0
eightate8at8

From a Sabre 150 to Stiletto 150..

Recommended Posts

Look friend, I hate to break it to you, but you're not special. You're no different than most jumpers at the early stages; you're excited, enthusiastic, and dedicated to the idea of jumping as much as possible.

Is there a chance that you may grasp some concepts before others at your level? Of course there is.

Could you possibly have a deeper understanding of what's going on up there than guys with two or three times the jumps you have? Yes, you might.

I hate to break it you, but for starters, there are a lot of stupid skydivers. Let's face it, jumping out of a plane is not the smartest thing to do. Some of those that do are super smart, ultra informed masters of risk management, and some are just fat, dumb and happy.

Just because you may have found some jumpers you superoir to, those might be the dumb guys you're hanging with.

But the real point is this, all of your brain power, your will to succeed and your good intentions mean very little in the end. It all comes down to how you physically react to different situations. While there is a mental component to this sport, unless you can translate your thoughts into the correct actions at the correct time, bad things are going to happen.

When it comes to parachutes, the speed at which you can translate these thoughts, is the speed of the canopy you should be flying. A slower, more forgiving canopy will allow you time to think though what are doing, time to observe and learn from each situation, and allow you to land safely EVERY TIME.

There is no acceptable margin for landing safely. It must happen 100% of the time, all day, every day, every jump. Even a 1% margin for error means than in less than 100 jumps, you will not walk away from one of them. 0.1% only gives you 1000 jumps before you're in the hospital.

Are you making choices that will put your odds at better than 0.1% failure rate? If I was operating at that rate, I would have been in the hospital 5 times over. As it is, I have been there zero times, and plan to keep it that way.

I made my canopy choice by balancing out my skill and experience level against the speed of my canopy. What skill and experience do you have on your side? If the answer is 'not that much' then you need to rely on the canopy to do the work for you by picking a forgiving canopy and size.

I don't know you. I have no plans to go to Chicagoland and meet you. Ever. I don't even have any plans to jump anywhere more than an hour from my house, my job and kids keep me pretty well strapped down. I have nothing to gain or lose based on your success or failure, but still I take the time to write this in an attempt to help you see the way of the world. Consider that, along with the other points I've made.

One mistake is all takes. One half second lapse in judgment or delay in reacting. Do you really think you're that good that you aren't going to make one mistake? Ever?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Haha, k..

I'm not stupid. Thanks though!

Alot of you guys have great advice, how about you give it in a less-asshole of a way?

Every single one of you was in my same exact position, especially if you listen to yourself saying that all new jumpers are idiots. Just sayin.. we aren't all the same.

I apologize for trying to learn. Sorry my thread title had a mistake in it using the term stiletto..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Haha, k..



The post was not written in jest. That's the truth, and there's nothing funnny about it.

Quote

Every single one of you was in my same exact position,



We all started at jump one, that's true. I managed to live through 4999 more over the course of 15 years, and keeping that in mind, it looks like I may know a thing or two about how this all works.

Quote

listen to yourself saying that all new jumpers are idiots. Just sayin.. we aren't all the same



I don't say that. I said that some jumpers are idiots, regardless of their experience level. Every new jumper is ignorant, due to their lack of experience and exposure to the sport.

Some are smart enough to recognize this, and apporach things with this in mind. Others will ingore this, and proceed in another fashion. Thus far, you appear to be more of the latter.

Your posts don't indicate that you are trying to learn. They seem to be more of you tyring to validate the ideas you already have in your head.

Good luck and godspeed out there. It happens fast, be ready.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do us all a favour will you? Show this thread to your family and make them promise not to come on here after you kill yourself. Furthermore make them promise they will not get upset that we are here talking about how you were an arrogant fool just like the other ones who came on here and announced that they were so much better than average that the standards of prudence didn't apply to them. You see we will dredge this thread up when you kill yourself and the way it usually goes is the mother or the sister comes on these forums and calls us a bunch of heartless bastards. Sometimes they threaten to call their senator and shut our sport down, but the common thread is that they are really hurt, so do them the favour and tell them not to come hear after you bounce.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Read this, and follow the links, if you've got the patience

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3651327;search_string=nelson;#3651327


Quote



Remember when Ted Nelson was downsizing rapidly and landing aggressively; people were trying to get him to upsize and slow down; he was assuring everyone that he would be OK; and then, sadly, he was killed while landing his canopy?

Here's the thread in which Ted and other jumpers were having the debate in 2004. In 2006, it was resurrected when Ted initially was critically injured, and then tragically died of his injuries a few days later:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1106024#1106024

Here's the Incident thread reporting Ted's tragic landing, critical injury and death:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2347085#2347085


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I understand that for sure. But as a fact I know I am more into this sport than alotttt others. Not saying that I'm awesome or whatever, I'm just saying that I know from experience both at the dz's, and even from posts on here from others just starting that I am more knowledgeable. Which hey, means hopefully they'll break a leg before me right?B|




Yes, you ARE saying that you are awesome ( I can handle a 150 perfectly, ........) - which is both Arogant and Cocky.

If your profile jump numbers are correct (29) , you don't even know what you don;t know about handling a canopy - get a grip and FAST

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Do us all a favour will you? Show this thread to your family and make them promise not to come on here after you kill yourself. Furthermore make them promise they will not get upset that we are here talking about how you were an arrogant fool just like the other ones who came on here and announced that they were so much better than average that the standards of prudence didn't apply to them. You see we will dredge this thread up when you kill yourself and the way it usually goes is the mother or the sister comes on these forums and calls us a bunch of heartless bastards. Sometimes they threaten to call their senator and shut our sport down, but the common thread is that they are really hurt, so do them the favour and tell them not to come hear after you bounce.



Really? Just shut up

Quote

Yes, you ARE saying that you are awesome ( I can handle a 150 perfectly, ........) - which is both Arogant and Cocky.

If your profile jump numbers are correct (29) , you don't even know what you don;t know about handling a canopy - get a grip and FAST



I didn't mean it in the sense that I've mastered it, know it in and out, swoop with it.. I simply mean that for the time being, aka landing straight and nothing high performance, I can handle it. Meaning there is room for me to improve, which is what I want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


I didn't mean it in the sense that I've mastered it, know it in and out, swoop with it.. I simply mean that for the time being, aka landing straight and nothing high performance, I can handle it. Meaning there is room for me to improve, which is what I want.



If landing straight is all that you can do relatively good (in all conditions) then there's crap loads more to do and improve on with your current canopy. Or if you want to switch due to bad fitting into the container, don't go anything lower than 150 and nothing higher performance than the intermediate canopies like Pilot, Sabre2, Safire2, Pulse, Spectre, Storm etc..

When you think about it, it's really surprising how much you actually don't know of what you don't know (goes all too well for me).

P.S. Take my advice with a grain of salt.
"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Yes, you ARE saying that you are awesome ( I can handle a 150 perfectly, ........) - which is both Arogant and Cocky.

If your profile jump numbers are correct (29) , you don't even know what you don;t know about handling a canopy - get a grip and FAST



I didn't mean it in the sense that I've mastered it, know it in and out, swoop with it.. I simply mean that for the time being, aka landing straight and nothing high performance, I can handle it. Meaning there is room for me to improve, which is what I want.



I hate to sound like Dave and all the others but you simply do not know how to handle your canopy yet.

In time you will master those skills and then you will understand.

In the meantime if you carry on jumping something that is beyond your capabilities and with the attitude that you are displaying then you are dangerous to yourself and to others.

Over the years several very experienced jumpers have been killed by much lower experienced jumpers whilst under canopy.

As you have said - we were all inexperienced like you once - I certainly was and it's not until something goes wrong that you really think 'i should have listened to those guys' - but at which point it's too late as it's actually happening right there and then!

I know that you are not likely to listen to the advice that has been given, but to re-itterate Dave's point - in all likelihood most of us here will never meet you face to face but there has been something like 60 posts where concerned experienced (and some inexperienced) people are trying to advise you to SLOW DOWN.

Whether you take the advice or not is up to you - but in my seven plus years of jumping i have had two close calls where someone else has nearly killed me with their stupidity / lack of skills and judgement.

Please find a local decent jumper who has reasonable canopy skills and plenty of patience or go on as many canopy control courses as you can.

It will help you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Try a 170? No thank you. I jumped a 170 after my 4th jump on AFF. I can handle a 150 perfectly, it's just the different canopies and their characteristics I'm trying to learn about. Yes, my instructors are ok with this, yes I talked to them when purchasing my rig. So if you don't know the situation, don't comment thinking you know everything? In addition, my instructors wouldn't have put me on a 150 finishing my aff.

Thanks for those with positive comments.



Just because its not what you want to hear dosnt make it not positive

Getting / trying a 170 was a positive comment !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

In addition, my instructors wouldn't have put me on a 150 finishing my aff.



This snippet has me confused.
What does this comment mean? Why is the word 'instructors' italicised?
"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Just because you may have found some jumpers you superior to, those might be the dumb guys you're hanging with.

:DThat might have to be one of the dz.com quotes of the year.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I simply mean that for the time being, aka landing straight and nothing high performance, I can handle it.



Any jumper who thinks that is an acceptable rationale for jumping a canopy way over his skill set is a fool.

In my life experience, people who tend to be reckless in one area tend to be reckless in others. I hope I never have to be in a pattern with you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Actually, he is to some degree listening. He's dropped the idea of a higher-performance canopy (and might not have realized what a higher-performance canopy is). A couple of posts make that clear.

There's a difference between a freely-expressed ignorance and arrant bullheadedness. Ignorance can be fixed with information; bullheadedness generally takes an injury. I'm hoping for the first of those.

And, um, 8888888888? Sometimes asking a question in person is better than on dz.com. But you do get the wider range of opinions. If your skin is reasonably thick, there's a lot of good information in this thread.

Good luck. And I'd still recommend a canopy that fits as easily as possible into your container. Because then you won't spend all of your time packing it thinking about how much better life will be as soon as you downsize...

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Been following this one, biting my tongue (or would that be fingers), but it's time to be "a real dick about advice"
Sorry, kid, but you are a stupid, ignorant, arrogant, asshole. The fact that you are slightly less stupid or ignorant than some others you know is more than made for by your arrogance.
You will end up dead or severly injured, or worse you will kill or severly injure someone else.
Not totally your fault, even I don't understand how a Sabre 150 at 1/1 has become a conservative canopy choice for someone with under 50 jumps.
This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Which hey, means hopefully they'll break a leg before me right?



Key word: BEFORE.

They will also have probably more fabric over their head to slow them down before they hit.

I had about twice as many jumps as you, with about 20-30 in the previous few weeks, under a sabre2 190, horrible landing that I almost couldnt limp away from. Took me out of jumping for a while, hell, getting in and out of a chair hurt. Couple trips to the doctor and physical therapist later, still hurts sometimes.

Its just not worth it. Not that you care. BTW: There is no fucking way you can land a 150 perfectly with as many jumps as you have. I have more than double your jump numbers on just my sabre2 190 and Im still working on it every jump.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote



If landing straight is all that you can do relatively good (in all conditions) then there's crap loads more to do and improve on with your current canopy. Or if you want to switch due to bad fitting into the container, don't go anything lower than 150 and nothing higher performance than the intermediate canopies like Pilot, Sabre2, Safire2, Pulse, Spectre, Storm etc..



Do you guys not understand that this is exactly what I'm doing?

Yes, I'm staying 150, not going any smaller. And yes, I'm staying on the more conservative canopies. Did I say stiletto in my title? Yep, did I want reinforcement to help me choose not to go that way? Yep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

They will also have probably more fabric over their head to slow them down before they hit.


That time with the fabric over ... has passed along with round canopies. You have an airfoil, a flying wing. Not only size matters, but also the shape.



Sorry, I meant it like a larger canopy.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0