Zeppo 0 #1 September 23, 2009 I know lots of questions have always popped up regarding the wings options, but I have a few others that I couldn't seem to find in the search, and I'm hoping some people out there can help enlighten me. Swoop Riser Option - What are swoop risers vs regular risers? I'm not quite certain of the difference. Main Container bottom flap closing loop retainer. Is this just like it sounds, the closing loop is attached to the bottom flap (like a mirage) instead of up near the reserve? Stainless Steel - on the wings, this is a very expensive option, and I really seem to be having a hard time justifying the expense. Is there something I'm missing. I've heard that stainless helps the rig keep it's value for resale? Any insights that anyone could provide would be helpful.What goes up, must come DOWN!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #2 September 23, 2009 stainless steel - its shiny And at times has causes problems when used without adequate research. Three rings, harness rings now, okay. Friction adapters, I'd still stay away from. Hold it's value? Not to an old fart like me. But I wouldn't pay for tie dye either. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 0 #3 September 23, 2009 Quote stainless steel - its shiny And at times has causes problems when used without adequate research. Three rings, harness rings now, okay. Friction adapters, I'd still stay away from. Hold it's value? Not to an old fart like me. But I wouldn't pay for tie dye either. Why the friction adapters Terry?Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedude325 0 #4 September 24, 2009 Don't swoop risers have handles on the front risers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #5 September 24, 2009 When friction adapters were cadmium plated and webbing was stiff nothing ever slipped. Going to slicker materials ment that hardware had to be redesigned. Booth has some made with sharper teeth. The were too good. They didn't allow the webbing to slip at all and loaded the harness too high. When the mil spec design was made in stainless is let the webbing slipped too much. Lots of work has went into making them work. Even cadmium plated hardware is having trouble with webbing slipping. Ted Strong is/was chairing an ad hoc committee of PIA investigating the issue. One thing came up that I think is the anwer. It's been a couple of years since I heard this info so I may get something wrong. But the spec on harness webbing (it late and I'd get the type wrong if I typed it, too lazy to look it up, see my sig line) allows the thickness to be from like 0.080" to 0.120" I may have the numbers wrong but the percentage variation allowed was this 50%. I know nothing about dyeing narrow fabrics so this is a laymans explination. Apparently, batch dyed webbing is the older process and comes out at the high end of the spec. As I understand it at a basic level it's thrown in a vat and dyed. That's my simplified picture of it. The newer method is continuous dyed in some way but is under tension while it's dyed. This method seemed to produce thinner webbing. I think of it as less swelling. Still in spec but at the lower end. It's more efficient and used for larger runs of popular colors. So, the old method produced thicker webbing. The new method produced thinner webbing. And now we have slipping issues when we never did before. But, the old method lends itself to smaller batches. So the simplified answer is if you want a harness that doesn't slip get a pink one.The hardware stuff above is from various talks by Bill and others. The webbing stuff is from a meeting and discussion at a PIA business meeting a couple of years ago and my conjecture and theory is then applied. It has NOT been proven yet and narrow fabric manufacturers may say I have it all wrong. So, between the changes in webbing and the issues getting non cadmium hardware to work right I'd stay with cadmium hardware. And a pink harness... okay, maybe kelly green. Basically I just don't think the nickel, stainless hardware designs have been completely worked out yet. You can get it and probably be fine. But I'm conservative enough to not bother. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtiflyer 0 #6 September 24, 2009 Quote stainless steel - its shiny And at times has causes problems when used without adequate research. Three rings, harness rings now, okay. Friction adapters, I'd still stay away from. I have stainless on both my wings containers, leg straps have never slipped once. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #7 September 24, 2009 A option I would suggest on the Wings container is to change the AAD cutter location from the bottom of the reserve container to a flap above the reserve decreasing that way the length of the cut closing loop under the pin in case of an AAD firing. Shorter is the length, less zigzaging thru the flaps, easier launch of the pilot chute. But I am not sure if they will accept such a change.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azureriders 0 #8 September 24, 2009 I know you are still on student gear, but you will find that most all sport gear has "dive loops" on the front risers. I jump wings containers but I am not sure just what they are offereing now as "swoop risers" but more than likely a variation of their dive loops. More comfortable to the fingers, stays open better, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #9 September 24, 2009 Never said they all slip. Any kind can have issues these days. YMMVI'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHixxx 0 #10 September 24, 2009 Swoop Riser Option has tubular nylon with foam inside it for extra grippy front dive loops. Much easier on the hands than the standard webbing, I know as I have sprained fingers with aggressive front dive loop input. Main Container bottom flap closing loop retainer is like a Mirage's. Stainless Steel deluxe option is expensive as it uses the Parachutes Defrance style hardware which doesn't slip and isn't cheap. In fact, I have a hard time tightening my rig with black webbing, the dark grey one grabs slightly less. Stainless steel helps resale, functionally I would prefer it for environments with moisture and grit to protect the metal. Hope this helps, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 0 #11 September 24, 2009 Thanks Terry..... my Vector has them on the legs and I have not had any problems but I do appreciate the insight as I had not heard of that possibility before. I appreciate the effort in explaining it to me in detail! Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DangerDoug 0 #12 September 28, 2009 Quote I know you are still on student gear... Quote LOL Sorry Steve, I couldn't help myself!! Danger Doug www.dangerdoug.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
