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Aerodyne Icon I5 (Perfect container for newbies)?

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OK, so a while ago we did a thread called Micron V308, is it the perfect container for a experienced jumper. That container would take a optimum 143 reserve and a safire 129 main and go all the way down to a VX99, or up to a crossfire 129. Meaning you could keep this conainer for ever without needing a new one.

I have always told newbies wanting to buy a brand new rig with a 190 in it, that they should wait until being on a 170 so they can get good life from it before needing to sell it, However, Is the Icon I5 the perfect first container if buying a container brand new as a first rig?

Here is why...

You buy an Icon I5. It takes 150-175 canopies.
Then you buy a Pilot ZPX 188 and it will pack smaller, so it will fit in the I5. (100 Jumps on average)

Then once you are finished with the 188, you buy a Pilot standard ZP 168 for the perfect fit. (200 jumps on average?)

Then you buy the Pilot standard 150 ZP for a nice fit. (300 jumps average?)

Then seein the Pilot 150 zp packs larger than the PD and Icarus mains, i think cause it is measured from the bottom skin, that should mean if you purchased a Sabre 2 135 or eiher a custom made size by icarus of a safire 2 139 or 135, maybe even 129, then going by logic that should fit. (500 jumps)

So if a Pilot 150 packs like a safire 139 or 135 and a Sabre 135 then it should fit the icon I5.

meaning you get four downsizes out of the custom made for you brand new harness and could get an average of around 1100 jumps on the container and the reserve before you needed to or wanted to think about selling it and buying a container to take canopies that are smaller than a 135. Hence, this being the moment to then buy the V308, menaing two rigs to see you through your entire skydiving days.

People say by a second hand rig first, and i agre if you are starting on a 190 canopy. But with the Icon I5 and the ZPX it seems to me that it might be more financially viable to get that custom made Icon I5 when you buy your first rig (get new or second hand canopies, aad etc, whatever) and you have the perfect comfort and the perfect fit to your body and you have the ability to get 1100 jumps out of it downsizing at an average pace making this the perfect container to buy brand new custom made.


Does this make sense? IS the logic correct? Is this the perfect container to buy if you are buying a brand new rig as your first rig? Has ZPX made that much of a difference? I mean 4 downsizes out of a single container in increments of 20sqft per downsize is a huge deal! I never looked at this container like this before but I am dealing with a customer who was asking the right quesions to get me really thinking about it.

or am i wrong somewhere and all excited over nothing? The reason this works specifically with the Icon is because Aerodyne make their cnaopies fit their containers, so with the Aerodyne canopies packing a bit larger and their ZPX packing a bit smaller it works perfect for three downsizes, then throw in a Icarus or PD canopy to get the 4th downsize.

Maybe if i went to school I might have gotten a real paying job. If only i was 15 again and enjoyed education. I would be a genius..........;)


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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The reason this works specifically with the Icon is because Aerodyne make their cnaopies fit their containers, so with the Aerodyne canopies packing a bit larger and their ZPX packing a bit smaller it works perfect for three downsizes, then throw in a Icarus or PD canopy to get the 4th downsize.

Quote



Playing with different fabrics and different types of canopies seems to work for any H&C system on the market

I will give you an example with my rig (Mirage G4 MXS 1/2)

1...Pulse 135(tight) Pilot 132 ZPX( I don't know,but I think will fit and will be tight)
2...Sabre 2 120 (tight)
3...Sabre 2 107 (medium)
4...Crossfire 2 99(loose)
5...XAOS 27 88(medium)
6...JVX (hybrid) 69 (tight)

So I think I will keep this rig for the next few thousand jumps.

Blue skies

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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Well, I'm packing Safire2 139 into I5 and although not perfect it packs fine - there's a proper tension on a closing loop, the rig is not too soft, and it packs easier :P (I don't have to squeeze out every air "bubble" out of the canopy, like I did with Pilot168). I guess a Pilot 140 would be even better fit than Safire, due to it's thicker fabric. I wouldn't try to put something smaller there though (unless some hybrid/full sail or crossbraced canopy).


cheers,
Bart ;)

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Yeah that is comparable to the V308. Whole different thread. The idea of this thread was to get people coming back at me with combinations with other containers for the newbie jumper. I.e. 190 as a starting canopy.

What you have posted would go well in the V308 container thread as it is the more experienced side of the scale.

G4 is an awesome system.


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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Thanks, I was looking to hear form someone oing what you are doing. So a Safire 139 is the smallest safire you would suggest then for the I5?

So if the Pilot 140 would fit, then that is a Pilot zpx 188, a Pilot 168, then 150, then a 140. Even though Aeroyne only say 150-175, it still in reality can go down 4 sizes in the newbie stage f things.

A newbie buying a I5 then would get 4 downsizes as I was originally suggesting?

Yes, I know many other containers would work but with Aerodyne, it is Aeroyne canopies just sized perfectly for it by the sounds of it.

I mean, I dont know any other canopy manufacturer that can fit 4 different stock sized canopies into a single container.... but thats what this thread is for.....to motivate people to find out ;)


Newbie sizing only though please. It is simple to find a container that will take a 170 down but alot of noobs want to buy new gear jumping a 190 and i dont think it is a good idea as they want get value for money on the new gear, most of them wont anyway, but with combinations like this, it seems they will.


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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BTW. I dont think you can by JVX hybrids anymore can you? or are we talking F1-11 and ZP? I was under the impression the sail material is no longer available.



I don't know if I still can buy JVX (ZP & Sail hybrid),but I'm sure that I can't buy JVX ( low porosity & ZP hybrid);)


I got your point with the rig size example. And this may work until in your gear store come somebody with small to average body frame. Then Icon I5 will be way too big.
Just think about something else:P
You have a customer 160-165 cm and 45-55 kilos.
In this case the overall length of the rig is important. I don't know how long is I5,but I think is about 19-20 inches.Can you see my point;)
I'm talking from personal experience. It's really damn hard to find short rigs

Blue skies
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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Thanks, I was looking to hear form someone oing what you are doing. So a Safire 139 is the smallest safire you would suggest then for the I5?


Yep. But then again, I haven't tried putting anything smaller there.
IMO, going smaller may require shortening closing loop, to the point, where the grommets lineup on top of each other when the container is closed. I would say that packing 140/139 in I5 is still safe - anything smaller is experimental. Send me a safire 129, and I can check it for you :P

cheers,
Bart ;)

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A lot of the shorter people @ Teuge have or have had Atoms for a first (or 2nd...) rig. An Atom 00 L1 or L2 (or shortened L3) is quite popular as it will hold a hybrid 170 (or very old sabre 1 , spectre etc) down to a ZP 120. Only problem there is the 126/128 sqft reserve. Of course we do see Atoms 00 with bigger reserves like Mayday 156 sqft, Techno 158, PD-R143 stuffed in there sometimes, but that seems to me an all around bad idea (also Kees says it is, so there!).

I'd think a Mirage in general would work quite well for smaller people because the rig is fatter rather than longer, but not many of those around 2nd hand and brand new they are quite expensive.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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I recently got the Icon I5 and a Pilot 168 ZPX. Trust me, it is a tight fit in the I5 size container already, especially when the ZPX fabric is still very new. I don't think you could pack a 190 in there.


Icon I5 was built for Pilot 168ZP that was years b before ZPX. I will easily pack Pilot 168ZPX in I3 that is 2 containers sizes down from yours, so I am not getting the part that 168zpx is a tight fit in I5:S we did demo our Icon I5 and packed Pilot 210ZPX in it several times already.
When I have a moment I will post pictures of packing Pilot 188ZPX in I3, yes in I3 that was supposed to fit only Pilot 132ZP ;)

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A lot of the shorter people @ Teuge have or have had Atoms for a first (or 2nd...) rig. An Atom 00 L1 or L2 (or shortened L3) is quite popular as it will hold a hybrid 170 (or very old sabre 1 , spectre etc) down to a ZP 120. Only problem there is the 126/128 sqft reserve. Of course we do see Atoms 00 with bigger reserves like Mayday 156 sqft, Techno 158, PD-R143 stuffed in there sometimes, but that seems to me an all around bad idea (also Kees says it is, so there!).

Weird. I have an Atom single 0 L3 (one size larger), in which I have packed .. a 170 (hybrid), a 150, a 135, a 120 (7-cell) and a 111 (XB). All of which fit nicely (the 170 was tight, but I had a *very* short loop even then); I have decent loop tension on even the smaller canopies. And my rigger doesn't complain about the reserve, which would be .. a Techno 155 (not 158).

Newer Atoms have multiple attachment points for the loop, and in this way allow for (even?) more sizes to be packed in it while still having normal tension on the loop and the main flaps. However, I would advise against ordering a new Atom. Shame, really, they are very nice containers.
Johan.
I am. I think.

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Are you sure you have an I-5? A Pilot 168 ZP packs easily into my I-5. I'm sure a 188 would go in there with not too much trouble.


It probably depends on packing technique; yours must be better than mine. I think I would have a hard time packing a (non-ZPX) 188 into an I-5. I've packed a Pilot 168 ZP in one about 300 times, and am still struggling in low humidity.

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I am looking for a rig right now and considering different options. I am about 175 exit weight and almost 6' so pretty close to the average jumper.

I want a rig that would last me as long as possible even maybe for the rest of my skydiving career! I know I want to do wingsuit jums, not only that but a lot of them for sure, and as soon as I feel safe doing so (I know the 200 jumps mark and actually plan on waiting longer than that).

I know I'll want a docile and easy canopy for that and with a reasonable wing loading. I am not a swooper at heart so a wingload of 1.3:1 should be fine. So my smallest canopy for WS would be a 135. Thats the bottom part of my main canopy range. I would only see myself going smaller if I got into hardcore swooping and I seriously doubt it :) And then I'd surely want one of those tiny V306 and down B|

I will be most likely jumping a 190 after I graduate (jumping a 220 now and stood up all landings on it in no wind conditions) so I can downsize safely to a 1:1 170 while I wait for my rig to be done. So 170 main is the upper part of my main canopy range.

Turns out the Micron V310 might be a solid option for a long-term beginner rig. You can easily fit a Pulse/Pilot ZPX 170 with an Optimum 160 in there. I'll make sure I jump the optimum 160 as a main before I actually start using the rig and not rental stuff anymore, so I can feel confident landing it :P

I can then safely downsize to 135 for a 1.3:1 wl while keeping a 160 reserve and keep my custom new first rig for a loooong time.

So using the right type of canopy you can fit in the V310:
170, 150, 135 mains. I know that's one less than the I5 but you get a smaller rig that could very well be the only one you need to buy.

Trick is to do your first downsize on rental stuff while your rig gets made :)

Opinions? :$
"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
Dudeist Skydiver #9

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Turns out the Micron V310 might be a solid option for a long-term beginner rig. You can easily fit a Pulse/Pilot ZPX 170 with an Optimum 160 in there.



You still can't have Optimum 160 as a reserve. Think about something else. You are from France,so you can call Basik Air Concept and ask them about their X-Fast reserve. Maybe they have a demo program.
Or you can try "Speed 2000" from Paratec.

Good luck;)
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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Actually I'm in Tahiti so the US is much closer to me and california is where I jump. But yes I am also looking into Basik's rigs and canopies :)

Also the V310 should fit a PD R 143 in a standard fitting, which is the same pack volume as an Optimum 160 from what I've read. Do you have first hand experience with a Optimum 160 not fitting in a V310, I'd be bummed if that's so B|

Edit: thx for clearing up the fact that the 160 and up Optimum are not TSO certified yet, let's hope they get it soooon :)
"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
Dudeist Skydiver #9

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I just became the Australian Distributor for Paratec, so we could put a Speed 170 into the V310. Rather than a optimum 160 which I would consider imaginary at the moment after waiting a year for ours to arrive.

the speed 170 does fit the V310 after I have checked that with head rigger at UPT.


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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I recently got the Icon I5 and a Pilot 168 ZPX. Trust me, it is a thight fit in the I5 size container already, especially when the ZPX fabric is still very new. I don't think you could pack a 190 in there.



After reading this thread earlier today (excellent, btw) I called aerodyne and they said a 188 ZPX fits perfectly in the I5 and a 210 ZPX is tight. That was from the source.

That said, she made it very clear that in dry heat and higher elevations, YMMV, maybe by a lot.

Now we get into packing skills, familiarity with equipment, location, age of respective pieces, etc.

I am not doubting the veracity of your comments as much as I am saying there are a lot of variables.

I am fortunate in that I live in the midwest, at sea level, and it is plenty humid most of the time.

My question is will a 176 Optimum fit into the I5. It should given that I was told a Smart 175 will.

Anybody?
"Think like a man of action; act like a man of thought." -Henri L.
Bergson

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My question is will a 176 Optimum fit into the I5. It should given that I was told a Smart 175 will.

Anybody?



The 176 Optimum packs smaller than the PDR-160. I dont know what the Smart 175 packs like... Maybe ask Aerodyne if the PDR-160 will fit?

I could do it for you, but teach a man to fish.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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