azuleskies 0 #1 October 4, 2009 I bought a used rig with a Saphire 2 main with supposedly around 700 jumps made Oct. 03. This was from a person who normally sells gear on here, not just an individual selling their gear. Canopy had a a new line set 80 jumps ago. The canopy was inspected. 4 jumps after the inspection the main ripped out the bottom skin on the 7th cell and stabilizer. The person who I bought gear from said the would "stand behind the gear" He knows of the problem and talked with the rigger who inspected the canopy after the tear. Of course the seller will not return my calls or emails now. What would you do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #2 October 5, 2009 What would I do? Accept that I was taking a chance when I bought a used canopy with 700+ jumps on it and either fix it or turn it into an expensive car cover. There are so many different things that could have caused the damage. It could have been an unknown issue with the fabric, it could have been an obvious issue with the fabric (in which case you as the buyer should have noticed it in your personal inspection if the rigger who inspected it didn't catch it), it could have been packing related... and there's no way to prove any of them. SIUC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #3 October 5, 2009 Sounds like no fault of the sellers. Just sounds like those things that comes down to bad luck. The seller can only be responsible to 'stand behind the gear' that it is exactly what he says it is when you receive it and in the condition he promised it would be sold in. I feel for you but I dont think you can blame the seller. However, it i someone who buys and sells used gear, maybe the seller and you could work together for the seller to contact the person they purchased it from and explain what has happened, cause it sounds like this would have happened only four jumps after the seller purchased the gear from the owner. Maybe the owner feels for this kind of siuation and is willing to help the seller help you. Sorry for your bad luck mate but second hand gear comes 'as is' and as long as the seller had the right intentions then he can not be faulted, it is a chance you take with buying anything new without a warranty or second hand. It sounds to me that I know who you are talkign about and if it is the person who comes to mind I can tell you they take their reputation very seriously and would not risk a bung canopy sale for a few bucks profit over their reputation and future in the second hand gear sales market. IM glad you have not jumped to naming and shaming the person and I hope the seller can respect this thread as it is not a personal attack and is just a person with bad luck who is asking advice on how to solve the situation. I am sure you two can work it out and if it is who i think it is i would be more than accommodating on helping you buy something new as cheap as possible if that helps you at all. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #4 October 5, 2009 Quotewarning don't buy used gear from this guy Thanks for the warning. We'll be sure not to buy gear from this unnamed person who sells gear on dropzone.com. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedude325 0 #5 October 5, 2009 I recently sold a motorcycle. Ran perfect. The guy called me the day after, saying the tranny went out. Not my problem. (I do recall him asking how to "do a burnout" when I sold it to him...) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #6 October 5, 2009 QuoteThe canopy was inspected By who? If the inspector was working for you, then maybe you could take it up with them. If the guy you bought it from told you it had been 'inspected', and you purchased it based on that, you should produce your bill of sale stating the warranty the seller was providing, and use it to seek repairs or reimbursement. If you bought it without a written warranty, then you're out of luck. Every canopy that has ever blown a cell was just fine on the jump before the cell went south. You bought a complete rig? I'm guessing the harness held together, and the reserve worked as well, so the seller can't be all that bad, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,875 #7 October 5, 2009 >What would you do? 1) Get the canopy fixed 2) Learn some packing tricks to slow down the openings 3) Avoid blaming people who have nothing to do with the problem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilot-one 0 #8 October 5, 2009 Personally I think your warning should be: "Don't buy used gear" Unless you're willing to risk some problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #9 October 5, 2009 Has that canopy been jumped in South West in sandy and sunny environment ? Sand goes everywhere and can hide between the stitches. Sun and its UV rays is weakening fabric rather fast.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azuleskies 0 #10 October 6, 2009 Yes I'd like to try to work it out but the seller (likestojump) refuses to return phone calls or emails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azuleskies 0 #11 October 6, 2009 I don't beleive packing was an issue. I've been packing for a long time without issues. I personally packed this canopy. I have bought used gear in the past without problems. However fault or not I do expect some since of coustomer service which has been non existant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cderham 0 #12 October 6, 2009 Maybe he is on vacation. maybe he or a family member is sick. Sometimes when I am at a boogie or traveling I dont even log into dz.com for OVER A WEEK yea I know unbeleivable. but I am curiuos if this is a case where you emailed him a couple days ago or a couple weeks ago. Most of these issues work them selves out. but looking at things the canopy has 700 jumps and I would be upset that it blew apart but know that it is what it is with buying a used canopy. Had a guy I jump with buy a used stilletto. had it inspected by a very very repitable rigger. 2nd or 3rd jump it blew in half. sometimes in this sport crap like that just gives when it gives. Give it alittle time people before name bashing and screaming please Chris It's Jimmy Time!! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Team-Fast-As-Fuck/6099474213 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtnesbitt 0 #13 October 6, 2009 You are quick to place the blame, yet to have not answered most of the questions posed in this thread. Whose rigger did the inspection? Is it "just" a weekend Senior Rigger or a full time Master Rigger? Have you had the said rigger give you an opinion on what that happened? What was their opinion? Since you don't believe it was the packing, what do you think caused the rip? You also mention a reline 80 jumps ago. Do you know if the reline was done by an Icarus service center or an unaffiliated party?"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #14 October 6, 2009 I have said before, the common sense factor for me is nothing older than 7 years old, period, no matter how awesome the deal....this canopy seems to be knocking on 7yrs old,,,there are tons of used 3 yr old canopies at very good prices on here. Look, listen ,learn and set personal limits, good luck..and as always - buyer beware smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Couloirman 0 #15 October 6, 2009 QuoteI bought a used rig with a Saphire 2 main with supposedly around 700 jumps made Oct. 03. This was from a person who normally sells gear on here, not just an individual selling their gear. Canopy had a a new line set 80 jumps ago. The canopy was inspected. 4 jumps after the inspection the main ripped out the bottom skin on the 7th cell and stabilizer. The person who I bought gear from said the would "stand behind the gear" He knows of the problem and talked with the rigger who inspected the canopy after the tear. Of course the seller will not return my calls or emails now. What would you do? Paul is a good guy who I have dealt with several times and will make right issues that need to be made right. But YOU had it inspected, YOU made the decision to buy it after the satisfactory inspection, and YOU jumped it when it blew up. This sounds like no fault of Paul's and calling him out on a public forum like that is poor form. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #16 October 7, 2009 QuoteYes I'd like to try to work it out but the seller (likestojump) refuses to return phone calls or emails. You are a piece of work. You will identify the guy you bought the canopy from on a public forum but you won’t identify yourself. You are only willing to give information that makes you feel good, how about the whole story. 17 years in the sport and this is the best you can do. You can’t be serious. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swoopfly 7 #17 October 7, 2009 hey just curious if you have ever even taken the time to read that warning label on your parachute there?? no company gurantees a parachute to not blow out, even brand new? how do you know it wasent a packing problem? even the manufacturers say you can pack it perfect and it will still malfunction, snap, break, blow the hell up!! like everyone else said, it does suck that this has happened, but werent you the one who decided to buy it after the inspections? didnt you realize that this shit can happen? i mean hell read the warning label on your 7 year old parachute!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #18 October 7, 2009 QuoteYes I'd like to try to work it out but the seller (Paul) refuses to return phone calls or emails I also know Paul, and he's a pretty straight shooter. He sells quite a bit of used gear, I'm 100% sure that none of it ever included a warranty. If your inspection had revealed some sort of problem, or the harness didn't fit, or you just didn't like the color, I have no doubt that Paul would have refunded your money provided you had not jumped the rig. Once you jump the rig, all bets are off and you have accepted any and all risk involved, to yourself or the equipment. For this reason, having the rig inspected is a smart idea. and according to you, an inspection was completed. If anyone, you should take this up the rigger who did the inspection. One of two things happened - 1. The rigger did a 100% complete inspection, including all of the seams and line attachment points on the canopy, and found no problems. 2. The rigger did an incomplete inspection on the main, and just looked at the condition of the fabric. In either case, the seller is not to blame. In case #1, the canopy was indeed as advertised, and delivered with no problems. If case #2 is what happened, than you should be asking the rigger why he advised you to purchase and jump a faulty canopy. It should have been clear from every single post in this thread that the seller was not to blame. I'm sure you're upset by the situation, but to read every post indicating the seller is not responsible and then to continue on to post his name is in very bad form. It's a shame your e-mails and calls have not been returned, but I would ask how much time had elapsed between unreturned communications, and suggest that a return call/e-mail may be in the works. I would also suggest that if your correspondence lacks the basic logic and common sense as your posts regarding this issue, I would not be expecting to hear back from him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azuleskies 0 #19 October 7, 2009 Its been over three or four weeks with no response Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azuleskies 0 #20 October 7, 2009 Yes inspection was done my a Master rigger. I'm not sure to answer your question about the reline. The Post inspection Opinion said that it could be due to the age of the canopy. There was one patch done on the canopy at the time of the orginal inspection that I forgot to mention. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azuleskies 0 #21 October 7, 2009 If he is such a good guy he sould return phone calls and have better customer service. I was just answering PilotDave's question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,875 #22 October 7, 2009 >The Post inspection Opinion said that it could be due to the age >of the canopy. So someone advised you to jump a canopy with "aged" fabric, and you did. You got a few jumps out of it, then it failed. They then said the age of the fabric might have something to do with it. Sounds like you got exactly what you paid for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iambeav2 0 #23 October 7, 2009 Ok, now that you put the name out there, I'm jumping in. Something just don't seem right here to me. At any point in time I can give Paul a call or a text, and he gets right back to me or answers right then. I'm in NC and with me running my DZ, after ALL my students get their A license, the first person I call, the absolute FIRST (and quite often only as he helps me out) is Paul. I do know he travels a lot, and he just may be out traveling right now. Regardless of your claims, I will continue to buy from Paul, and I will continue to send students and friends to him for gear. Matter of fact, the current gear I'm jumping right now is from Paul, and I couldn't be happier. (Voodoo w/ Cobalt 135 w/ H. Mod, oh how sweet it is)....it's not the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until it's gone...it's the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until someone appreciates it for you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #24 October 7, 2009 Inspect a main. "Lines are such, no issues found, one good quality patch, consistent with 700 jumps." Get it back blown in half. "Canopy blew up." No one is going to be able to tell you whether a 700 jump canopy is going to blow up tomorrow or in another 800 jumps. Too bad it blew up on you. Neither the seller OR your rigger could predict it. Now, let us know who YOU are so we can choose not to sell equipment to you. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tjm 0 #25 October 7, 2009 QuoteOk, now that you put the name out there, I'm jumping in. Something just don't seem right here to me. At any point in time I can give Paul a call or a text, and he gets right back to me or answers right then. I'm in NC and with me running my DZ, after ALL my students get their A license, the first person I call, the absolute FIRST (and quite often only as he helps me out) is Paul. I do know he travels a lot, and he just may be out traveling right now. Regardless of your claims, I will continue to buy from Paul, and I will continue to send students and friends to him for gear. Matter of fact, the current gear I'm jumping right now is from Paul, and I couldn't be happier. (Voodoo w/ Cobalt 135 w/ H. Mod, oh how sweet it is). I agree, while my first rig was new, I have a complete secondary setup from Paul with no problems. He even cut me some deals because I was trying to piece together a rig and I was getting all of it from him. I eventually got a Javelin NJ; Cobalt 120, PDR 126, all priced good and in excellent condition. So, i'll go to him in the future. BTW no problems getting in touch with him. Old gear sometimes fail unexpectedly. Just at the wrong time in some cases. This is just a case of bad luck.If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites