Hard opening Neos?

[bofh 0]

A few friends have got themselves Neos canopies. One of them got a five great openings (crossfire like), then a Sabre like opening followed by a really hard opening giving him a really sore neck. Another friend broke some ribs during an opening of his Neos. A third person I know of have the occasional hard openings on his Neos as well.

Is Icarus having quality problems with the Neos or is it simply a bad design?

[aeronaut 1]

I did 5 demo jumps with the neos.
I had 2 extreme hard, 2 hard and 1 soft (safire like) opening. I had two days problems with my neck musculature , because I looked at the opening.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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, because I looked at the opening.

Does the curiosity kill the cat?

How about looking when the canopy still have the slider up?

[aeronaut 1]

from my experience,I would recommend to anyone who wants to demo a neos, don´t look upwards to watch the opening especially when the slider is still up, because the hard part of the opening comes later.

[rhys 0]

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Is Icarus having quality problems with the Neos or is it simply a bad design?

This canopy was not designed by NZaerosports, that is why it does not have the same opening charachtaristics as other icarus canopies.


Just get a fully crossbraced canopy that opens well, or fly your no crossbraced canopy more until you are ready.

I never saw the point in the Neos design, but maybe that is just me.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I never saw the point in the Neos design, but maybe that is just me.

They have a point, most of the load is on the center 3 cells.

[rhys 0]

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They have a point, most of the load is on the center 3 cells

From what I feel, the load is concentrated along the span of the canopy between the A and B lines, one would think they would have been better off crossbracing the front 1/3 of the canopy instead of the centre 3 cells?

I am no canopy designer however, so these is just the thoughts I have pondered.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[johnny1488 1]

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This canopy was not designed by NZaerosports, that is why it does not have the same opening charachtaristics as other icarus canopies.

You mean like the Safire2, Crossfire2, and Omni? They were all designed by CIMSA, the parent company and controlling part of Icarus Canopies.

I have over 400 jumps on my Neos, and have never had any hard openings. Everyone I have ever given it too has told me it is the best opening high performance canopy they have ever jumped.

I don't know what your friends are doing in their packing, or their orentation at pull time, but if they think there is a problem with their canopies, they should contact Icarus and they will make it right.

That being said it is an excellent design and and haven't jumped my VX since I got it.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[rhys 0]

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CIMSA, the parent company and controlling part of Icarus Canopies.

I suppose they developed Icarus?

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I don't know what your friends are doing in their packing, or their orentation at pull time, but if they think there is a problem with their canopies, they should contact Icarus and they will make it right.

That being said it is an excellent design and and haven't jumped my VX since I got it.

I know of two neos' that have been slamming the people that have been jumping them, they pack very neatly, and now jump VX's and have good openings.

Why piss around with an intermediate swooping canopy when you can have a VX?

Try a jvx and you will never go back!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[johnny1488 1]

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I suppose they developed Icarus?

No, they bought precisions shares when they got out and have run the company ever since. That is why jyro developed the jvx, because he wanted to go in a different direction than the engineers that are now developing the canopies for Icarus.

I can swoop farther on my neos than my vx. it opens better, goes faster and performs better overall. So thats why I jump it.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[rhys 0]

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I can swoop farther on my neos than my vx. it opens better, goes faster and performs better overall. So thats why I jump it.

Then you had better work on your technique, the VX is far superior canopy, the JVX is the next level again, then there is the JSX but we'll have to wait for some company to make something compareable to the JVX before that is released, a bit like when the VX was released by jyro in 1999 immediately after the velocity was annonced.

I have heard rumor of a 11 cell with ram air stabalisers from the icarus spain crowd, will be interesting, but seems like too many lines/drag to me, and stablisers are not necessary.

only time will tell i suppose.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[bofh 0]

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I have over 400 jumps on my Neos, and have never had any hard openings. Everyone I have ever given it too has told me it is the best opening high performance canopy they have ever jumped.

I don't know what your friends are doing in their packing, or their orentation at pull time, but if they think there is a problem with their canopies, they should contact Icarus and they will make it right.

The guy that broke his ribs did it after he got it back from Icarus after previous hard openings... I've rarely seen anyone pay so much attention to his packings as he does so I don't think it is pack related unless one is supposed to do something special. He's also quite experienced so I really doubt its a body position issue.

I did a six second delay jump with the 109 Neos that gave my friend a sore neck and for me it opened soft, but much less soft than my crossfire would have opened after six seconds. The next jump was done with a Neos 99 (which this far hasn't opened hard for its owner) and at terminal velocity it gave me the best opening I've ever had with a canopy.

[johnny1488 1]

You must be really good to be able to judge my swoops with out ever seeing them. Wow.

As far as the 11 cell, it actually has 3 lines per riser. Quad cascading. And just cause jyro took the stabilizer off, doesn't mean a canopy can't benefiet from having them, it just helps if they're not just pieces of flapping drag.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[NexGenSkydiver 0]

From my experience and a couple people i jump with that have neos, never heard of a hard opening......on multiple occasions i just gave the canopy a good shake then made sure the slider was quartered good and didnt tuck in the nose ever and it always opened nice.....that was a 79 loaded at 2.3 to 2.5, just my personal experiences.......

[rhys 0]

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You must be really good to be able to judge my swoops with out ever seeing them. Wow.

sheesh, a VX is a much higher performance canopy than a neos, if you are getting better swoops out of a neos, does not make a neos better than a VX, it means you are not getting as much as you should out of your VX.

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As far as the 11 cell, it actually has 3 lines per riser. Quad cascading. And just cause jyro took the stabilizer off, doesn't mean a canopy can't benefiet from having them, it just helps if they're not just pieces of flapping drag.

Stabalisers do not stabalise your canopy, neither do they give lift, the amount of vortex they reduce is at least equaled by the amount of drag they produce on a high aspect ratio canopy..

Jyro and Co. had inflatable stabalisers on the Daedalus project before they worked out it only created drag that was not necessary, they tried no stabalisers with better results and then you have the JVX.

I hope this 11 cell does work out well, because then we might see the JSX in action.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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Jyro and Co. had inflatable stabalisers on the Daedalus project before...

I meant to say ram air stabalisers.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[johnny1488 1]

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sheesh, a VX is a much higher performance canopy than a neos,

Why? If the neos can be loaded just as much, has better response from inputs, dives longer and builds more speed, is that lower performance? What makes it higher performance, more cross bracing?

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[rhys 0]

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Why? If the neos can be loaded just as much, has better response from inputs, dives longer and builds more speed, is that lower performance?

If you say so, you're the one that jumps them.

Do you know of any competative swooper that has moved from a VX to a Neos for an increase in performance?

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If the neos can be loaded just as much...
...What makes it higher performance, more cross bracing?

yes, more rigidity.

If crossbracing 3 of the cells gives more performance, how would crossbracing all cells not give even more performance?

Are you saying the maximum winloading on a neos is less than a VX of the same size?

There is still no information on the Neos on the Icarus canopies website.

I am not saying the neos is a bad canopy, I am refuting that it is better than a VX.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[johnny1488 1]

Icarus thinks the majority of the lift is made in the center of the canopy. Like the diminished returns you say are in stabilizrrs, they say with complete bracing. They can make a canopy that holds the same load, that is easier to make and packs smaller.

Just like everything, it is up to the pilot. I am much happier with my swoops on the neos because I like the dive on the neos. It gives me a lot more range than the vx. Competition drives innovation.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[rhys 0]

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Icarus thinks the majority of the lift is made in the center of the canopy. Like the diminished returns you say are in stabilizrrs, they say with complete bracing.

Stabalizers created drag, so removing them improves performance by reducing drag, crossbraces do not create more drag (or very minimal amounts if they do).

Not having the crossbraces does reduce packing volume, and does reduce the cost, but i cant see how it can be an improvement in performance over a fully crossbraced canopy?

I was under the impression the Neos was intended to be a canopy between the crossfire and the FX/VX?
there is no information on the canopy on the Icarus spain website?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[MrHips 0]

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A few friends have got themselves Neos canopies. One of them got a five great openings (crossfire like), then a Sabre like opening followed by a really hard opening giving him a really sore neck. Another friend broke some ribs during an opening of his Neos. A third person I know of have the occasional hard openings on his Neos as well.

Is Icarus having quality problems with the Neos or is it simply a bad design?

Hey mate I've had 3 Neos canopies and had the hard openings on two of them. Sent the first back and got a second that was great but wrong size then the 3rd started with the hard openings from the 4th jump. I got sick of trying to get Icarus Service to take the canopy back for testing again so I started trying to analyze the problem myself. PM me if you want the details of what I did to mine. Had the openings they advertise from the Neos since I made the change.

[MrHips 0]

Hi bofh. I received your PM but your dropzone.com account doesn't allow me to PM you. Turn that function on or send me your email address and I will send you the details.

[elduderino 0]

i did a lot (aprox 100 jumps) on several sizes ( 89-109) and i never had a hard opening,...many of the jumps where photo+video jumps....
some of the packjobs had been made by unexpirienced packer,....
every opening was soft and on heading,...
i heard before that some people had bad openings with the canopies that i jumped and ask them what they do during the inflation,....and the all said the same,.....so what i found out:

on the neos is one important thing to do during deployment.....do NOTHING!!!!

if you go for the risers this canopie will hit you like a horse...let the canopie do his job during opening, look to the horizont and simply wait,...and dont grab/pull the risers,..than everything will be fine,...

my expirience,...my 2 cents...

[aeronaut 1]

perhaps they have quality problems (AFAIK like in the past) regarding brake setting (on FX) or trim (on crossfire 1)
explanation of my 2 extreme hard openings with a Neos 109 , WL 1.8, at terminal, normal pro-pack,,, period of time from releasing the PC till complete inflation, almost instant / circa 1.5 sec.! I didn´t have the time to do anything wrong during deployment and during all 5 deployments I did nothing but waiting and watching.

[bofh 0]

My friend with the 99 has returned it too now after two weeks of having a sore neck after a brutal opening. The reseller just lets the customers pick another Icarus canopy now instead after too many complaints.