building a rig for heli bandit jumps

[jeffyg 0]

looking for a little imput or suggestions.

looking to build a rig and am kicking around a few ideas.. i have a perigree pro with ACE 310 however i am trying to keep this rig more or less legal for aircraft jumps for my friends sake

will be used mainly for bandit heli drops with confined landing areas.

198lbs without gear.

i have a coupon for a V3 container so i will order one up new.

freepacking, probably be running a 9' bridal, mesh slider.. 32" vented PC

as far as canopy options i am not too sure what to run, 7cell? something around 240ish? i want a container as small as possible while still being able to pack in a 'forgiving' canopy.

i guess ill toss this out for now, appreciate any imput
thanks

Speed is your Helmet

[billvon 2,396]

> want a container as small as possible . . .

Why the heck would you want a container that's "as small as possible?" You're looking at an accuracy or a BASE canopy for landing areas like that, and you'd be foolish to try to go to a smaller canopy than you use for BASE, since you're (presumably) familiar with landing that size canopy.

So for an ACE310 you're probably looking at a Vector SE (the student version.) Obviously a Skyhook would be a good idea.

[jeffyg 0]

thanks for the imput... possibly i miss represented possibly you miss read.

i don't mean a container to fit an icarus 67sq main, i was trying to mean i don't want a container the size of the old DZ student special for the 260's...

i do not want to pack my 310

by confined areas i do not mean having to land on that 10' bolder but not having an airport either. was thinking something around an unvented 7cell which could be packed quite a bit smaller than an equivilent dbagged 9cell?

i realize i should have provided more information, info is always a good thing unless its too much info of course.

no cypress
no rsl

and no i won't be pulling retarded low

thanks!
jeff

Speed is your Helmet

[billvon 2,396]

OK.

If you are planning on exiting at normal altitudes, and you're not using a BASE main, then I'd ditch the mesh slider/bigger PC/freepack and go with something more compatible with a typical skydiving canopy. The 100 feet of altitude you gain isn't worth the increased risk of problems caused by the increase in drag/snatch force/opening speed at terminal (IMO.)

For accuracy purposes, bigger is generally better. There are plenty of accuracy canopies out there on the market; Challengers and Parafoils come to mind. They're typically pretty big so you're still looking at a pretty large container. They are _usually_ 7 cell but not always (like the Challengers.)

You can go the "cheap route" and get something like a Raven IV but they're sort of the worst of both worlds. They work OK. I used to use an older F111 Manta (288 sq ft 9 cell) as a demo canopy and it worked reasonably well. For tight areas, the increase in options/time to react afforded by a big main far outweighs the annoyance of a bigger rig (again, IMO.)

[davelepka 4]

Your posts don't make any sense. You've made a lot of contradicting statements about size vs. performance vs. pack volume vs. rig size.


You need to be more clear about your mission if you want input on what gear to use.

Are you looking for a TSOd rig? For legal purposes?

Are you also going to following whatever regs may apply to aircraft operations and pilot qualifications?

What about the area you're jumping in? Do you have permission to land there, and have you notified any relevant authorities?

Now to the jumps, what sort of exit and opening altitudes are you planning?

How big is your landing area? What is the terrain like?

What sort of experience do you have? What canopies have you jumped at what WL?

[riggerrob 558]

Discussing bandit jumps - on open forums - is considered bad form,because it is too easy for third parties to read your plans.

[jeffyg 0]

thanks for the replies,

i realize i didn't provide tonns of information and maybe not enough for people to really provide me with answers, i did withhold posting ALL details on purpose yes.

i have a unique opertunity to hop heli's for free and land either on my property or in other areas that are suitable but smaller than the dz

i would like this rig to be legal however i don't mind a little gray area.

will be pulling low but not filthy low

perhaps this discussion should end here and if someone would be willing to continue it via PM it would be more appropriate.

i am not talking about doing anything illeagal

i am not trying to re-invent the wheel just thinking outside the box a little bit.

no dz around me

thanks for your thoughts guys please feel free to pm me about this subject it would be much appreciated

thanks again
jef

Speed is your Helmet

[davelepka 4]

Quote

i would like this rig to be legal however i don't mind a little gray area


will be pulling low but not filthy low


i am not talking about doing anything illeagal

See how all of these statements don't really fit together?

We both know that if you weren't doing anything worng, you'd have no problem posting every detail. Seeing as you're not posting the details, I'd say that you should be sure of what exactly is, and is not legal before you proceed.

Furthermore, you're talking about freepacking, and other somewhat 'non-standard' rigging, and possible pulling low-ish. My thought would be that if you feel the need to ask on the internet for gear advice, maybe you shouldn't be involved in such 'grey areas'.

Let's keep in mind that on a DZ there's a measure of control over what you're doing. The DZO, staff, and other fun jumpers will ususally speak up before you do anything too stupid. Doing off DZ jumps takes away 100% of that support.

Let's keep in mind that you don't need to make a huge mistake to go in. Forgetting to put on your legstraps is a big mistake, and isn't going to end well. But even something like forgetting or mis-routing a chest strap can be the first link in an accident chain. Not cocking a PC, or mis-routing a bridle are other simple mistakes. On a DZ a pin check or gear check will pick these things up.

Off DZ, a hanger full of helicopter pilots isn't going to be able to hepl you.

[NovaTTT 1]

It sounds like this guy has the opportunity to make helicopter jumps but in order to do so he has to exit low - so he's looking for a quick opening rig. Perhaps no reserve necessary.

It definately sounds like this guy is out of his depth of experience, knowledge and skill-set.

Finally, it sounds like urgent thrill is superceding intelligent consideration.

None of this gives one confidence the outcome will be good.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[jeffyg 0]

dave,

i appreciate you imput, care, and interest in the sport and rules. looking back at what i wrote i don't think it is out of line and i feel that i have provided a fair amount of information for the question being asked.

i would be more than happy to provide you with more info anything one would need to weigh to assist in an educated discussion just not over the public internet which i usually try to reserve for porn.

we can't all be gear ninjas, i have jumped 4 different canopies in my career but when it comes to gear selection, pack volumes and such there is so much out there that we can't all have a good handle on it....

lets not try to speculate too much

getting on the aircraft with a legal rig is what i am concerned about, once i leave the skid my friends driving are out of the equation

when i work, fly, recreate whatever i am 100% accountable for my actions and accept the risks associated with such

please don't bring DZ ethics into this thread as that is not part of my question at hand.

maybe i just have a little fetish for brisker openings? and smaller pack volumes

thanks again for your concern and imput genuinely appreciated and would really like to take it to PM just don't feel like being persueing this duscussion through the forum that wasn't my intention at the start. i you do not wish to continue this i totally understand that too.
thanks again
jef

Speed is your Helmet

[piisfish 135]

get a BASER

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

Jeffy is a helo pilot....

Quote

2+pilot in cali in a hiller to 13k

no freakin way

jef
heli pilot

ps you start letting people out while you have forward airspeed and you are asking for big trouble... whats your OGE hover for max weight

edited to add, feel free to contact me for more info on this subject from the industry side of things

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3503759;#3503759

[davelepka 4]

I don't think you're getting my point. This doesn't sound like a good situaiton, and I'm not about to contribute to it.

For example, this -

Quote

getting on the aircraft with a legal rig is what i am concerned about, once i leave the skid my friends driving are out of the equation

- is part of the problem. In the US, this is not the case. The pilot will be held responsible if there is an incident and you have jumped in an area where you're not supposed to, jumped from too low of an altitude, or pulled at too low of an altitude. In any case, anything that is 'less than legal' will reflect on the pilots if things should go wrong.

This is why I suggested you get the hard facts on what is, or is not, legal in your area.

Additionally -

Quote

i have jumped 4 different canopies in my career but when it comes to gear selection, pack volumes and such there is so much out there that we can't all have a good handle on it....

It's not that you don't have every model and pack volume memorized. It's that you've made several contradictory statements that lead me to believe that you lack the fundamental gear knowledge to be jumping on your own.

Adding to this is that fact that you want to use the gear outside of it's intended purpose. Freepacking into a rig designed for a D-bag for example. I'd leave the intentional mis-use of a rig to those with a more in depth knowledge of the gear and it's design.

Of course I reccomend not doing what you've got in mind. If you choose otherwise, good luck, and be safe.

[billvon 2,396]

A few comments:

(I know you said "take it to PM's" but in a forum environment more people can read it)

>i have a unique opertunity to hop heli's for free and land either on my property
>or in other areas that are suitable but smaller than the dz . . .

That's not a bandit jump, then. Just an off-DZ jump. Call ATC an hour before the jump to get the notice up, have the pilot call a few minutes before you exit and after you jump - and it's 100% legal. No risks for the pilot.

>i would like this rig to be legal however i don't mind a little gray area.

Then make it legal. It's easy to do so. Just get a TSOed rig and have a rigger pack it. Again, then the pilot is covered.

BTW if you plan to do this I strongly recommend you get some experience with demos, including tight landing areas (REAL tight landing areas, not "land inside the cones") throwing WDI's, estimating winds, estimating downstream turbulence and using ground crews. There's a lot to tight area demos.

[jdatc 0]

Quote

looking to build a rig and am kicking around a few ideas..

Ok.

First of all, is price a concern? IF not-

Get a skyhooked equipped rig, and get either a trango or a flik lite, or even better a flik ultra lite. I have a flik lite 182 with spectra line set that I freepack into my mirage depending on my pull altitude, with a small mesh slider. When I am jumping at someone's DZ, I have a sail slider and a dbag to make the openings nicer.

Also, a 9' single pin bridle with a proper base pc (32" is what I use, but I wingsuit the set-up)

If you size the container correctly, it will pack just like your base rig, only with one extra fold.

Boom, legal rig with a fast opening canopy, all TSO's and a reserve.

Be advised that smaller base canopies, loaded above 1 to 1 without vents are not as friendly as their less loaded larger brothers. Also, any malfunction on one low, will be worse then having a mal on your typically sized base canopy.

Also, opening force can be brutal in a free-packed configuration, especially if you have a spectra line-set.

Dacron is better, but if pack volume is a major concern, go spectra and experiment with different packing techniques to tame the openings.....

Here is what my flik 182 opens like in the free-pack config, dumping full flight in my V2, with my pack job for such.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvmlS0sDpFo&feature=channel_page


_justin

[jeffyg 0]

thanks for the beta guys definitely appreciated

Speed is your Helmet

[jeffyg 0]

ps that was brisk

Speed is your Helmet