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FallingHazard

Can I check your shoulder flap?

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I made it out to the dropzone yesterday for a spur-of-the-moment tandem (my second -- and my wife was along and she hasn't done it before). I'm now giving some serious consideration to saving up and getting certified come next summer.

The gang out at the DZ seemed to be having a great time chilling out on the ground and jumping out of the plane. Lounging about on the carpets after folding their parachutes and grinning like fools on the way in after every jump.

The ride up was... cozy... But everyone was cool, even the guy who ended up sitting practically in my lap (and my tandem instructor who ended up having me in his lap). We cracked some half-funny jokes (my instructor complained about a cramp in his foot. I said it was a good thing we weren't walking down).

You all know about the ride down way better than me. So I'll skip that part.

But what convinced me the most was when we were coming out of the hangar and going out to the plane a diver who was coming in from his previous jump looked at my instructor and said, "Can I check your shoulder flap?"

You see, my instructor had stowed a foldover tab of some sort on his rig wrong. As the guy tucked it in he commented that it would end up slapping him in the neck in freefall.

There was just something about how he asked and a sense that he looks at everyone's rig who passes him as they're heading for the plane.

So just to get this out there now, if I go through with this and decide to get certified then...
Please ask if you can check my shoulder flap.
Or my chest strap.
Go ahead and ask me if you can check my chinstrap
Or a leg strap.
If you think it is necessary then ask if you can check my jock strap.
Anything you think deserves a check before I get out of the plane, please ask me if you can check it.

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yea checking and looking over other peoples gear is fairly common. I find myslef in the plane looking at other peoples chest strap routing, three rings, etc. all the time. everyone at my DZ is pretty ok with checking others or having the guy behind them in the plane checking their main closing pin when we are getting close to door time. I have seen people that get moody if people touch their gear without letting them know first though, so it's pretty common to ask just to let you know that they are going to put thier hands on your gear so you don't get pissed. Oh and I had a riser cover flap come open once in freefall and HOLY CRAP does it hurt slapping you in the face. you never forget to ckeck to make sure they are well tucked after that.

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many jumpers also like to be unofficial safety monitors, when it comes to thier friends and the new students at their DZ.

the key is Tact And Discretion...

It's important IMHO to be sure Not to cast any negative light on anyone,, especially an Instructor...

So loudly commenting about gear which may be out of synch, or not quite as we would like, needs to be done in a quiet and non elaborate way...

NO TM wants to be chastised in front of their student, and NO experienced jumper should be OVER critical , when noticing another's lapse.

Keep it low key.

I have occasionally sidled up to a TM, and mentioned, " that drogue is sticking out More than necessary",,, or "can I better stow your main closing flap"? ... and their student is kept completely unaware.. ( the student does NOT need to be questioning the thoroughness of the instructors pre jump preparation, as they are heading to the plane.. right????)


In the plane, a quiet comment can help someone, re their gear, withour harming their credibility.

like many things,, in life, it's all about the delivery, and not just about the message..

make all such comments, in a cool and controlled way,, and Not with some Loud, or
nervous, comment..

keep your eyes open pre-boarding, during the climb and prior to exit...
and hope that others are doing the same for you...

Praise in public, Criticize in private...

jmy:)a 3914
nscr 1817

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Someone told me to buckle my helmet strap right before I ran out of a CASA. He didn't make a big deal about it, just told me "hey, you're gonna loose your helmet. Might wanna buckle that" I told him thanks and off we went. Nothing else needed to be said and a big deal wasn't made. Sure, someone might mess with you over a beer later on, but at the moment the problem was addressed and then it was business time.

Everyone can make silly mistakes, and sometimes serious ones. I, for one, appreciate the way in which we try to look out for one another. I'll never mind someone helping me out with a gear issue. I also agree with Jimmy, just try not to be a dick about it ;)

I will be kissing hands and shaking babies all afternoon. Thanks for all your support! *bows*

SCS #8251

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keep your eyes open pre-boarding, during the climb and prior to exit...
and hope that others are doing the same for you...



Yep. Give everyone around you a visual gear check.
You will eventually identify a major problem.

Quote

Praise in public, Criticize in private...



It is easy enough to lean over and quietly mention something.
B|

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keep your eyes open pre-boarding, during the climb and prior to exit...
and hope that others are doing the same for you...



Yep. Give everyone around you a visual gear check.
You will eventually identify a major problem.

Quote

Praise in public, Criticize in private...



It is easy enough to lean over and quietly mention something.
B|



Doing demonstration jumps, one becomes quite adept at letting each other know something isn't 'quite right' without making a big deal in front of a crowd of wuffos.

I usually just look at the area of concern and say~

I know something YOU don't know! ;):ph34r::)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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i agree keeping it low key. while waiting for the plane i noticed another jumpers chest strap misrouted, i pulled her aside, placed 2 fingers on her chest strap and pulled it loose completly undoing it...she turned white as a ghost. we all need to look out for eachother

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Sometimes you can feel free to yell though IMO: hey why's there a bit of pink pull-up cord sticking out from under your main flap?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

And sometimes it's funny, as the newly licensed jumper loudly complained about the riser covers being open on a crw rig ;) What was funny was that after it was explained to her she KEPT on complaining :D And it was a very nice crw rig too, no canopies sticking out or nothing :)


ciel bleu,
Saskia

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to quote Brian Germains old sig line...lets take care of each other...

if we look out for each other we have an extra set or sets of eyes trying to help us stay alive cause lets face it we are human first and foremost

Dave
http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

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We all act as informal safety, because I hope thet the jumper next to me is doing the same.:o

But also, there are mistakes that if left uncorrected could do more than injure that individual - it could hurt a me or the others in the aircraft.[:/]

So its not the selfless act that a lot may profess - its also an act of self preservation. :)

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So just to get this out there now, if I go through with this and decide to get certified then...
Please ask if you can check my shoulder flap.
Or my chest strap.
Go ahead and ask me if you can check my chinstrap
Or a leg strap.
If you think it is necessary then ask if you can check my jock strap.
Anything you think deserves a check before I get out of the plane, please ask me if you can check it.




Though the others have pulled this thread in its natural direction, I just wanted to get back to the OP and point out:

Keep that attitude. I see way too many people not asking for a 'pin check.' No matter how many jumps you have, it never hurts to have someone else look you over. That being said, it also never hurts to look over someone else, either.

The points people make about glancing over people's gear in the plane are also well-made. If someone hadn't been scanning over people's chest straps on the ride to altitude, I might have found myself falling to the earth out of my rig one hot summer day over the desert at Cal City. All because I was rushing to make a load. B|:S

We're a self-policing sport...and we're also a self-supporting sport. Good on you for recognizing that. If you decide to get your license, keep it up. As the saying goes, the life you save may be your own....
Signatures are the new black.

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No matter how many jumps you have, it never hurts to have someone else look you over.



I beg to differ. I have had people give me a pin-check whereupon they proceeded to also check the reserve pin. This is of course fine, if you know what you're doing.

Once I tried landing only to discover that the reserve flap wasn't properly closed. After that, you don't touch my gear if I don't know you. Especially after I've put it on.

My point is just that the well-meant pin-check is not always a blessing.
HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

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If you will read the original and following posts - we are talking about gear checks, not just pin checks. As a student, and now as a license holder, I have found riser covers and other things that needed attention. None involved hands on inspection, just a casual glance before boarding a plane.

And it helped me a lot to have licensed jumpers ask me to check them. It got me in the mindset that I should be looking at everyone no matter the comparison of license ratings.

Students respond to attitude - both good and bad. How you treat them is how they are being groomed to behave. If you scowl and tell them to get away your breaking them down instead of building good habits.

That person that you just said no to may already be seeing something that could be dangerous and be trying to "break the ice" since your an experienced jumper.

If your unconfortable with them having hands on - that's understandable. But your response should be "Sure, give me a visual. But please, no hands-on check."

Your reply sounded very abrupt and if that's the way you reply to students or strangers you could come across poorly.

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> we are talking about gear checks, not just pin checks.

A pin check involves checking the main and reserve pins and associated flaps/bridles - basically what the jumper can't see.

A gear check involves a pin check plus checking everything else - 3-rings, riser covers, friction adapters etc.

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Your reply sounded very abrupt and if that's the way you reply to students or strangers you could come across poorly.



It was a response to a blanket statement that something was always good and as such, my statement stands. Anyone who knows me will say that I know how to be polite to people. ;)
HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

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Your reply sounded very abrupt and if that's the way you reply to students or strangers you could come across poorly.



It was a response to a blanket statement that something was always good and as such, my statement stands. Anyone who knows me will say that I know how to be polite to people. ;)



I used the words 'it never hurts' instead of 'it's a good thing' - my mistake. I think most experienced jumpers got what I was trying to say. I also think it's common sense to only ask someone whom you trust to check your pins.

Your point is well taken, and is a good one for us all to remember - but keep in mind, I was responding to someone with 2 tandem jumps. They're not concerned with arguing about the semantics of the phrase 'it never hurts' at this point - all they're concerned about is the big picture: looking out for each other. I think that's an attitude they should keep.


Pin checks save lives. That's a blanket statement I'm willing to make. If I qualified it with every 'what if' there is to account for the person doing the checking potentially doing something stupid (like not closing your reserve flap, or drinking before jumping, or...hell, I dunno, pulling out your reserve pin to make sure it's all nice & shiny), we'd be here all day.

Point is, get a pin check - from someone you trust - before jumping, and keep your eyes open for misrigging on others' gear.


**to clarify for all those reading, the word 'trust' in this instance is used to indicate "someone in whose ability to check your gear and/or pins you trust," and in no way implies or warrants that any person you trust - e.g., your banker, or your grandmother, or your friend Larry from the pub - is in any way capable of safely offering a 'pin check'. Of course, YMMV. :P;)
Signatures are the new black.

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... I was responding to someone with 2 tandem jumps. They're not concerned with arguing about the semantics of the phrase 'it never hurts' at this point - all they're concerned about is the big picture: looking out for each other. I think that's an attitude they should keep.



A point willingly conceeded. :)
Cheers
HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

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I have no problem with someone giving me a gear check, BUT NEVER start fucking with my gear without bringing what you are about to do to my attention first. That being said, I have no problems asking for a gear check and asking others if they would like me to check their gear.:)

Muff #5048

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I see way too many people not asking for a 'pin check.' No matter how many jumps you have, it never hurts to have someone else look you over.



I for one never ask people to check my pins. I very much appreciate when someone comments on an open flap or anything else that looks wrong. But:
1. I trust my V3 to keep both pins in place after my own pre-flight check.
2. I don't have a colored mark on my PC kill line, so it's always white. This makes some people take "an extra good look", and a lot of extra "is it supposed to ..?" in the plane.
3. My reserve flap is sliiightly on the short side, so it can be tricky to get the bottom part of the flap under the right flaps (4 and 5) while the rig is on my back. A bit too easy to only put it back under flap #9.

If anyone asks me to check their pins, I will. If anyone asks if I want them to check mine, I will say yes - expecting people who ask about it to know what they're doing.

I'm willing to change my attitude if there's a recorded history of incidents happening because of missing pin-checks on similar gear, though. Until then, I don't see the "bad attitude" in not asking for 'em.

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