Just can't get the canopy packed..

[liftedtitan 0]

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Here's the deal,
I've got an I33 which recommends to hold a 135-150.
I have a chute shop 155.

Seems to be a pretty concise answer right there. Why dont you just buy the next size up bag container?

Fixed it for you.

LOL I'm such a donkey, i honestly thought he was talking about the deployment bag. I need to wake up before I post dumb shit.

Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt.

[Harmless 0]

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Here's the deal,
I've got an I33 which recommends to hold a 135-150.
I have a chute shop 155.

Seems to be a pretty concise answer right there. Why dont you just buy the next size up bag container?

Fixed it for you.

LOL I'm such a donkey, i honestly thought he was talking about the deployment bag. I need to wake up before I post dumb shit.

The D-bag is fitted for the container... therefor if you need a bigger d-bag, you need a bigger container.

"Damn you Gravity, you win again"

[councilman24 36]

He was talking about the bag. But as harmless said above, if you can't get in the bag (assuming the original size bag) then you can't get it in the container. (IF your experience and can get ANY canopy in a bag.) Sometimes people use a larger bag to make it easier to get it in the bag and then let the container compress the larger bag and the canopy inside but this can have issues also.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerrob 558]

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He was talking about the bag. But as harmless said above, if you can't get in the bag (assuming the original size bag) then you can't get it in the container. (IF your experience and can get ANY canopy in a bag.) Sometimes people use a larger bag to make it easier to get it in the bag and then let the container compress the larger bag and the canopy inside but this can have issues also.

.....................................................................................................

Yes, sometimes a larger d-bag can make packing easier.
Think of it as pre-compressing the canopy before shoving it into the container.

One school - where I used to work - had main canopies correctly-sized for their Javelin J-7 containers. But to make it easier for junior packers, they used J-9 main d-bags.
Because it was easier to stuff canopies into - over-sized - d-bags, junior packers rarely lost control of sliders, control lines, etc. and the malfunction rate was tiny.

Remember that if your main canopy is significantly bigger - than recommended by the container manufacturer - you will suffer hernias and blisters and pre-mature wear on your container. Over-stuffing containers eventually leads to expensive repairs (read arrogant master rigger or factory) like replacing side flap stiffeners and grommets.

[riggerrob 558]

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Hi eight,
If that is an older South African canopy it is very possible that the 155 is ~ the volume of a modern 170.

JerryBaumchen

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The other factor is that different manufactures use different measuring methods.
Para-Flite, PISA and the Parachute Industry Association measure span across the top skin, while Performance Designs measures span across the bottom skin.
The difference in measuring methods results in published numbers 10 or 15 percent different.
Just to tease you, Icarus changed from PIA to PD measuring methods in 2001.
Tee!
Hee!

[KellyF 16]

This bears repeating :-)

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Remember that if your main canopy is significantly bigger - than recommended by the container manufacturer - you will suffer hernias and blisters and pre-mature wear on your container. Over-stuffing containers eventually leads to expensive repairs (read arrogant master rigger or factory) like replacing side flap stiffeners and grommets.

There has been a lot of good info from everyone in this thread, so I'll just mention that the I-33 was designed to hold a Sabre 1 150 on the very high end, and a Stiletto 150 would be considered more reasonable. Depending on the construction of your 155 and the material it's made from, it may not be realistic to expect it to fit at all. If you have to muscle it in the container on a consistent basis, it's probably best to find a different canopy or container (canopy is usually easier if your container fits you well).

FWIW, my favorite trick for closing tight mains since I was a kid was pulling the pull up cord as far as I could get it, then standing the rig up and using my foot on the pull up cord between my hand and the rig (basically standing on the pullup cord). You can pull up LOTS of loop that way, but as Rob mentioned, too tight can damage flaps and stiffeners.....

VSE on Facebook

[eightate8at8 0]

Sooo.. Should I not leave it sitting in my gearbag like it is, aka packed?

The hunt for a canopy begins

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

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Sooo.. Should I not leave it sitting in my gearbag like it is, aka packed?

The hunt for a canopy begins

Please tell me that you DO NOT intend to get a smaller canopy to fit your container, rather than getting a bigger container to fit your canopy! A bigger container won't hurt you... a too small canopy may well hurt you. BE CAREFUL HERE. Get and heed GOOD advice, such as these:

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

http://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/Section5/tabid/168/Default.aspx#53b

http://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/Section6/tabid/169/Default.aspx#1072

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[eightate8at8 0]

I never plan on taking anything larger than baby steps when it comes to downsizing. A square or slightly tapered canopy such as the sabre in 135sqft will be fine for me. Through student I jumped a sabre 2 150.

Thanks for the literature

[davelepka 4]

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Through student I jumped a sabre 2 150

You say this, but your profile says you jump a Sabre2 170, and the begining of this thread mentioned something about a ZP 155. Which is it?

Before you answer, keep in mind that if you say you've jumped them all, that's not a step in your favor. To have 26 jumps, and jumped all of those canopies, plus the 200+ sq ft student canopies you jumped on your first handful of jumps, it shows that you have very little time under any one canopy. As such your metric for what you can, and cannot, handle is going to be very limited.

I'd more inclined to believe that you have a very small number of jumps on a 150. I'm also willing to bet that on every one of them, the canopy was first and foremost in your mind, and that you were probably trying to be 'careful'. None of which gives you an accurate picture of what it's like to jump the canopy for an extended period of time.

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A square or slightly tapered canopy such as the sabre in 135sqft will be fine for me.

And you make this very confident sounding statement based on what?

For various reasons, a 150 is generally considered to be the crossover to a 'high performance' canopy, regardless of the WL. As you downsize further, the differences and performance increase between sizes grows considerably.

You are playing a very dangerous game just thinking that 'you'll be fine'. You would also be fine on a more conservative wing, and you would be fine with a higher degree of certainty.

It if far easier than you think to break a leg or two when jumping a 150sq ft or smaller canopy. It doesn't really require that big of a mistake or error in judgement to result in an impact speed of 30mph or greater, which is sufficient to significant damage on soft ground, much worse in a parking lot or on a runway.

Reconsider your solution to this problem. If you already bought the container, that means it's a marketable rig, and you can sell it just like the last guy did. Learn to seperate the forest from the trees. The canopy is not too big, the rig is too small.

[mjosparky 3]

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Sooo.. Should I not leave it sitting in my gearbag like it is, aka packed?

The hunt for a canopy begins

Like I have mentioned to you before, people selling you gear are not always your friends. At 26 jumps you have some dangerous ideas about gear and your ability.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[eightate8at8 0]

@ dave. It's an internet profile, no I don't run home everyday to update it for you.

I progressed starting with 210>190>170>150.

Was I being careful with the 150? Fuck no. I was cranking on the risers, having fun, I wasn't paying $ to play pelotas under canopy.

Now do I sound like an idiot who wants to downsize and kill himself? Maybe, am I? No. I'm a smart kid, it's just that you guys jump the gun on thinking every fresh new jumper doesn't know anything.

[phantomII 36]

I hate to be the one that tells you, but almost all fresh new jumpers don't know as much as they think they do.
It's called learning curve.

Another point, time for 127 post but no time for a profile update. Most of the times you get answers based on your profile. And yes, on some items I'd talk differently to someone with 500 jumps than someone with 26 jumps.
Again, this learning curve thing.

[mjosparky 3]

Another one to add to the list, "No help needed or accepted".

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Eight:

You are not the first or last new jumper faced with this canopy size decision. Often the "discussion" ends up as not much more than a screaming match across a generational divide. Often this end up with both sides pissed of... one side is putting money on the bounce bingo board, and the othe side sets off to prove everyone else wrong.

A while back a really smart experienced jumper decided that this discussion was far too important to let it keep going like this. So..... he decided to take a different apporach. Rather than TELLING jumpers that they aren't ready for a smaller canopy....he developed a skill checklist that allows jumpers to determine for themselves if they yet have the skills. If you can DEMONSTRATE the skills.... full speed ahead. If not, jumping a bigger canopy won't hurt you.

Here is the checklist: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=47

Personally, I jump a moderately big, docile canopy. I cannot tell you how many times I have been REALLY glad that I had it overhead when things get a bit wierd. I have made lots of bad decisions that have put me in undesireable situations... but my conservative canopy has gotten me though. I am smarter now than I was two years agor, and hopefully I can AVOID most of those bad decisions in the future.

Thought for the day.... Experience as a student often bears little resemblance to the experiences you will have as a licensed jumper. Students have the benefit of rules (wind limits, gear specifications) that experienced jumpers don't. They also have supervision that experienced jumpers may not get. (I'll bet that you don't have any idea how much you were being supervised and "looked after" by instructional staff and experienced jumpers between earning "self supervision" status and your license.)

As a licensed jumper it is very easy to find yourself in situations that are FAR outside your experience level... and having a docile canopy overhead can truly be a lifesaver.

It doesn't take much to find yourself open lower than you would like, with a bad spot and unexpectedly high winds, over a dangerous landing area, aiming for a straight-in downwind landing in a small landing area surrounded by deadly hazards. So.... what canopy do you want overhead now?

I sincerely wish you nothing but the best.

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[KellyF 16]

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Sooo.. Should I not leave it sitting in my gearbag like it is, aka packed?

The hunt for a canopy begins

It *should* be fine left packed, but having no idea exactly how tight it is, or how well it is packed, I can't say for certain if fabric is slipping out from underneath grommets and such.

And for the record, I'm not suggesting downsizing to a 135 or anything like that, jsut saying that there ARE 150's that will go into your container. I have no first hand experience with your 155, but as mentioined earlier in the thread, the fabric alone could make it pack larger than a Sabre 170, and if that's the case, I would quit trying to fit it in the container

VSE on Facebook

[Jkralovec 0]

Use your ribbon to get the rubber bands on the D-bag through the grommets. That's it! Then continue to stuff the "excess" into the bag.

Also, buy a power tool to get your container closed. I have two dime-sized blisters on my "ring fingers" from trying to use a ribbon to close my MXS with a Sabre 2 135 in it.

I had all the same problems and these were my solutions.

But don't over stuff your container.

[Chubba 0]

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Use your ribbon to get the rubber bands on the D-bag through the grommets. That's it! Then continue to stuff the "excess" into the bag.

This!

I couldn't close my d-bag for the first ~50 packjobs on my Sabre2 without using the closing ribbon.

Even now if I do a sloppy packjob or the canopy somehow gets away from me when doing the folds/bagging, I'll just reach for the ribbon and tada, 2 seconds.

[hackish 8]

A sloppy pack job is one thing but don't forget about the most important basics including making sure the slider stays where it should and the lines remain where they should. I don't like the suggestions of cramming stuff in to the bag until it's all out of sight. If someone is sloppy getting it to that point do you really want them to jump it?

Try finding a video on how to do a reverse S fold and try that. I haven't personally watched it but I've hear that pack like a pro video was very helpful to some.

-Michael

[eightate8at8 0]

Thanks guys; and yeah I'll lookup that reverse S fold

[Chubba 0]

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A sloppy pack job is one thing but don't forget about the most important basics including making sure the slider stays where it should and the lines remain where they should. I don't like the suggestions of cramming stuff in to the bag until it's all out of sight. If someone is sloppy getting it to that point do you really want them to jump it?

Oh of course, everything is very neat, by sloppy I mean if I didn't have enough pressure on the folds and the canopy escaped on me a bit, more volume essentially but everything important is still in the right place.

If I keep perfect pressure when folding and bagging, I can close it easily with a closing ribbon, if it escapes a bit I use the ribbon just for simplicity sake... but never is the slider or lines sloppy.

[eightate8at8 0]

So just for quick verification, a sabre 150 will pack significantly better and smaller than this chute shop 155?

[Ron 7]

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Another one to add to the list, "No help needed or accepted".

Fixed.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334