Helmets

[dorbie 0]

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Not based on my research.

Umm..yeah ok if you want to believe that.

There might be something to this d30 foam. The testing methods are a bit over the top but it seems to work.

http://dvice.com/archives/2007/10/d30-foam-allows-helmet-wearers.php

Sparky

Any skydiving helmet could pass the shovel whack test. The d30 is interesting because it is flexible until impact but that is solving a different problem from the one skydiving helmets suffer from. i.e. getting 'cool' fashion victims to wear a helmet that's comfortable and looks/behaves like a garment.

It may be a good solution for a helmet shell liner offering comfort and blunt impact resistance, but that's not clear. Where are the numbers? These online video demos are just hype and marketing.

[dorbie 0]

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Not based on my research.

Umm..yeah ok if you want to believe that.

There might be something to this d30 foam. The testing methods are a bit over the top but it seems to work.

http://dvice.com/archives/2007/10/d30-foam-allows-helmet-wearers.php

Sparky

Still, some protecs are certified to certain standards while not a single skydiving helmet can claim any certification at all (to my knowledge). Which makes the protec safer in my book.

On the other hand I don't wear one as I perfer the cool theme of skydiving helmets

I tend to agree with this, and it's why Oregon Aero can be taken seriously, they provide some impact numbers.

[pilotdave 0]

If you think it's easy, go for it. There's plenty of interest. I've been to an Army helmet testing lab and it's just as simple as you're describing. They have drop towers, instrumented heads, weights on pendulums, and all that other stuff. Just need lots of helmets and an expert to analyze the data. Easy and cheap. Well, except for all that helmet testing and analysis. Easy and cheap to write about at least.

It's easy to look at materials and guess at which one will absorb impact better. But there's a lot more to it than that. How does the helmet spread out the force? Do parts of the helmet concentrate forces? What if the helmet takes an impact right on a rivet or a hinge? Would it be better or worse than no helmet at all? Does the helmet move in relation to the head when it gets hit from certain angles? And coming up with test criteria would be a whole project. Where and how hard do you hit the helmets?

There have been many threads on here asking what helmet is the safest. There's interest. People think the protec provides the best protection because it has certifications. But you can't compare a tested helmet with an untested helmet. They need to be tested to the same criteria. And I am not sure if the criteria skateboarding helmets are tested to is right for skydiving.

Dave

[dorbie 0]

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If you think it's easy, go for it. There's plenty of interest. I've been to an Army helmet testing lab and it's just as simple as you're describing. They have drop towers, instrumented heads, weights on pendulums, and all that other stuff. Just need lots of helmets and an expert to analyze the data. Easy and cheap. Well, except for all that helmet testing and analysis. Easy and cheap to write about at least.

It's easy to look at materials and guess at which one will absorb impact better. But there's a lot more to it than that. How does the helmet spread out the force? Do parts of the helmet concentrate forces? What if the helmet takes an impact right on a rivet or a hinge? Would it be better or worse than no helmet at all? Does the helmet move in relation to the head when it gets hit from certain angles? And coming up with test criteria would be a whole project. Where and how hard do you hit the helmets?

There have been many threads on here asking what helmet is the safest. There's interest. People think the protec provides the best protection because it has certifications. But you can't compare a tested helmet with an untested helmet. They need to be tested to the same criteria. And I am not sure if the criteria skateboarding helmets are tested to is right for skydiving.

Dave

There are degrees of testing, and it does not need a setup like a US army helmet test lab to produce some numbers for helmets. I'd be happy with a simple single standard constrained drop test, perhaps concussion level in the danger zone and see what the accelerometer says, forehead, sides and back. I don't think a standard should be set, but numbers would lead to informed choices. It doesn't need an expert to publish what the peak g-force impact load was on the head. Reality can be more complex but big deal, I'd be happy if we got this.

Of course there are labs who'll do that for you today and give you a report, I am neither interested in a career change nor do I manufacture & sell head impact mitigation equipment but why would anyone be so foolish as to go into competition with numerous labs to service a tiny proposed market (the helmet makers) that simply does not seem to be interested for the most part.

The labs are out there:
http://www.bhsi.org/testlabs.htm

[LloydDobbler 2]

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There have been many threads on here asking what helmet is the safest. There's interest. People think the protec provides the best protection because it has certifications. But you can't compare a tested helmet with an untested helmet. They need to be tested to the same criteria. And I am not sure if the criteria skateboarding helmets are tested to is right for skydiving.

And this is the point I keep bringing up whenever this debate comes up. I harbor no illusions that a carbon fiber 'cool' helmet is as safe as a Pro-tec...but by the same token, it's tough to confidently say that it isn't.

Simple fact is, in order to compare the two adequately, they need to be tested under the same conditions - eliminating as many variables as possible. Until someone does that, these arguments will keep on going. And I don't foresee anyone making the effort to test them anytime soon.

Signatures are the new black.

[dorbie 0]

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But you can't compare a tested helmet with an untested helmet. They need to be tested to the same criteria. And I am not sure if the criteria skateboarding helmets are tested to is right for skydiving.

And this is the point I keep bringing up whenever this debate comes up. I harbor no illusions that a carbon fiber 'cool' helmet is as safe as a Pro-tec...but by the same token, it's tough to confidently say that it isn't.

Actually it's pretty easy to say that in most cases.

There's no doubt from anyone who knows the physics of impacts, that a protec is better than most, however exactly what you're protecting against is critical if comparing two good helmets not a helmet and a skydiving 'hat'. Most skydiving 'hats' don't come close to a protec on any impact criteria. However if you want to get serious about testing there are real design tradeoffs to be made for keeping a jumper conscious after a moderate impact vs. keeping a jumper alive after a hard impact. These are not entirely compatible objectives, however most skydiving 'hats' don't come close to a protec helmet.

[Tolgak 0]

I went to the SkySystems factory yesterday and tried on some of what they had.

I tried on the HR2 which I liked very much and was comfortable. I checked the construction on it and yes, the padding is quite inferior to Pro-Tec pads. The shell, however, is very solid and I have no doubts that it would protect from a collision with the aircraft tail on exit. For ground impacts, it would be pretty much useless. There is just no way for the liner to disperse the impact enough to provide near as much protection as a pro-tec would. It would do quite a bit in reducing the impact force but I don't see it preventing any concussions.

On the other hand, it's very tight against the head. I don't see any chance of it getting caught on anything, unlike a pro-tec, which has that chance (I've caught the brim on the door before and it really messed with my exit). I'm leaning towards the HR2, because I think there are some things I can do to it to increase protection and because it's just so damn comfortable. Considering how I am with annoyances such as an uncomfortable helmet, I think it would be safer for me to wear something that doesn't have a comfort problem.

Dropzones are terrible places for inspiration. What does one think when one looks up for a sign only to see a bunch of people falling?

[ROK 0]

I too have a large egg. I really wanted the Hurricane, but got the HR2. It's taken a beating and still looks and wears good. Trying on the XL Hurricane at Skysystems, they took it away from me when I pried it open and slid it on. I thought my eyes were going to pop out.

There is one helmet that I like better. The Skydance ION. I use mine with camera equipment. It's made with Kevlar, and is very light. It also doesn't look like a space helmet when I place it on my head.

As far as the music...distractions =