Legal question about "employment at will"

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

I currently work 2nd shift in IT hourly. My employer wants to change my title to include "facitilies oversight coordinator" so that they can cover their asses with all of the employees who have to frequently work late in "facilities" (mailroom) who are hourly and are not supposed to work w/o supervision. They want me to be here as a supervisor on paper, and if those people have any issues, they will come knock on my door at night. Additionally, I will now go from hourly (read, able to rec'v overtime), to salary (exempt) and with apparently little to no compensation for the change of position to supervisory.

My question is, can I decline? It has NOTHING to do with what I signed on for here. It comes with no add'l compensation, and it is not a change to my position, it is a position change (title change). Does "employment at will" screw me into being forced to take part in this? I was hoping that I could decline in lieu of a salary increase, or get laid off and get compensation from the company and from unemployment. I have been employed here for 4 years. Thoughts? I will paste the employment at will form below for review, it makes it sound like i'm screwed, but i'm unsure of how they can do that!

Thank you.
Angela.


Subject: Employment at Will

Policy Number: 110

Effective Date: August 1, 2001

Previous Version Date: None

Applies To: All Employees

Purpose

To define the organization’s policy regarding terms of employment.

Policy

Unless employment is by virtue of a written contract signed by an authorized Officer of the company with specific provisions regarding the terms of employment, employment with the company is at-will and may be terminated at any time, for any reason, with or without cause or notice by either the employee or the company. Completion of an introductory period does not alter the at-will provision.

No policy or procedure contained in this manual, the employee handbook, forms, memorandums or other materials provided to employees shall be construed as a contract of employment.

Procedure

All employment contracts shall be processed through the Human Resources or Legal Department.

The company retains the right to exercise all customary managerial functions including, but not limited to the following:

To assign, dismiss, supervise and discipline employees;

To determine and change starting times, quitting times and shifts;

To transfer employees within departments or into other departments and other classifications;

To determine and modify the size of and qualifications of the work force;

To establish, revise or abolish its policies, practices, rules and regulations at will, as deemed necessary;

To determine, set or change operational methods;

To determine and change the nature, location, services rendered, quantity and continued operation of the business; and

To assign or remove duties to and from employees in accordance with company needs and requirements, and to carry out all requisite administrative and management functions.

Prior to any termination decision, please review and follow, if applicable, the procedures set forth in this manual and consult with your local Human Resources Representative.

[Deuce 1]

They can just fire you without cause if they want to.

So, if they are hostile, they can inform you that your position no longer exists and you have been fired, but they have an opening in the newly created classification and are you interested?

This is where you stretch your negotiation legs. Take your current compensation including overtime and add 10 to 15% to it for the new burdens of supervision and pitch it to them as the benefit package of the new position. If they don't want to pay more, try for flex time, increased days off.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Man, whatever happened to layoff packages? I have worked here for 4 years now, and the original company had kickass (like, 6 months full pay) layoff packages. WTF?!

I was considering asking for an add'l 10%. What is flex time? I already get 22 days off per year and it is a large company so your pto depends directly on what time you have been here (it's in writing).

Angela.

[PhillyKev 0]

They can tell you your new position is cleaning toilets. If you don't like it, find another job. That's just the way it is.

[skydiver30960 0]

I think I'm with Deuce on this one. Maybe.

Like Deuce said, "at will" employment (I'm pretty sure) just means that you or your employer can terminate your employment at any time, i.e. no contract.

My first thought is with Deuce, that there's no harm in asking, worst thing that could happen is they'll say no and you'll be back at square one.

My only other concern is: how badly do you need your job? If you make this counteroffer and they tell you to get stuffed, will you be able to get by until you get a new job? It COULD happen, but IMO isn't too likely. My thought on the matter is that if they shitcan you just for asking then it's too damn unstable a place to work anyhow, so they did you a favor.

All in all, I say go for it. Be calm, have a plan of attack, point out everything you'll be doing and bringing to the new position. Make it sound like a deal to them: "look at all you're getting for only X more dollars a year".

CAVEAT EMPTOR: I'm giving employment advice, and I've been unemployed for almost a year now.
Elvisio "unemployment checks almost gone" Rodriguez

[kelpdiver 2]

Your description (spin?) certainly raises flags. And it's pretty common for employers to inappropriate shift people towards the exempt status.

For the most part, if you don't want this change and effective paycut, you decline it. If they lay you off as a result, you should still be eligible for unemployment. But that's defined by the individual states, you need to verify for Florida. It would surprise me if this would be classified as a voluntary quit since you weren't given a choice to take this new role.

It's possible they will find another person to take this role and you would not be fired - it's a bit crazy to drop a 4 year employee - but it may be held against you in the future by management. Probably time to think about the next gig.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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It's possible they will find another person to take this role and you would not be fired - it's a bit crazy to drop a 4 year employee - but it may be held against you in the future by management. Probably time to think about the next gig.

We'll see how it goes I guess. I will try not to sound like an asshole, but simply concerned that I will have a supervisory role, and why that type of work should be compensated for. As far as future management, I am not looking to stay here for even another year. I plan to quit by next August and move away to attend school full time. So, no, I really don't want to find another job at this point, either as it would just be too much effort for something I would have for less than one year, and it may conflict with a school schedule that I have to have prepared for next semester by Monday. They don't just go around firing people here, but you guys worry me. :(

angela.

[Jimbo 0]

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They can tell you your new position is cleaning toilets. If you don't like it, find another job. That's just the way it is.

Why is this such a difficult concept for people to grasp?

Quote

Man, whatever happened to layoff packages? I have worked here for 4 years now, and the original company had kickass (like, 6 months full pay) layoff packages. WTF?!

Angela, you've got to be kidding me. You are, right?

What in the world makes you think that you or anyone else is entitled to a layoff package (commonly called severance pay). It's nice when companies offer severance packages, but my God, to expect one?

What is this world coming to?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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They can tell you your new position is cleaning toilets. If you don't like it, find another job. That's just the way it is.

Why is this such a difficult concept for people to grasp?

-
Jim

Because it doesn't seem quite right, that's why. consider being hired for a networking job, you move to avoid a commute, then a month later they tell you that they no longer need you for networking, but they have a position for you in the mailroom. Obviously, this shit doesn't happen, but that's what it says can happen with no issues. You don't want it, well, leave. That sucks!

Honestly, I'm certain I won't lose my job over this, but I think this policy sucks! And, I think I should be able to post a f-ing question without being patronized/ thought to be stupid because I had to ask.

Half of my department was laid off when the company changed over and all of them were given 4 months to a year of full pay depending on time of service. Now that was cool! This "employment at will" policy wasn't even in effect when I was hired, the bulletin was as of 2001.

Angela.

[Jimbo 0]

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Because it doesn't seem quite right, that's why.

Why? You're not working for them, you're no longer providing any value to them, why should they continue to pay a salary and get nothing in return?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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Because it doesn't seem quite right, that's why.

Why? You're not working for them, you're no longer providing any value to them, why should they continue to pay a salary and get nothing in return?

-
Jim

Dude, honestly, i'm not going to sit here and amuse you by arguing the point. It doesn't matter what I say, we're on different sides with this one.

For the record, though, I think that most retired people would disagree that just because you no longer provide a service, you shouldn't be paid.

Nighty night.
-A

[Jimbo 0]

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For the record, though, I think that most retired people would disagree that just because you no longer provide a service, you shouldn't be paid.

Most retired people are living off of savings, investments, pensions, and government assistance. Not a 6 month severance package.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Muenkel 0]

In answer to your original question, yes they can do exactly that. However that does not mean you're in the dumper. I would look into the "unemployment" law in your state. It is possible to collect unemployment if you voluntarily quit due to the fact that your job responsibilities were increased without fair compensation. But, it depends on your state laws. One thing I fear though is that your HR department is well aware of such laws.

Good luck,

_________________________________________
Chris

[legalart 0]

Re-read the post from Deuce. I work in this area and his take is pretty much correct. The only thing I would take issue with is that here in California anyone can sue anyone for anything. Florida law may be different, because it's a more conservative state and may be a "right to work" state. The point Deuce made and I concur with is negotiation is the way to go because you, as an employee, are generally at a disadvantage.

(Edited for blathering)

[crwmike 0]

Talk to them, Angela. Express your concerns and see what can be worked out.

Me? I'm a nurse in the middle of a nursing shortage. "Kiss my ass" is my response to an unwanted employer action.

Michael

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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Talk to them, Angela. Express your concerns and see what can be worked out.

Me? I'm a nurse in the middle of a nursing shortage. "Kiss my ass" is my response to an unwanted employer action.

Michael

Hi, Mike.

I will speak to them. I think they will have the proposal worked up next week. I told them to get back to me when they've got the details, and I expressed my concerns to my immediate boss, although I believe I may have to repeat them to his boss. Maybe we can get this to work out for everyone.

Must be nice;) People to fill my position are probably easy to come by. If they don't know mainframes, it's easy to learn.

Thanks all!
Angela.

[skyyhi 0]

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Me? I'm a nurse in the middle of a nursing shortage. "Kiss my ass" is my response to an unwanted employer action.

Mike, your post made me laugh. . .I work in healthcare and watched a team of nurses tell their supervisor "kiss my ass" so to speak when some new "issue" came up. It is amazing how quickly management changed their tune.

________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

[Snowwhite 0]

Employment at will? Good luck. A year ago, my husbands boss asked him if he would ever be interested in working in Michigan, or China. His answer was he LOVED South Carolina, and was glad to be working there. The next week, so long! We don't need you anymore.

skydiveTaylorville.org
[email protected]

[BIGUN 1,050]

All U.S. States recognize retaliatory discharge as an exception to the at-will rule. Under the retaliatory discharge exception, an employer may not fire an employee if it would violate the State's public policy or a State or Federal statute. Most states also recognize an implied contract as an exception to at-will employment. Implied employment contracts are most often found when an employer's personnel policies or handbooks indicate that an employee will not be fired except for good cause or specify a procedural process for firing. If the employer fires the employee in violation of an implied employment contract, the employer may be found liable for breach of contract. A smaller number of States have also recognized a breach of an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing as an exception to at-will employment.

Unfortunately, most employees "believe" that at-will is the same as "at-leisure" or the type of job reclassification that you're talking about and it's not. Most folks don't fight it and the employers play up this assumption.

What does you employee handbook say about "causes" for termination?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[PhillyKev 0]

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If the employer fires the employee in violation of an implied employment contract, the employer may be found liable for breach of contract.

True, but that would require a law suit before any finding of liability. Good luck with that.

[jumpwally 0]

Its a bummer what they are asking you to do,,,but how bad do you think its going to be? Is anything that bad? I say go with the flow and check it out!..you said you gonna go to school soon, use this as a stepping stone for the future. Hey one door usually leads to another,,and around every corner is another opportunity..Good luck wally

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083