Jcoff89 0 #1 July 31, 2009 everyone battle to the death with pros and cons. I've been leaning towards sabre2 but i dont know enough about safire2 to rule it out yet. (it would be 170/169 @ WL ~1.35). ok go. battle.http://www.turboskydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scootersv 0 #2 July 31, 2009 And the "winner" should fight then against Pilot 168. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jcoff89 0 #3 July 31, 2009 well see..... i like canopies that have a 2 in the name. like a sabre2, crossfire2, jvx, ya know?http://www.turboskydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #4 July 31, 2009 It's really personal preference. Some people really like the Sabre 2, some people really like the Safire 2. I've jumped both in the size you're looking for. I'm now jumping a Sabre 2 150 and will shortly be switching to a Safire 2 149. I prefer the Safire 2 to the Sabre 2. I've also jumped a Sabre 2 190. As you can tell from my jump numbers (198 right now), I'm no expert or anything but here's my opinion. The Sabre 2 has higher riser pressure, is trimmed more steeply, holds a dive for longer (not that much but a little) and tends to have sketchier openings. The flare is higher up in the stroke which is also played out in the way it turns. The Sabre 2 150 I'm jumping right now is a very good example of the breed, it doesn't have anywhere near the number of issues on opening that my Sabre 2 170 had. The 170 used to hunt while it was sniveling, have closed end cells and open off heading on almost every jump. The 150 has the odd off heading (probably caused by me) and has closed end cells which are typical of the Sabre 2 but they're not that bad. The Safire 2 has slightly lower riser pressure which means that while my recovery arc is quicker, I'm also able to hold the risers longer. This means that, while the Safire 2 isn't as well set up for learning to swoop (if that's what you're into) it's easier to play with risers on the Safire so in a way easier to learn up high (IMO). The openings are generally better but you get the odd closed end cells & off heading openings (again, probably me). The flare on the Safire 2 is *much* further down the stroke and this is accentuated by Icarus always having very long brake lines. I had a good 6 inches of play in mine on a canopy with < 80 jumps. Doesn't really bother me though. The thing I find most difficult to put into words is the way the different canopies turn. I feel like the Safire 2 has a more progressive response to toggle input whereas the Sabre 2 is quite linear. I think this is just another view on the power being low in the flare but it makes the Safire 2 different to fly and, for me, more enjoyable in the air. Obviously the best thing to do would be to jump both if you can to get a feel for the differences but be aware of the different flare when you head up and the length in the brake lines. I'll be trying a friend's Safire 2 149 this weekend and may consider it instead of the Sabre 2 I currently have. Given that the Sabre 2 is actually very good on openings (which was the main reason I tried the Safire 2 in the first place) I may well stick with the Sabre 2 but I guess I'll see how I go this weekend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #5 July 31, 2009 Quote And the "winner" should fight then against Pilot 168. +1 Sold my Sabre2 to buy a Pilot.Edit to add: Ever wonder why there isn't a Pilot2?Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #6 July 31, 2009 Quote Edit to add: Ever wonder why there isn't a Pilot2? If you're being serious, age of the design. Though with recent trends towards low pack 7 cells, maybe we'd see a triathlon2 (ZPX) one of these days? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #7 July 31, 2009 You can get the Triathlon in ZPX now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #8 July 31, 2009 Aerodyne says you can get any of their mains in zpx now. And Ive heard mention of a possible zpx reserve some time in the future.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottyE 0 #9 July 31, 2009 I love my Pilot 210 sweet opening so far and tons of flare ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #10 July 31, 2009 Quote I love my Pilot 210 sweet opening so far and tons of flare ! how does it compare to the Safire2 or a Sabre2 ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotsR4pimps 0 #11 August 1, 2009 Get a pilot man!!!! badass canopy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linebckr83 3 #12 August 1, 2009 I can't comment on Safires besides what I've seen others do with them. I have jumped a Pilot 188 for over a hundred jumps and a sabre 2 190 a couple times. Pilot pros: OPENINGS. Not a single one of mine could be any better. I really liked the responsiveness and predictable turns. It seemed to build up speed very naturally. Flare. I liked being able to flare different ways. A sharper flare would really plane it out for surfing-related stuff, while a slow deliberate flare started a little higher was nice for accuracy landings and precision. Great glide ratio for long spots. Nice colored packing tabs for those who still don't know how to flake a canopy Pilot cons: The only thing I really didn't like was the short recovery arc. But that isn't neecessarily a bad thing. There's my opinion of the Pilot with my experience. I'd recommend it to anyone as an intermediate canopy, but not really one to learn high performance landings with. As for my small amount of experience with the Sabre 2, I wasn't a fan of the openings, but some people get consistently good ones. Probably just one of those things. It felt about the same with inputs, maybe a little snappier, although the recovery arc is a bit longer. Great powerful flare too. "Are you coming to the party? Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!" Flying Hellfish #828 Dudist #52 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #13 August 1, 2009 The only real consideration is which side of the country you live on: west coast = Pilot east coast = Sabre/Safire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ironmanjay 0 #14 August 1, 2009 Can you demo both of them to see which one you like better. All of us arent going to be jumping YOUR canopy so decide for your self by jumping both Since we got off topic with the Pilot. My preference is the crossfire 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #15 August 1, 2009 QuoteGet a pilot man!!!! badass canopy How do you compare the badassness of a Pilot to that of a Sabre2 or Safire2 ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
druvaughn 0 #16 August 1, 2009 I demoed all 3 being talked about when I was going from a 230 Spectre to something a little smaller. It was quite a while ago, and I selected the Safire2, have 1 in each of my rigs and put about 400 jumps on them... The Pilot had the best openings (always on heading, but not always soft) and flare, but was less responsive than the other 2 in flight. The Safire opened better than the Sabre (and mostly on heading and softer than either), turned quicker, and flared similarly to the Sabre. The Sabre2 210 opened different everytime which turned me off, especially as they traditionally have a better reputation than that... I have been told great things of PDs service as well as Aerodyne, and I was really disappointed with the delivery time of my Safire, but I understand that they turned that around since I ordered mine. All told, I love my Safires, and have since demoed the Crossfire and will be upgrading shortly... Good Luck. Best, Dru- - "Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
verticalflier 0 #17 August 1, 2009 QuoteQuote Edit to add: Ever wonder why there isn't a Pilot2? If you're being serious, age of the design. Though with recent trends towards low pack 7 cells, maybe we'd see a triathlon2 (ZPX) one of these days? You will not see a Triathlon 2, since there is nothing that needs fixing in the one we have right now, but you can always order one made out of ZPX as it is an optional material. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
verticalflier 0 #18 August 1, 2009 QuoteQuote Edit to add: Ever wonder why there isn't a Pilot2? If you're being serious, age of the design. It is not the age of the design. We just got it right the first time around :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pinkfairy 0 #19 August 1, 2009 Ditto about the Pilot: Swooping doesn't interest me, and the short recovery arc suits me fine when building speed with both frint risers. My experience is with lightly wingloaded Pilot 132 and 124. Fun canopy to fly, easy on toggles and harness input. First class openings, really nice, I do like Scectre openings better, but that's a seven cell and not really comparable. Just fewer things happening above my head at opening time because there are fewer cells.Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet. I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilotsR4pimps 0 #20 September 2, 2009 lol. I dont know. They're pretty much the same wing. Although the pilot has color coded line tabs!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,384 #21 September 2, 2009 >Get a pilot man!!!! badass canopy Of the Sabre2/Safire2/Pilot, the Pilot is the most well-behaved in flight, and the least suited for swooping. The smaller Pilots have a shorter recovery arc and tend to open a bit harder than their Icarus/PD cousins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BDashe 0 #22 September 2, 2009 Pilot- Boring sabre2- openings blow and boring safire2- generally good openings, fun, swoopable, average flare. I'm on my third safire2, will be going to an xfire2 in about a year or 2-300 more jumps. Never been a fan of PD except their reserve. Always kick myself in the forehead with their openings and the glide sucks balls compared to Icarus. Remember though- when choosing a canopy the most important aspect is to choose fast colors. If you end up with slow colors, you WILL NOT have any fun, and your swoops will be ruined.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 0 #23 September 2, 2009 You also might want to consider a Fusion. I've jumped all these canopies, with most of my jumps on spectres and safires. Right now I own a pilot 124 and a fusion 120, the fusion is comparable to a sabre2: more HP than the pilot by far, and hence of the 2 I prefer the pilot for wingsuiting, but the fusion is a great canopy and cheaper than a sabre2 and more consistant openings too. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cmdrjay1 0 #24 September 4, 2009 I bought a Sabre 2 150, flew it for several jumps then bought a Safire 2 149. I needed a 2nd rig over a few weekends, borrowed my buddy's Pilot 150 and put about 30 jumps on it. This was my experience: Safire 2 = long snivel, slow opening. Sabre 2 = openings are much more positive Pilot = somewhere in between The Sabre 2 was undeniably more aggressive flying, had the lightest riser pressure and had a more powerful flare. That being said, the openings were a little too harsh for my liking. The Safire 2's flare was also good, but obviously deeper in the toggle stroke. The riser pressure felt heaviest on the Safire. The Pilot was fun to fly, but the controls felt a little mushy to me. Individual canopies can differ, so YMMV. I ended up keeping the Safire, the openings are just too nice and consistent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites darrenspooner 0 #25 September 5, 2009 I did 60 jumps on a Sabre 2 150 (WL about 1.3, which I know is way above what I should have been jumping) and ended up selling it and getting a saffire 2 159. I was having terrible openings on the sabre 2, squirrely diving openings finally resulting in a spinning mal and cutaway at jump 122. Had it tested by PD with impeccable service, and ended up with the same problem on the demo I used while it was being tested. So I got rid and got a saffire 2. It has more predictable openings. It is clearly the case that my body position and packing were to blame, and things are better now. But I had similar, but less severe, problems with the saffire for a while. It now opens beautifully every time and I have learned to 'dance' well with it, which I hadn't done with the sabre 2. What is interesting was that I had the same shit openings on the Pilot demo jumps I did. Conclusion - try them all, pack properly, go dead man during opening and focus on the horizon, and go with the one that works for you. My lasting impression was that the sabre 2 had superior flying characteristics once open and its flare was undeniably stronger and more robust than the other two. That said I don't know shit. All I know is that they are all good canopies, the problems I had with all three were a result of my packing and body position on opening, but of all three I prefer the saffire 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
pinkfairy 0 #19 August 1, 2009 Ditto about the Pilot: Swooping doesn't interest me, and the short recovery arc suits me fine when building speed with both frint risers. My experience is with lightly wingloaded Pilot 132 and 124. Fun canopy to fly, easy on toggles and harness input. First class openings, really nice, I do like Scectre openings better, but that's a seven cell and not really comparable. Just fewer things happening above my head at opening time because there are fewer cells.Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet. I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotsR4pimps 0 #20 September 2, 2009 lol. I dont know. They're pretty much the same wing. Although the pilot has color coded line tabs!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #21 September 2, 2009 >Get a pilot man!!!! badass canopy Of the Sabre2/Safire2/Pilot, the Pilot is the most well-behaved in flight, and the least suited for swooping. The smaller Pilots have a shorter recovery arc and tend to open a bit harder than their Icarus/PD cousins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #22 September 2, 2009 Pilot- Boring sabre2- openings blow and boring safire2- generally good openings, fun, swoopable, average flare. I'm on my third safire2, will be going to an xfire2 in about a year or 2-300 more jumps. Never been a fan of PD except their reserve. Always kick myself in the forehead with their openings and the glide sucks balls compared to Icarus. Remember though- when choosing a canopy the most important aspect is to choose fast colors. If you end up with slow colors, you WILL NOT have any fun, and your swoops will be ruined.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #23 September 2, 2009 You also might want to consider a Fusion. I've jumped all these canopies, with most of my jumps on spectres and safires. Right now I own a pilot 124 and a fusion 120, the fusion is comparable to a sabre2: more HP than the pilot by far, and hence of the 2 I prefer the pilot for wingsuiting, but the fusion is a great canopy and cheaper than a sabre2 and more consistant openings too. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmdrjay1 0 #24 September 4, 2009 I bought a Sabre 2 150, flew it for several jumps then bought a Safire 2 149. I needed a 2nd rig over a few weekends, borrowed my buddy's Pilot 150 and put about 30 jumps on it. This was my experience: Safire 2 = long snivel, slow opening. Sabre 2 = openings are much more positive Pilot = somewhere in between The Sabre 2 was undeniably more aggressive flying, had the lightest riser pressure and had a more powerful flare. That being said, the openings were a little too harsh for my liking. The Safire 2's flare was also good, but obviously deeper in the toggle stroke. The riser pressure felt heaviest on the Safire. The Pilot was fun to fly, but the controls felt a little mushy to me. Individual canopies can differ, so YMMV. I ended up keeping the Safire, the openings are just too nice and consistent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darrenspooner 0 #25 September 5, 2009 I did 60 jumps on a Sabre 2 150 (WL about 1.3, which I know is way above what I should have been jumping) and ended up selling it and getting a saffire 2 159. I was having terrible openings on the sabre 2, squirrely diving openings finally resulting in a spinning mal and cutaway at jump 122. Had it tested by PD with impeccable service, and ended up with the same problem on the demo I used while it was being tested. So I got rid and got a saffire 2. It has more predictable openings. It is clearly the case that my body position and packing were to blame, and things are better now. But I had similar, but less severe, problems with the saffire for a while. It now opens beautifully every time and I have learned to 'dance' well with it, which I hadn't done with the sabre 2. What is interesting was that I had the same shit openings on the Pilot demo jumps I did. Conclusion - try them all, pack properly, go dead man during opening and focus on the horizon, and go with the one that works for you. My lasting impression was that the sabre 2 had superior flying characteristics once open and its flare was undeniably stronger and more robust than the other two. That said I don't know shit. All I know is that they are all good canopies, the problems I had with all three were a result of my packing and body position on opening, but of all three I prefer the saffire 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
