drago76 0 #1 July 18, 2017 Hello! I have injured my back about 3 years ago ( very painful experience), and i know, my back was never be so good, as in my young days. i am 41 yo, 182 centimetres tall, and about 75 kilo weight. want to go on this weekend to do staticline jump from about 1200 metres with wing type parachute ( yet, i do not know exact models, who that dropzone use for novices ). looks like, jumping is from post-soviet AN-2 aircraft ( biplane, typical flight speed about 120 kph - not very fast. what was advices? especially on landing? sure, there are briefing before, but i want to get as much information, as i can. maybe there is some to-do or so on, articles about all that? also interesting about my back. in last weeks my back is more or less ok - i be jogging for some kilometers twice of a week, and riding a motorcycle, yet, many hours rides, especially on not perfectly flat tarmac, do back fatique. week ago i do my first tandem jump, and my back was ok after that. in static line, as i understand, forces on opening chute is less, than on tandem from full speed freefall? P.S. went to try skydiving because of Kris Kaspersky ( who, sadly, died on skydiving accident this winter), and yes - that was very overhelming experience. -step out of a plane, and fall down :) very excited. thanks on advance! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #2 July 18, 2017 First, don't try to learn how to do your first jump here. This is important. You'll be taught everything you need to know by your instructors on the day. Just listen to them and try to enjoy it. If you try to teach yourself beforehand you'll either overwhelm yourself or teach yourself bad or inappropriate habits. The advice is to sleep well the night before and have a light breakfast. Take some granola bars or something with you for during the day. If you have questions ask your instructor at the time. Can you repeatedly jump from a 2 - 3 foot platform to the floor without hurting yourself? If the answer to that is no then I'd suggest you speak to the dropzone - tell them you've had a back injury and see what they suggest. Skydiving is great fun and I'm glad you're excited, but it's not worth hurting yourself over. Back injuries are tricky and can persist for years. It doesn't take much to make them worse and make the rest of your life miserable. I'd honestly seek the advice of a doctor before you jump. There is always the potential to have a hard opening, even on static line, and no one here is qualified to tell you whether you'll be OK making a jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JellyBelly 0 #3 July 19, 2017 You omitted to tell us something crucial: What is the nature of your back injury? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drago76 0 #4 July 19, 2017 some of erniation of the intervertebral disc. hope google translate do this well, my english is very bad, sorry. i do not plan to learn exactly "what to do", but gather as much as possible, information, and try to make a "picture" of a event is a part of me, as so i try to get as much as possible information. 2 - 3 foot jumps not problem for me, but i prefer to not stress my back if it possible, without serious reason. also i do not ask, what for me that jump may be, because i understand, that was unpredictable - too many factors. after all, Kris got fatality with good spine, as very many in this sport... but some general advices - how to determine braking height, how to brake before landing, how to exit aircraft, and so on is very good to know - especially for that, when i arrive at jumping site, i was, sure, a bit wrapped up by first time solo jump in front of me. there is also a lot of new for me information in briefing in the same time - all that make a bit information overload of brain, and some facts get miss the ears. instead of that, if i arrive in general by knowing some facts, there is a less "new" for me, and therefore, less stress, and better to memory all.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #5 July 19, 2017 I too have a pair of discs bulging out from my vertebrae. In the short run: consult your doctor (ideally a sports medicine Doctor) and physio-therapist. Listen carefully to your physio-therapist and do your exercises several times per week. The key to avoiding re-injury is strengthening and stretching all your core muscles to pull your spine back (apologies for the pun) into correct alignment. If you worry about information overload, try to find a skydiving school that breaks ground school into two or three short sessions. For example, some schools teach ground school on Thursday evening, then jump students on Saturday. Another alternative is doing ground school on Saturday. Saturday afternoon and evening, hang around the landing field watching jumpers get dressed, rehearse, land, pack, etc. Sleep on the new information, then do your first jump Sunday morning. "Sleeping on the idea" allows it sink into medium-term memory, improving performance during your first jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #6 July 19, 2017 drago76how to determine braking height, how to brake before landing, how to exit aircraft, and so on is very good to know While these all sound like simple questions to a beginner they actually require quite complex discussions to answer properly, and these can be difficult to communicate well over a forum - even to experienced jumpers. When you add to that the fact that English isn't your first language the risk of miscommunication is just too high for people to give you the detailed information you're looking for - it'll just make your training MORE difficult, not less. Rob's suggestion of breaking the training and the actual jump up is a good one. It's how I learnt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drago76 0 #7 July 19, 2017 i look for answers, not workarounds. sure, spine inner muscles development is very good thing, but is very hard to maintain long-term inspiration to do this, because you cant see any results. only feel ok. nearer dropzone is in 180 kilometers from me, and another is 220 kilometres away. as i said, i have my own way, in what manner i learn new things, and as so, i ask for information, not a advices, what i must learn instead of, what i do that :P sadly, in web, looks like, is a bit short of instructions of that sort ( SL, and so on)... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #8 July 19, 2017 Best advice: stay in shape. This pays off no matter what you are doing. Second: consult a sports med doctor, but make sure they have a real grasp on what skydiving is all about, not some vision of you jumping off 10 meter towers in training. Third: Listen to your body. If you are hurting, stop and assess what is going on. Better to skip one jump than miss a season or end a career. Fourth: don't lean on the wing of the AN-2, its fabric topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drago76 0 #9 July 19, 2017 topdockerBest advice: stay in shape. This pays off no matter what you are doing. Second: consult a sports med doctor, but make sure they have a real grasp on what skydiving is all about, not some vision of you jumping off 10 meter towers in training. Third: Listen to your body. If you are hurting, stop and assess what is going on. Better to skip one jump than miss a season or end a career. Fourth: don't lean on the wing of the AN-2, its fabric top good advice about AN2 wing ! :D what about another in the same manner? how to determine current height, speed, point where i landed, if not change anything? what is better manner to jump aut of aircraft until chute open? what is best procedure to start flare, if i do that first time, and do not have an experience to determine my height and speed under canopy? any large canopies special features, who is good to know? ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dthames 0 #10 July 19, 2017 Learn PLF very well. Don't land on your butt....which you might do if you flare late and don't plan ahead.....Don't land on your butt....PLFInstructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drago76 0 #11 July 19, 2017 dthamesLearn PLF very well. Don't land on your butt....which you might do if you flare late and don't plan ahead.....Don't land on your butt....PLF what is PLF? any links? flare late, as i understand, is better than flare early, and fall from x metres height, not? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #12 July 19, 2017 drago76 flare late, as i understand, is better than flare early, and fall from x metres height, not? *sigh And this is what happens when you try to learn skydiving over the internet. No. It's not necessarily better to flare late than to flare early. You're teaching yourself the wrong things and are INCREASING the risk of getting hurt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divalent 89 #13 July 19, 2017 drago76 ... I have injured my back about 3 years ago ( very painful experience), and i know, my back was never be so good, as in my young days. ... ***... Can you repeatedly jump from a 2 - 3 foot platform to the floor without hurting yourself? ... While that might be okay for an otherwise healthy jumper, even very experienced jumpers will occasionally biff a landing, and for students it's almost the rule that they will have several. (It's how you learn!). So I think you should consult a medical doctor, and the question to ask is not whether you'd be fine with routine landings, but with those inevitable harder ones. FYI: PLF = Parachute Landing Fall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachute_landing_fall. See if you can do these from a 4ft (1.2 meter) high platform onto the ground. And do it instinctively, so that when you are about to land hard, you actually do it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drago76 0 #14 July 19, 2017 i think, i classify hard landing, who need PLF as a major catastrophe, as so, i take it into account, but hope, i avoid it. i think, even that type of training can ruin my spine, if not in first attempt, then in second. just jump from some height is one thing, rolled over - completely different for my back... :\ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sammielu 3 #15 July 19, 2017 Students are expected to PLF all of their landings until they learn flare timing. There is no safer way to land for new students. 3 things I'd say for you: 1. Stop trying to learn on the internet. It is not helping. 2. Talk to an instructor where you want to get licensed, ask them to teach you a PLF (start in slow motion on a soft surface). Practice PLFs until you are good at them and your body can handle them from at least 1m high. 3. Listen to your instructor. Do everything they say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divalent 89 #16 July 19, 2017 drago76i think, i classify hard landing, who need PLF as a major catastrophe, as so, i take it into account, but hope, i avoid it. i think, even that type of training can ruin my spine, if not in first attempt, then in second. just jump from some height is one thing, rolled over - completely different for my back... :\ For your typical fun jumper, non-perfect landings are the thing that most often are the cause of the bumps and bruises you get in this sport. They happen all the time, many times because of factors beyond the jumpers control (wind gust, an obstacle noticed at the last second, being cut off by another jumper, etc.); they are not rare "major catastrophes". Mostly the consequences are minor, but in your case it sounds like they have the potential to be major. The PLF is a basic safety technique to minimize injury during a hard landing, an important and standard part of student training, and you almost certainly will be asked to practice and then demonstrate your ability to do a PLF before your first jump. If you don't think you could do even this, then I think solo skydiving is probably not something you want to attempt. JMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #17 July 19, 2017 drago76 i think, even that type of training can ruin my spine, if not in first attempt, then in second. just jump from some height is one thing, rolled over - completely different for my back... :\ I'm afraid I agree with Divalent. If the requirement to do multiple PLFs is likely to ruin your spine then I don't think you are fit enough to make a solo skydive. Maybe look into doing a tandem, but make sure you tell the dropzone about your injury. That way they can be cautious on your jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drago76 0 #18 July 20, 2017 if anyone else look for that, this looks one of best, who i find until now: https://axisflightschool.com/pdf/references_GettingTheMost_PerformanceDesigns.pdf https://axisflightschool.com/pdf/references_GettingTheMost_PerformanceDesigns.pdf most public in this place looks strange to me, and unable to get useful information, sadly... i been thinking, in skydivers bright person percentage is higher, than in general public... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #19 July 20, 2017 drago76if anyone else look for that, this looks one of best, who i find until now: https://axisflightschool.com/pdf/references_GettingTheMost_PerformanceDesigns.pdf https://axisflightschool.com/pdf/references_GettingTheMost_PerformanceDesigns.pdf most public in this place looks strange to me, and unable to get useful information, sadly... i been thinking, in skydivers bright person percentage is higher, than in general public... You're not listening to a word we're saying are you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drago76 0 #20 July 20, 2017 On the knees! How dare you talk first to the Dragon? :F apart of humor - most of you do not say anything interesting, nor new or useful for me, as so... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #21 July 20, 2017 drago76 apart of humor - most of you do not say anything interesting, nor new or useful for me, as so... That's the problem - you have no idea what is useful advice because you have zero experience. You came here asking for advice: You got it from experienced skydivers. Don't try and lean skydiving from the internet. Don't try to teach yourself from articles not aimed at students. You're probably not fit enough to make a solo skydive safely at the moment - look into doing a tandem or physiotherapy first. You're sounding remarkably like a DGIT to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pobrause 6 #22 July 20, 2017 yoink*** apart of humor - most of you do not say anything interesting, nor new or useful for me, as so... That's the problem - you have no idea what is useful advice because you have zero experience. You came here asking for advice: You got it from experienced skydivers. Don't try and lean skydiving from the internet. Don't try to teach yourself from articles not aimed at students. You're probably not fit enough to make a solo skydive safely at the moment - look into doing a tandem or physiotherapy first. You're sounding remarkably like a DGIT idiot to me. FIFY------------------------------------------------------- To absent friends Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #23 July 20, 2017 drago76i think, i classify hard landing, who need PLF as a major catastrophe, as so, i take it into account, but hope, i avoid it. i think, even that type of training can ruin my spine, if not in first attempt, then in second. just jump from some height is one thing, rolled over - completely different for my back... :\ A hard landing is a fairly common thing, even for experienced jumpers. More so for students. Flaring on time is important, either late or early can result in a hard landing that will require a PLF. the PLF is something every jumper should be able to do well, it's saved me from injury more than a few times. Video of PLF training: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQwX8NtEn7w Sometimes fairly heavy people come on here wanting to jump. A standard question is if they can jump off of a table (approx 1 meter) without injury. If not, then they shouldn't jump. And neither should you."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drago76 0 #24 July 21, 2017 thanks, also for link to video, i understand all that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyderrill66 15 #25 July 22, 2017 drago76 On the knees! How dare you talk first to the Dragon? :F apart of humor - most of you do not say anything interesting, nor new or useful for me, as so... Unfortunately i see a fatality here Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
