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cruisers2

foolish landing...ouch!

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I did my 3rd AFF 3 weeks ago...the first this year. Exit was great, signs and turns were great, good pull, nice canopy...BUT...I entered my landing approach too high, came in on half brakes, and flaired too high. Wow, did that hurt! I found out what wonderful things Docs can do for crushed vertebaes. I can't get back up fo at least a couple weeks.
I know my mistakes started at 100 ft, and the one that did the damage was at about 30 feet.
My instructors didn't have much to say to me, other than compliment me on all the good stuff I did. Giveme some critism, please, and point out my mistakes to me.

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well.. I was taught the pattern should start around 900-1000' in my FJC.

There are things you can do to adjust the pattern as you come in without making erratic S-turns. I am constantly evaluating my pattern on my approach, and when I think I am too high I will either take my downwind leg further, or turn away from my intended base-leg starting point a bit in order to make the base leg longer. Make the pattern more triangle-like and less square, if that makes sense. In the canopy course I took, I was also taught that if you are on base-leg and realize that you are too high, you can take the base further than your intended turn-to-final point, and then do a 180 back to that point. Of course these are dependent on traffic and your DZ's landing area rules rules so ask your instructor before you do this stuff!

If you are at 100' and trying to fly in brakes or whatnot to shorten your intended landing path, it's a bit late. I know at our DZ we are OK when winds are N/S because an overshoot will land you in another field. When the winds are E/W it becomes trickier because we have a runway on one side and a fence on the other side of the landing area. on the E/W days a very gentle flat turn might take you in a better direction and lengthen your potential landing area.

On your final, your best bet is to allow the canopy to fly full-flight to your landing point. More airspeed will give you lift in your flare, which equates to more power to stop yourself from smacking down so hard. Canopies just don't flare well at all from braked flight.

Practicing PLF's might also make you look silly, but feel better afterwards if this ever happens again [:/].

Maybe pick up "The Parachute and It's Pilot" to read while you recover, good canopy control info in there and definitely cheaper than another doctor visit. Heal up soon!

Good judgement comes from experience, and most of that comes from bad judgement.

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I did my 3rd AFF 3 weeks ago...the first this year. Exit was great, signs and turns were great, good pull, nice canopy...BUT...I entered my landing approach too high, came in on half brakes, and flaired too high. Wow, did that hurt! I found out what wonderful things Docs can do for crushed vertebaes. I can't get back up fo at least a couple weeks.
I know my mistakes started at 100 ft, and the one that did the damage was at about 30 feet.
My instructors didn't have much to say to me, other than compliment me on all the good stuff I did. Giveme some critism, please, and point out my mistakes to me.



I would put some money that you crushed T12 and L1 verts. There is a surgical fix called a kyphoplasty. Hopefully, there is not more than 25 degrees curve in that area as anything over that is likely to need surgical intervention.

I only know about this because I also had a stupid hurts landing "I mean I was fighting a 2000# bull and after picking it up I lost my grip and... B|"

Anyways, I have been out for 3 months. However, I am feeling pretty good. So I signed up for a canopy control class so I can make sure not to repeat!

Heal fast


Blue Skies,

Daniel

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PLFs work great for softening bad landings, one of the lasting lessons from skateboarding is that its way better to disapate forward velocity by rolling action in event of a fall. Also in my early stages of AFF I did a few landings on my but when I felt I was too fast for normal landing, never got hurt but then read about that as being worst way to mess up your spine w/ compression fracture, never did that again !
Now I contact w/ bent legs as taught, if minimum forward velocity, stand up landing. What you will find as you progress w/ AFF is that you will need to adjust flare w/ wind speed... low wind speed usally means faster landings.....higher wind speeds usually mean soft landings. If you are going faster then PLF it.....
It gets easier w/ more jumps you do, trick is to survive early jumps until you figure it out.

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I did my 3rd AFF 3 weeks ago...the first this year. Exit was great, signs and turns were great, good pull, nice canopy...BUT...I entered my landing approach too high, came in on half brakes, and flaired too high. Wow, did that hurt! I found out what wonderful things Docs can do for crushed vertebaes. I can't get back up fo at least a couple weeks.
I know my mistakes started at 100 ft, and the one that did the damage was at about 30 feet.
My instructors didn't have much to say to me, other than compliment me on all the good stuff I did. Giveme some critism, please, and point out my mistakes to me.



I never had a hard landing but I did have problems with flaring too high through level 10. Are you looking out at a 45 or straight down? On those first ~10 I was looking straight down but once I started looking out at a 45 it made all the difference in the world. Since then I've stood a majority of my landings and I don't usually flare high anymore but when I do I just stay in the 2 position until I'm low enough to go to 3.

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I did my 3rd AFF 3 weeks ago...the first this year. Exit was great, signs and turns were great, good pull, nice canopy...BUT...I entered my landing approach too high, came in on half brakes, and flaired too high. Wow, did that hurt!



Did you unflare at 30ft? Or stall out? Esp with the student canopies, you can often get away with the high flare, but nothing forgives letting the toggles go that low.

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It gets easier w/ more jumps you do, trick is to survive early jumps until you figure it out.



i love this. this has certainly been the way i've had to approach it!

i don't usually have a lot of trouble with the landing pattern, but i do have trouble with the speed and timing of my flare. i've survived all 84 of my landings and i still don't have it figured out. i've stood up about 15 of them. hopefully i'll keep surviving until i do figure it out. :)
Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

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Now you know why instructors beat PLFs into your head... bet you wish you actually did one, eh? :S Without video, there's no way for anyone here to be all that specific, so talk to some experienced jumpers that saw your landing. Realistically, you have 3 jumps, your landings aren't going to be ideal after only 3 tries at it, it's a skill that needs to be learned. You'll get there. I'm more concerned about your lack of PLF.


Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

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Having watched hundreds of students land the primary cause of serious injury in cases like yours is “surging” the canopy near the ground. You stated you flared too high. Did you let up on the toggles again near the ground, even a little bit? Do you think you might have and not known it?
"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

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I was on the radio. One way. I heard "Flair! Flair!"
(I think!) But maybe I was flairing and he was saying Don't Flair! (-:
I do still have confidence in my instructors and the dropzone. After I landed, I heard on the radio, "Wave if you're OK!", because I was right to the end of the dropzone, quite a ways away from the clubhouse and my instructor. By the way I did wave, because it didn't want my wife and son to freak out. The cart still came out and picked me up, however.

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Did you unflare at 30ft? Or stall out? Esp with the student canopies, you can often get away with the high flare, but nothing forgives letting the toggles go that low.



I did this multiple times with very large student canopies, you can still get hurt.

Best to assume a PLF if you're stalling 30ft+ above the ground.

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I did my 3rd AFF 3 weeks ago...the first this year. Exit was great, signs and turns were great, good pull, nice canopy...BUT...I entered my landing approach too high, came in on half brakes, and flaired too high. Wow, did that hurt!



Did you unflare at 30ft? Or stall out? Esp with the student canopies, you can often get away with the high flare, but nothing forgives letting the toggles go that low.



Agreed. In addition, approaching the flare point in half brakes - an intuitive "student" thing to do - robs you of a decent flare. The flare draws its power from forward airspeed; rob yourself of forward speed at flare time, and you rob yourself of some of the power of your flare. If feel you must make a braked approach, gently (so as not to surge) return to full flight no lower than 100 ft, so that you can flare from full flight.

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I remember wanting at least 10 seconds of full flight before your flare point. This will give the canopy time to recover so you have full speed and normal flight for maximum power in the flare.
It will keep you from surging or still have the canopy in a dive when you are wanting to flare. If you realize you started flaring to high, hold where you are, prepare for a PLF, and finish the flare a little faster when you get closer to the ground. You are going to loose a lot of your forward speed.

Be sure to go over this with your instructors once you get back. They will be able to provide better input since they were actually there. Everything here is just speculation and personal experience with their own situation. Once you start getting a bit more comfortable on your pattern and landings, asking your instructors about flat turns might not be bad either.

Learn to be happy. You can't be there for anybody else in life if you can't learn to be there for yourself.

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The original poster ought to be talking with his instructors, and in general people should get some instruction before trying these sorts of things. That said

While being in full-flight makes getting a decent landing easier, it's not necessary and braked approaches are a skill you need to master before you have to use them or downsize to a canopy where figuring them out will be harder. Braked approaches are tricker under smaller canopies but especially not a big deal at accuracy/student wing loadings. I've landed canopies 105 to 245 square feet, .65-1.8 wingloadings, F111 seven cells to ellipticals (but don't go quite as deep on the brakes there) this way. Done properly they'll get you the same vertical speed you'd have with a flare from full-flight although you don't have as much excess energy you can use to kill your forward speed.

Early in your career if you get hung up on always flaring from full flight, sooner or later you'll try to return to full flight with too little altitude. Maybe you'll barely get back from a long spot, make a flat turn into the wind at a very low altitude, and not have enough room to return to full flight. The canopy will dive in front of you and surge to faster than trim speed and even with a flare (the canopy is still in front of you, so flaring pendulums you into the ground) you'll land a lot harder than you would have if you didn't manage to flare all the way from braked flight. The difference can even be between broken bones (at faster than trim speed) and a comfortable stand-up landing (even if things don't go as well as they can) but note that trying to salvage a bad landing is more likely to hurt you than just PLFing.

Braked approach pictures attached. While not skydiving it's illustrative.

You can go too far. Eventually the canopy will start flying backwards or get real ugly. Before that happens you want to slowly ease off the brakes but may stop short of full flight so you don't get too much of a surge.

A classic accuracy approach starts the same but often ends with forward speed reduced to zero before getting to ground level. You don't want to do that without a soft landing area like pea gravel (especially with the risk of going too far). You don't want to do that with a canopy not stable in a sink. It's a question of whether you put the emphasis on getting the most accurate (stop over the target) or most comfortable (don't risk a hard stall that dumps you on your back) finish.

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Braked approaches are tricker under smaller canopies but especially not a big deal at accuracy/student wing loadings (I've landed canopies 105 to 245 square feet that way).



Attached are braked approached landings on a 245 Sharpchuter. As you said it a skill every jumper should have in his bag of tricks.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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Ouch.

I know it's easier said than done, but I found that it's best to force yourself not be afraid of the ground/landing. That results in flaring high sometimes. Also causes some other stuff.

Be one with the canopy. It is your best friend. Hehe.

I've had a couple of crazy landings myself. No serious injuries. Just banged up my knees a few times, but thank god for that.

Oh and do take Scott Miller's class if you ever get the chance. That shit does wonders.
Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

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Thanks for all the Great advice/replies! I went to the drop zone today for the first time since my injury. Ahh, the magic! My son went to jump, and I went to discuss (bullshit), and study landings. I learned a lot. Interestingly, the wind conditions were nearly identical to when I got hurt. Very light, variable winds. Guys were coming in hard, and one guy with 93 jumps broke his ankle.

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