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eightate8at8

From a Sabre 150 to Stiletto 150..

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Try a 170? No thank you. I jumped a 170 after my 4th jump on AFF. I can handle a 150 perfectly, it's just the different canopies and their characteristics I'm trying to learn about. Yes, my instructors are ok with this, yes I talked to them when purchasing my rig. So if you don't know the situation, don't comment thinking you know everything? In addition, my instructors wouldn't have put me on a 150 finishing my aff.

Thanks for those with positive comments.

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The biggest reason I post asking questions is simply because I don't know all the canopies and their flight characteristics. I do as much reading and research as I can but that doesn't suffice.

I take your guys' advice, trust me; I'm not going to be jumping to a nitro or stiletto 150. Why did I ask in the first place? Because I don't know the canopies! I'm just trying to get all the information I can.

And for whoever mentioned having trouble getting the 155 in my container, it's been discussed that it's south african material and packs like a 170.

So let's look at some options;

Safire 1/2
Silhouette
Pilot
Sabre 1/2

?

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The biggest reason I post asking questions is simply because I don't know all the canopies and their flight characteristics. I do as much reading and research as I can but that doesn't suffice.



There is a gear section on here that reviews all canopies made and their flight characteristics. I would suggest going there first, then post additional questions you have. If you looked at a Stiletto you would know immediately it is not the canopy for a novice.

Description:
Since its release, the Stiletto has become the most sought after high performance "elliptical" nine cell canopy in the world. Whether it's the soft openings, responsiveness, extremely fast rate of turn, flat glide, or incredible landing capabilities, the Stiletto is the canopy of choice for those pilots who have taken the time (and jumps) to hone their piloting skill.


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I take your guys' advice



I would reconsider not taking advice from complete strangers...
Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

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Pluses & minuses of each, from my point of view (I've jumped all but the Safire 2 at least once, but I'm no expert).

Safire 1: its size is actually not measured the same as PD -- a stated 149 has as much fabric over you as a 140 or so. I found it very hard to get a good flare on low-wind days. I did have one for a couple hundred jumps. There is a mod that can be done to the brake lines that's supposed to improve the flare.

Safire 2: have no experience; people speak highly of it.

Silhouette: part lo-po, part z-po. Big advantage there is that it will pack easier, which will encourage you to pack for yourself. Nice flyer, not exciting.

Pilot: I have a Pilot 150 now, and it's a delightful canopy. Even I can surf it sometimes (and I don't really try to). The fabric is slippery if it's new, so I'd make darn good and sure that the particular canopy you were looking at actually fit in your container.

Sabre 1: very inexpensive, so you can afford to jump more. Predictable, can open hard (or what some think of as hard) if not packed with some care. But it's been a workhorse for years, and pretty much does exactly what you ask. When it came out, it was considered to be appropriate for experienced jumpers. It's no Navigator.

Sabre 2: Lots of people like them. Good flare, and it apparently has a lot of behaviors of higher-performance canopies (e.g. long recovery arc) that are good training if you want to swoop. I didn't like it myself -- the opening was too slow, it had closed end cells, and I really didn't like the way it responded overall. I like something that feels crisper.

What do you want out of a canopy? If I were advising you, I'd suggest something you can pack yourself, and something that you can jump for a couple hundred jumps. If it's too hard to get in the container, you'll be jonesing to downsize so it's easier to pack. And you'll learn more under a canopy whose capabilities you can really explore, rather than one that you have to be very conservative on.

Good luck either way. And yeah, if you don't know what a canopy is like, the best way is it ask.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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I learnt to swoop with a chuteshop [SA]ZP 150 pre EXE.
I felt it was slightly steeper trimmed [ more ground hungry in full flight ] copy of a PD sabre i.e it's a square and it has 9cells.[SA Coed 170 prior to that]

My point is the longer you hold on to a canopy the more skills you will acquire in time and these skills are what you take with you to the next canopy you jump.

Downsizing or changing planform too quickly will ultimately slow down Canopy skill learning progression because an intimidating environment doesn't make a good learning environment.

i've put in excess of 600 jumps on my present canopy and still, i feel i don't need something else yet [another 600 jumps might do it, maybe more. ;)], even though i'm cautiously confident i could land a smaller size/type canopy.

As for flight characteristics read up on basic aerodynamics and watch youtube.

.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

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About the safire 1, people will tell you it hasnt got good flare but it just takes a little while to dial it in i almost sold mine after a few jumps because i just couldnt get it but decided to keep trying and now have found the sweet spot and love it.

The only other from your list i've jumped is the safire 2 and really liked it but other than 8 jumps on a spectre i didnt have anything "semi elliptical" to compare it to.

Just my 2p

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4. Throw yourself on the mercy of the recommended rigger. Promise lots of adult beverages after the beer light goes on.
5. Trust this rigger... stop surfing the net for products and advice for a matter that LITERALLY IS OF LIFE AND DEATH IMPORTANCE.
6. Follow the advice you get from this rigger.

***************************************

I'm afraid I'll have to take issue with your advice.

It appears you assume that riggers are the "all seeing - all knowing - wealth of knowledge experts of canopy choice."

While I agree that there are some who fit in to that catagory, I know at least four times as many that do not.

I personally know and am friends with two riggers who run a very well known loft at one of the largest DZs in the country. One of them has not jumped in more than five years and when he did was mediocre, at best, with his canopy skills.

The other makes about 30 jumps a year and seldom stands up his landings. He would however be more than willing to give canopy advice because he has a massive need to appear relevant.

Since they are the primary riggers on this DZ they are the default when someone queries "which rigger should I ask about my gear questions?"

I would trust these guys with my gear (and have) because in my opinion they rank up with the top riggers but I would never ask their advice on a main canopy choice or flight.

Your suggestion that this kid take advice from a rigger whom you don't know, while attempting to be helpful could actually be quite counter-productive.

Now I'm not trying to insult you or your advice, and I hope you don't take it that way. I believe you are tryiing to be helpful. But I think we need to be careful in giving blanket advice and suggestions.

The fact is: not all riggers, instructors or even DZOs have the high level of knowledge or skills as some would like to believe.
Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

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Dude listen to what everyone is saying. Stay on the sabre for a while. I progressed way too fast, and paid an expensive price, AND I was getting canopy coaching. Went from a sabre150 to a samurai 150 at 171 jumps. Made 34 kick ass landings on it 30 of them doing shallow 90 degree carves....the 35th landing really really sucked ass. I am now back on a sabre170 loaded at 1.26 and saving for a pilot 168.
Be smart the sky is always going to be there. Titanium is expensive, and freezes in the winter, and your internal organs will thank you for waiting to move to an elliptical. Shit happens a lot faster on one, and if your close to the ground. It is gonna hurt you.

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Dude listen to what everyone is saying. Stay on the sabre for a while. I progressed way too fast, and paid an expensive price, AND I was getting canopy coaching. Went from a sabre150 to a samurai 150 at 171 jumps. Made 34 kick ass landings on it 30 of them doing shallow 90 degree carves....the 35th landing really really sucked ass. I am now back on a sabre170 loaded at 1.26 and saving for a pilot 168.
Be smart the sky is always going to be there. Titanium is expensive, and freezes in the winter, and your internal organs will thank you for waiting to move to an elliptical. Shit happens a lot faster on one, and if your close to the ground. It is gonna hurt you.



My current plan is to move from my SA 155 to a Sabre1 150.. Not to anything else.

Yes, I plan to stay on the Sabre 150 for a lenghty.

And no, no incidents here.

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Good plan.. but whats wrong with SA 155.. As stated i've had two SA made canopies admittedly CoeD170 was a black art;)



I just feel like grabbing the PD Sabre and devoting time with that is a better match than this unknown SA 155 ha. In addition, it'll pack way better which is always a plus:D. Maybe better resale value? I'm sure there's a few more decent reasons

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Alright so maybe you're a proud chute shop owner, you list all the pros to keeping it, but would there be any cons to trading it for the sabre 150?

I understand you and your points, and like I said I'll stay on the Sabre for a while, but are there any negatives to making the switch? I can't really think of any

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You're right in what you are saying about there are no negatives in trading to a PD Sabre but no positives either you simply wont gain anything other than a PD label and you can get one of those when you're ready for something different.
.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

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Asking questions is good, you're not an idiot for asking. For the canopies you have listed, I've flown a sabre 1, and Pilot. At the same loading, I found the Pilot to have lighter toggle pressure, and it was a dream to fly. I love my Sabre, except for off heading openings.
What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

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My current plan is to move from my SA 155 to a Sabre1 150.. Not to anything else.


I think thats a pretty good choice. I have a sabre1 loaded at 1:1 and it is awesome. Easiest landings I have ever done and is responsive and fast for a beginner. I got to talking to the video flyer where I jump about how he was flying and some of the things he was doing so I could get some tips on how to learn more about flying and my canopy. I was impressed to find he jumps a sabre1 at 1.1 loading but with his experience the way he flies it makes it look like it must be smaller and more high performance. Its how you fly it that really matters not that its small and hp.

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If a Sabre2 150 @ 1.0 is boring at 30 jumps you're definitely not flying the canopy properly.

I'm closing in on 200 jumps on my Sabre2 170 @ 1.0 and it's still an absolute blast, I got so much more to learn, it's still throwing me curveballs. When you change your mindset, wanting to REALLY learn about flying/maxing out your canopy, you will discover a whole new world under your wing after you deploy.

Slow down, you got all types of fun stuff ahead of you... turning your first points, learning to freefly, getting into wingsuits, doing camera, doing CF... whatever.

You can't do all those fun disciplines in freefall if you break yourself under canopy.

As someone mentioned earlier, 500 jumps is the guideline for the Stiletto, completely out of the question.

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no offense but u come off pretty cocky. It takes at least 29 jumps to KNOW any canopy; IF one is an experienced skydiver.

I don't consider myself "experienced" at this point, what about yourself?

Good luck on your journey! ;)

"Tell ya the truth, I don't think this is a brains kind of operation."

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Thanks for the advice guys.

I don't want to seem cocky, I don't mean to be nor am I, I guess I just am trying to explain that I know I am capable of handling more. It's hard to put this but basically I'm trying to find the safe canopy that will allow me to progess quite a bit. Like I said, hard to explain.. but I appreciate all the input

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Thanks for the advice guys.

I don't want to seem cocky, I don't mean to be nor am I, I guess I just am trying to explain that I know I am capable of handling more.



And nobody here means to seem overbearing, but you need to realise that you sound exactly like dozens of other novice jumpers who are convinced of their 'mad skills' and don't want to be held back by old fuddy duddies who only have a couple of decades in the sport...

Unfortunatey while we keep jumping, decade after decade, history shows that the vast majority of those who think they're better than they are end up hurt, or dead...
and whether you believe it or not, this is you at the moment. You don't know how good you are. You have no idea how capable you are with only 30 jumps under your belt.

Like the majority of gung-ho newbies before you, you'll do what you want and find someone who gives you advice that you want to hear.
All I ask it that when you fuck yourself up, don't do it at my dropzone.

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I understand that for sure. But as a fact I know I am more into this sport than alotttt others. Not saying that I'm awesome or whatever, I'm just saying that I know from experience both at the dz's, and even from posts on here from others just starting that I am more knowledgeable. Which hey, means hopefully they'll break a leg before me right?B|

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