JohanW 0 #26 January 11, 2010 Quote Quote .. The Silhouette is the best kept secret in skydiving .. .. But I'll add that the Pulse is possibly the next gen Silhouette .. Or would it be more appropriate to describe the Pulse as the next canopy after the Silhouette, in terms of progression? I've had it explained to me that with the Pulse, PD filled the gap between the Silhouette and the Stiletto, as they did with the Sabre 2 between the Silhouette and the Katana. Quote If you have the opportunity to demo a Pulse, it might be a good thing. Always sound advice. Demo, demo, demo. Quote .. But everyone I know who has tried them say that Silhouettes and Pulses are easy to pack even when brand new. No experience with the Pulse, but almost 500 jumps on varying sizes of Silhouettes. Yes, it is PD's best kept secret (except, I'm happy to hear, on OP's DZ, apparently). I (heart) Silhouettes. My most recent Silhouette jump was on a 240, wingload .9. I was amazed *again*. (OK, it said Navigator on the label. Same canopy.) But I have limited jumps on Pilots, and I liked them as well. I never had real problems packing parachutes, and a lot of my early (first, well, 500 or so OP: all of the above are very good canopies. Demo all of them, in your current size, find out which one *you* like best. Then demo a size smaller, and see if you like that better. You may, you may not.Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #27 January 11, 2010 Quote In his opinion, it is the best canopy in the world. No such a thing. Every canopy is built for a purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,046 #28 January 12, 2010 Hi paul, Quote There have been reserves available that use ZP. They were not great successes. Not too long after Free-Flight came out with their Amigo line of reserves i was just BS'ing with Gary Douris about canopies, etc. I asked him if he had given any thought to a Z/P reserve canopy. He darn near exploded and said that he would never produce such a canopy and that they had no place in sport jumping. Just in case you wanted to know . . . JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #29 January 12, 2010 >I just know that f-111 wears out quicker than zp hence, I dont want >any part of my canopy made of the stuff. No, it really doesn't. It does become more porous, but there are places in your canopy (i.e. the ribs) where porosity is a good thing. That's why the ribs are full of holes. >I just prefere to spend MY money on something that is proven to last >for a couple thousand jumps. Both regular ZP canopies and hybrids can last for a couple thousand jumps assuming regular maintenance, line changes and good care. Hybrids are not life-limited by non-ZP porosity changes, since they use ZP in areas where porosity is a factor (i.e. the topskin.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #30 January 12, 2010 QuoteQuote In his opinion, it is the best canopy in the world. No such a thing. Every canopy is built for a purpose. Goodness, you are difficult to please. The Silhouette has its purpose. My friend has his purpose. The two purposes coincide. In the experience of my friend, the Silhouette meets or exceeds these purposes. Therefore, it is my friends considered opinion that he has found the best canopy in the world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #31 January 12, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteIn his opinion, it is the best canopy in the world. Your mileage may vary. And in the end that is all that really matters. To the rest of you who would question "MY" decisions, Its "MY" money. Its "MY" canopy. Ive told you why I wont buy a hybrid. It is the same reason I wont buy an origional PD (the canopy not every canopy from PD). The only f-111 canopy I have or will ever puchase is a reserve. That may also be going away as soon as a designer comes up with a zp or zpx reserve. At the end of the day though, its "MY" money, "MY" canopy and "MY" choice and I really dont have to explain myself to anybody because it, in no way, affects anyone other than me. Done with this thread. First off, try to calm down a bit. Nobody attacked you. I never said that you weren't completely entitled to buy what you wanted for your reasons. You absolutely are. Still, your statement about non-ZP fabrics was one particular extreme view that was presented as fact. A little balance was in order, if only to give the original poster a full answer to his question. He deserves that, don't you think? The fact that your reserve is still made of a non-ZP fabric clearly illustrates that non-ZP fabrics actually out perform ZP fabrics in certain areas. There have been reserves available that use ZP. They were not great successes. If ZP was the end-all parachute fabric, it would be used in reserves. But it is not, and thinking of it that way just isn't quite correct. Sorry Paul. I was out of line plain and simple. I wrote that post while under extreme anxiety from something else and basically took it out on everyone. Ill try to manage my temper a bit better in the future. BTW, what is it about zp that makes it no good for reserves?Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #32 January 12, 2010 It's more difficult to pack, it rips and tears more catastrophically than ZP and it sticks together when left packed for prolonged periods of time. Off the top of my head. (Do a search? ) Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #33 January 12, 2010 Yep,,,ZP is nice,,,but its a one trick pony,,,im excited for the growth of the next generation of fabrics to come....smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #34 January 12, 2010 and i'm sure thats why Bill Booth jumps one... smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #35 January 13, 2010 Quote and i'm sure thats why Bill Booth jumps one... Container: Vector III Main: Silhouette 190 ft² (1.00 lbs/ft²) Reserve: PD Reserve 176 ft² (1.08 lbs/ft²) AAD: Cypres SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #36 January 13, 2010 See.... smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver604 0 #37 January 13, 2010 i jump a Sil 230, it had 50 jumps in it when I bought it, easy to pack, forgiving and stable for when i screw something up, flaring and landing as was pointed out in an earlier posting is a little more critical,. but I am getting really nice landings even in no wind. Its fast enough and responsive enough for me, my exit weight is about 235 pounds,,, Honestly I am very comfortable flying this canopy, I don't feel the need to be extra careful, I can concentrate on the jump and continue learning canopy skills. I can't see myself using another canopy for at least another 2-3 years. I'd recommend it as a beginner canopy to any new jumper. "The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #38 January 14, 2010 QuoteI don't feel the need to be extra careful, You should always feel the need to be extra careful. Not being extra careful is called complacency. And that my friend will get you hurt. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver604 0 #39 January 14, 2010 let me reword that, I can comfortably fly the canopy without being afraid the canopy is beyond current my current skill level. If that makes sense. Edited to add, its not like the canopy is a stilleto or a heatwave or any other HP canopy that I know will burn my butt due to my lack of experience and yeah I'm actually really careful in this sport "The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pinkfairy 0 #40 January 16, 2010 I used to own a Silhouette 150 and put 100 jumps on it, and I have flown Pilots 132 and 124 for my last 200 jumps. I can't compare the canopies directly, as I haven't flown the same sizes of them, but I love my Pilots, and the Silhouette is also a great canopy. They both have very good, comfortable on heading openings, you don't have to think too much about the opening, it wants to go forward and straight, which is really useful when you do formations. The Pilot has a slightly longer snivel than the Silhouette, I prefer the Pilot openings. They are both rigged very flatly, they are easy to fly in from long spots, and they hardly sink through in flat turns. They are both easy to land, the flare is easy to figure out, but I can't really compare them, my Pilot landings have been much better than my Silhouette landings, but that's probably because of experience and wingloading. I think you'd be happy with any of those canopies. About sizing and wingloading of the Silhouette: I've got a couple of friends who tried jumping the Silhouette with more than the recommended wingloading, and got hard openings, so I'd stay within the limits recommended by the manufacturer. Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet. I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #41 January 16, 2010 I have flown both, in many different sizes. I think if you are a beginner, the biggest difference you will see is the easiness of packing a Silhouette - it gives you the F111-like awesomeness of packing while maintaining the ZP-like glide and responsiveness. Personally, whenever I can, I try to put beginner jumpers on the Silhouette.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forteenerdaddy 0 #42 January 17, 2010 Hi, I'm also 62yo, and would load the Silhouette 210 @ 1.0. Jumped a 190 with less than 100 jumps. Now at 300 jumps, jump a Pilot-188 ZPX. It really feels like jumping a canopy larger than 200! Have not the foggiest why... ZPX does pack a size smaller too. Mine fits in a Wings W-13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
verticalflier 0 #43 January 17, 2010 QuoteHi, I'm also 62yo, and would load the Silhouette 210 @ 1.0. Jumped a 190 with less than 100 jumps. Now at 300 jumps, jump a Pilot-188 ZPX. It really feels like jumping a canopy larger than 200! Have not the foggiest why... ZPX does pack a size smaller too. Mine fits in a Wings W-13 Pilot 188 corresponds to PD 200+sf canopy that is why it feels like flying a bigger wing, if you are used to PD sizes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #44 January 18, 2010 The Silhouette "flies small" - a Sil 170 feels like, say, a Sabre 1 150. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #45 January 18, 2010 Yeah I was surprised how nimble and responsive the silhouette was when I borrowed a 135 for a while. It was quite a bit more touchy than my sabre2 135, even though it flew a bit slower. The brake lines on that one were too short which probably contributed, but just minor corrections on final could get the thing swinging from side to side. A little overreaction down low could easily get someone into trouble... which was actually exactly how i was able to borrow it. The owner didn't need it while recovering from an avoidance-turn-induced pulverized pelvis. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
