Would You Still Jump?

[Peej 0]

Unfortunately for me being a videographer means that when most others are sitting on the ground the tandems will go which means i go too.

However, if i was in the plane and my TI says we're staying, i'm going nowhere.

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[crashtested 0]

count me in make that a 4 way

I'm of the anvil brother variety so lead is not needed, on me

[skybytch 259]

In other words, if you think you can pull it off, it's okay to ignore USPA recommendations (wind limit of 15 mph, SIM section 7-1 H).

That's a great example to set.

[diablopilot 2]

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Unfortunately for me being a videographer means that when most others are sitting on the ground the tandems will go which means i go too.

However, if i was in the plane and my TI says we're staying, i'm going nowhere.

I'm sure you know this, but I'll point it out for others. Just because someone else on the load is going, does not mean you need to if your "safety button" has been pushed.

That includes the TI you might be filming.

A few weeks ago, I was on the A/C to film a tandem, and the winds were out of the South (a rare direction for us, and turbulent due to terain and buildings). I had been on a tandem on the last load and the landing was safe, but the approach shook me up, to the point I was going to stand down. Walked into the hanger and saw I was on a video, so continued. We taxied to the end of the runway, when I made my decision, asked the pilot to pause, and got off the airplane. Started the long walk back to the hanger and heard my name called.

Two of our "A" licensed skydivers saw me get off and followed me out the door.

The load went on, everyone made it back safely, but everyone also stood down after that load.

Point is, it's always the individuals decision.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Rick 67]

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In reality, well, we don't radio up like that. We actually call the winds. And yes, if they were under 30 or so, I'd likely jump.

Now that there's been a little discussion ... a little more info from the actual (non-hypothetical) day that I observed this (at Z-Hills, FWIW). The day in question came immediately following a day where almost the whole day was rained out. (I was curious to see if some people would say "It would depend on how many jumps I'd gotten in that weekend").

I don't have actual wind speed numbers, nor do I know if the folks on the plane received that much detail. Most of the fun jumpers chose to ride down with the tandems. A few didn't. There were two planes in the air at the time - I believe that one plane got the message successfully, one didn't.

After watching the load that didn't get the message land (and the few stragglers that chose to land from the load that did), 20 of the 23 people in the loading area walked back in. At that point, the DZ shut down operations for the day, anyway.

I started this discussion because I'm really curious what it takes for people to stand down. Tandems go up in conditions that cause a lot of others on the dropzone to sit down - they're usually the last to "call it" on account of wind. To me, if the dropzone is willing to give up the revenue of a tandem (and in particular, if a dropzone is willing to eat the cost of sending up and bringing down half a plane load of tandems), the wind has gotten pretty far beyond what most jumpers should be up in.

The recent incident in Greensburg (where the jumper had one biffed landing due to what he described in his own logbook as "funky" winds, yet chose to jump again and paid the price) got me to thinking ... how do people decide when they've had enough of the winds?

you know my decision thats why I was standing on the ground with you watching most of the load bif in

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[jacketsdb23 45]

Krisanne as you know Bryon can get pretty windy. I have no problem jumping in 28 knot winds and do it on a regular basis. If the tandems stand down, I think its a pretty good indication that everyone on the plane should stand down. I haven't been in that situation yet.

I did however go to Perris last summer and was in the otter. Unexpectedly, the pilot leveled out at 8,000ft and said get out now or your coming down with the plane to the entire load. We looked out the door and saw a big storm was coming our way. You could see the sheets of rain coming down being pushed by strong winds. I was the only person on the Otter to stay with the plane. Went up near the pilot, buckled my seat belt and said i'm staying with the plane. (now, that being said, the ride down was um..how to say this...very interesting. I might get out next time ) No sooner than we got on the ground did 40mph "straight line" winds come through the landing area. Thankfully everyone was on the ground at that time. That was not a race I wanted to be in.

In short, yes information received in the plane can be helpful in determining whether to jump or not.

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[brucet7 0]

I have been readig this with interest. I am one of those new 'A's and don't have the best skills. I would like to say that I would be wise and prudent and stand my ground and sit for a ride back. My friend did on a cloudy day. I also know that I tend to follow the lead of those around me. I have jumped a couple of times close to clouds and on windier days than my skills. The thread has given me a lot to think about.

And maybe some people who COULD do it might not chose to because of the people also on the load. A lot of low number jumpers depend on the dz regulars for guidance, sometimes we ask sometimes we just watch.

POPS #10623; SOS #1672

[AnKaLi 0]

I'm a wimp in winds, I'm captain cautious when it comes to jumping in them, I don't really trust them much

[skybytch 259]

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And maybe some people who COULD do it might not chose to because of the people also on the load. A lot of low number jumpers depend on the dz regulars for guidance, sometimes we ask sometimes we just watch.

Something every jumper ought to think about...

[squarecanopy 0]

We have alot a gusty days at Mile High in the parameters you describe- so even though I have only 100 jumps I have landed in many gusty conditions. Gusty conditions are not fun, especially when your canopy will fold up about halfway and then reinflate at about 500 ft. Makes me nervous...

I would ride the airplane down because I don't get charged for the airplane ride, and I will definately be unbroken for the next jump.

Just burning a hole in the sky.....

[Amazon 7]

Ah hell.... at my wingloading... and landing speed.. lets make that a 4 way.


my tolerance for higher winds I guess is more than some..What is that they say at Byron.. Hook it for safety???

[livendive 8]

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It was fun watching a lil more fear in the TI's faces than the students.

I'd be lying if I denied that. I hate landing in the airplane!

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[hookitt 0]

Considering where I jump and the conditions in which the tandem masters will jump in, I'd land with the plane.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[livendive 8]

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A few weeks ago, I was on the A/C to film a tandem, and the winds were out of the South (a rare direction for us, and turbulent due to terain and buildings). I had been on a tandem on the last load and the landing was safe, but the approach shook me up, to the point I was going to stand down. Walked into the hanger and saw I was on a video, so continued. We taxied to the end of the runway, when I made my decision, asked the pilot to pause, and got off the airplane. Started the long walk back to the hanger and heard my name called.

Two of our "A" licensed skydivers saw me get off and followed me out the door.

Nice one! The sad thing is, it probably took you getting in that airplane and then getting back out to convince 'em that was the prudent course of action. If you'd declined to get in the plane at all, you'd have probably ended up doing what we all do...watch those without experience gain it. I wish they would get it through their heads that if I'm not getting in the airplane, it's not particularly wise for them either.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[mnealtx 0]

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Hook it for safety???

I don't see what Tim has to do with this discussion.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[FreeflyChile 0]

if it's my 10th jump of the day, and we've been jumping in the 12-18 mph winds all day and then they say the winds are like 18-22, sure, I'll go...or at least i would if i were jumping more.

now, i wouldnt because i havent jumped much the last few years

[Skydog0223 0]

A lot of DZ's I've jumped at push the limits with respect to Tandems and strong winds! I would say it would depend the DZ and an accurate report of what the wind was actually doing!

One time I was jumping at a club in the UK when we had climbed out the door the pilot got a call the winds had suddenly whipped up to 40MPH due to changing weather but it was too late, after landing it was straight to the pub to calm the nerves. I was overtaking cars on the highway while running to locate a big green patch, I'd say err on the side of caution! There's always next weekend!

"Know your own limits"

[jsaxton 0]

No shit!

[Squeak 17]

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I wish they would get it through their heads that if I'm not getting in the airplane, it's not particularly wise for them either.

Blues,
Dave

That's only provided that they KNOW why you are not getting on the plane.
I have had discussions with a more senior jumper than I about dealing with low jump numbered people, when we were doing B stage Rel work, his comment to them was the winds are squirrelly so if you don't want to jump then say so. I said to him that they will jump if you jump because they look to you for guidance. I then went over and said to them the winds are squirrelly, so I'm not jumping. they also pulled off the load and we all sat and watched the tandems get chased.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[HeatherB 0]

The tandems here will jump in stuff that I won't jump in (25mph+ and ugly). So if they're called down, I would land with the plane too. It's not usually a big surprise though...usually the winds build up to that over time, so hopefully I wouldn't have gotten in the plane to begin with.

It is so not worth it.

Some people at my DZ have a very high tolerance for wind though. Before coming here, I'd never seen people keep jumping when it's over 30pmh and/or really gusty but it happens a lot here.

No thanks! I'll pass!

[diablopilot 2]

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Nice one! The sad thing is, it probably took you getting in that airplane and then getting back out to convince 'em that was the prudent course of action. If you'd declined to get in the plane at all, you'd have probably ended up doing what we all do...watch those without experience gain it. I wish they would get it through their heads that if I'm not getting in the airplane, it's not particularly wise for them either.

Blues,
Dave

Actually I've become somewhat of a walking "barometer of conditions" at this DZ. Much of the time when I choose to sit down, so do most of the experienced jumpers. (Several have been students of mine, so that may account for something.) But funnier than that, my full time co-workers often seem to wait for my call too, and they have as much or more experience than me. After landing in challenging conditions, I've now come to expect them to seek me out on our short van ride back to the hanger and ask "So, what do you think?"

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[cdhezel 0]

depends on, how current I am, my mood, size and shape of dz (any sources of wind turbulance), which canopy I am jumping etc, and if in doubt my answer would be "no jump"

When I go, I want to pass away in my sleep, just like my dear old Grandmother, NOT screaming like the passengers in the car she was driving.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

I vote it depends...

Some DZ's will ground the tandems as soon as the winds hit "X" MPH. In those cases I'd probably go. Other DZ's won't ground anybody until it's way out of hand, in which case I'd probably stay.

Depends a bit on the DZ in terms of outs and such too... is it like Parkman, OH where if you miss you're in the forest? or like Eloy where if you miss you've got 1,000 square miles of open desert? (of course, in Eloy they usually ground the up-jumpers before I hit my personal wind saftey red flags, but that's beside the point... and they have good reason to do so).

I've taken the plane down before, but only when the weather was truly horrible... more horrible than just high/gusty wind.

I think many who voted "no" may be surprised what they decide to do when it actually happens for the first time.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[jwynne 0]

[replyTo be honest, if the jump leader would have bothered to step outside and meassure the wind speed to tell us the correct information BEFORE we took off I would have stayed on the ground.

[WGore 0]

At the DZ I flew for, for years it was usually the pilots that shut things down. All of our pilots had more jumps than most of the up jumpers and when they were scared the rest listened. What some of those folks would jump in I didn't want to land an airplane in.
On the other hand if the wind was straight down the runway, you are an adult, name your own poison. Obviously experienced jumpers.
I have jumped in some questionable conditions doing demos, but for fun jumps there is always tomorrow or next weekend, why push it. I've said it more than once, I don't need one more jump that bad. Once I did and got a rather intimate introduction to a woven wire fence and then the emergency room. The DZ shut down for the rest of the day. BTW this was on a round, they really suck in 30mph winds.

GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!