jonnyhl 0 #1 June 20, 2008 Just thinking over something that happening at WFFC 2006. I paid for a Pitts Bi-Plane jump with an acrobatic display on the way up. During the acrobatics I was very aware of the g forces pushing me back into the seat (its a hard metal seat). After the jump and photo I discovered that my reserve pin had been bent, probably not enough to prevent me pulling my reserve but bent significantly none the less. It most certainly happened during the acrobatics when I was forced into the seat. I know this because Im a BPA member and I check, then I get my pin checked (amongst other things) before every jump. I was never warned or briefed on anything like this potentially happening. Perhaps it is the risk you take when doing a speciality jump? Perhaps I should have been made aware of the situation? It was a 2 month old wings container. I leave it for your discussion/information! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #2 June 20, 2008 Aerobatic pilots sometimes get the ripcord pin bent on their pilot emergency parachute too. I can't say that what happened is anyone's fault. If it happened to many people (and they were told), the folks working with the aircraft crew would know to warn people. It seems like over the years, the subtle design knowledge that rig manufacturers used to know has been lost, that is, "what happens to my rig when the user leans against something really hard?" Rigs used to be designed with enough room in the container to have the pilot chute and ripcord pin area "sunk in" from the rest of the container (which protected it), but now they all seem to be bulged out in that area because people are trying to design such tight rigs. It doesn't seem to happen to pilot emergency parachutes as much because they are designed to be soft and have some "give" in all areas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #3 June 20, 2008 The cockpit opening in a Pitts is really small. It was not designed with a skydiving rig in mind. There is a good chance you did it while getting in the seat or while leaving the plane. Flat pressure from the seat back is not likely to bend the pin. But striking the rim of the cockpit would do it. As for being informed, the pilot probably knows less about your rig than you do about his airplane. Take responsibility for your own safety. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #4 June 20, 2008 Wasn't there a big recall of a reserve pins batch around two years ago due to less bend resistance as usual as well? Might it have been an affected one?The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #5 June 20, 2008 QuoteWasn't there a big recall of a reserve pins batch around two years ago due to less bend resistance as usual as well? Might it have been an affected one? That dates back to 2003, and a problem with ripcord pins breaking, which was not good. When a pin is placed under stress it can either bend or break. Pins should have sufficient elasticity to bend so they don’t break. Too much bend, however, is also not good. I have attached the Capewell Product Service Bulletin that explains the problem and the means of testing a pin. Since the Capewell problem was breaking pins, I don’t think this ripcord is part of that issue. However, the jumper should discuss the issue and the cause with his rigger, and if the rigger thinks the ripcord is too soft, he should get in touch with the manufacturer. In all likelihood the pin bent under expected field conditions and just needs to be replaced, but doesn’t reflect a manufacturing defect. I’ll caution that I can’t assure that without having seen the ripcord, so it should still be shared with a rigger. The rest of the advice on this thread is also good. Pins do get bent in the field, and we should always be on the lookout for any safety critical component that shows unusual wear. That’s the kind of stuff we should be looking at in our pre-first jump of the day pin check. Likewise, we should be aware of how our gear is being handled, and should be extra vigilant when we are trying new things.Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #6 June 21, 2008 I had a wings container and was forever getting people to check the pin for me. Maybe it was just paranoia. Now I have an old skool Teardrop Classic so the reserve pin is against my back. I would imagine its almost impossible to get damaged in that location. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sid 1 #7 June 23, 2008 Quote I had a wings container and was forever getting people to check the pin for me. Maybe it was just paranoia. Now I have an old skool Teardrop Classic so the reserve pin is against my back. I would imagine its almost impossible to get damaged in that location. I have to be careful what I say here because I'm listed as a manufacturer contact for Jump Shack, but the main reason I decided to consult for them was that when researching gear in my early jump days the location of the Racer (and Teardrop) pins between the jumper's back and the rig seemed the most obvious place. A pin on the outside of the rig seemed, to me, to be very vulnerable to unusual forces as well as creating some damage to the flaps after a lot of pressure from laying on the floor of the airplane, pressing it against the back of a plane (depending on what aircraft is in use) as well as allowing for the occasional premature reserve deployment in the plane (eh Bill? ) . It really sounds like the aerobatics created enough force between your body and the seat to bend the pin (although you would have had to put a SIGNIFICANT bend in it to prevent you pulling, it could certainly have weakened the strength of the pin and should have been replaced immediately upon discovery). If your pin is on the outside of the container make sure that it is seated properly prior to every jump (a good pin check) and don't slide around in the plane. It all boils down to being aware of the rig on your back and treating it as though it could save your life..... because guess what? It's your only chance once you leave the door.... Pete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #8 June 23, 2008 Rigs used to be designed with enough room in the container to have the pilot chute and ripcord pin area "sunk in" from the rest of the container (which protected it), but now they all seem to be bulged out in that area because people are trying to design such tight rigs. It doesn't seem to happen to pilot emergency parachutes as much because they are designed to be soft and have some "give" in all areas. ........................................................................ Agreed! I have packed more than a thousand pilot emergency parachutes and the incidence of bent pins is in the one percent range .... insignifcant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites