ailithir 0 #1 March 12, 2009 I was wondering how often a rigger checks out rental parachutes...is there a reg, or just every so often, or whenever, or never? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #2 March 12, 2009 When you rent you should verify that the reserve has been inspected and repacked in the last 180 days (if in USA). That inspection and repack should include all of the harness, the reserve container, and the reserve canopy/lines. You verify this by examining the packing data card, which should be in a pocket on the rig somewhere. Inspection of the main at the same time is prudent, but not required by any US regulation that I am aware of. There is a US reg that the main must have been packed within the 180 days preceeding a jump.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilchief 0 #3 March 12, 2009 just throwing in how it's done in Norway. All student and rental gear must have a full inspection and repack every 6 months. And 3 months after last full inspection and repack it needs to have the harness and main canopy inspected. Does USPA only require a repack according to the reserve pack date without anything else?"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci www.lilchief.no Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nutz 0 #4 March 12, 2009 USPA doesn't require anything. It is an FAA requirement. "Don't! Get! Eliminated!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #5 March 12, 2009 As previously stated, in the US the reserve is inspected and repacked every 180 days. Additionally, a good packer will keep an eye on the rental gear as they pack, and if the rig is used for students, the instructors will be inspecting the pakced rig before each jump during the gear check. If you are a renter, you also should be inspecting the rig before, during and after use. Often times problems with rigs start off as small, harmless issues. The rig may be functional, but if things don't work the way you expect, or with the ease or performance you expect, this should be immediately reported. If you rent on a per jump basis, and return the rig to a packer after every jump, tell the packer about the issue when you return the rig. Follow up on this by also reporting the issue to the staff rigger (if possible) or to manifest. Make sure to include the rig number (if it has one) to ensure that the correct rig is inspected. If you are renting by the day, and have a problem, report it before repacking the rig and jumping again. If the staff rigger is available start there, but otherwise inquire at manifest as to who can help you with an inspection before you use the rig again. This is actually a great question. Renters may not realize that gear inspection is something that should be done before, during and after every jump. Often times rental rigs fall through the cracks in this respect. If I had a toggle that hung up momentarily when I tried to unstow my brakes, I would look into it before packing for the next jump. A rental rig with the same problem may just be dropped in the pile in the packing room, with the existing problem to simply be packed up for the next unsuspecting jumper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ailithir 0 #6 March 12, 2009 Considerate, good answers...thanks. While an external inspection of the webbing, cables, etc. should be/is performed when picking up the rental rig, anything having to do with the canopy, lines, etc. that only the packer (who really may not be paying attention) that has gone amiss (line over, burning a hole, fraying lines, pilot chute problems) will not be seen by a rigger for 180 days...this is a little troubling. If the jumper is packing himself he must know what to look for and that (I think) would be fairly difficult. Do you think that (generally speaking) a packer will do this kind of over-all inspection each time the parachute is packed?Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GLIDEANGLE 1 #7 March 12, 2009 Re-read my reply. I think you may be confusing the rules regarding the main and the reserve. It is prudent for the rigger to inspect the main at repack time (180 days), but it is NOT required. The main only needs to be repacked (could be by YOU, a rigger, or a rigger supervised packer). It would be legal for NO ONE to ever formally inspect the main. Do packers inspect as they repack? .... The good ones do a quick inspection as they pack. The weak packers may not look at much. However, even a diligent packer doing a quick inspection while packing could miss problems that would be picked up by a complete inspection. A key issue regarding packers is that they are usually paid per pack job.... so they are packing as fast as they can. Everything that slows them down costs them $$$$. They are being paid to PACK... not to rig.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #8 March 12, 2009 QuoteDo you think that (generally speaking) a packer will do this kind of over-all inspection each time the parachute is packed? It's not a formal inspection with every pack job, but during the course of the pack job, you do handle just about every part of the rig. For a pack job to proceed as normal, things generally need to be straight and in good shape. As far as line burns or holes, a canopy will recieve a complete inspection after a cutaway. Durign general use, however, this tyoe of inspection will be done. This is the reason that you, as the renter, also need to be inspecting the rig. After you open, see that the lines are straight, the brakes unstow smoothly, the canopy fabic is sound, with no holes or open seams. Again, if anything appears to be 'off' or not working in a way you expect, bring this up to the appropriate person at the DZ. Of course, the condition of the rental gear is often times a good indicator of the condition of the DZ in general. If a DZ has good packers, who are educated about the gear, and encouraged to keep an eye on things, and report any problems, that's a good sign. If they have an on-site rigger who oversees the maintenence of the gear, this is also a good sign. At a good DZ, the rental gear is sometimes safer than that of some of the experienced jumpers. It's looked over by the packers several times per week, and some DZs a have rigger do more complete inspections on a regular basis. At the same time, an experienced jumper who packs his own gear will onyl have it inspected every 180 days, with nobody but himself to lok after it in between. If this jumper is not properly informed, or does not give it due consideration, then the rig might be jumped for months in a state of dis-repair. The lesson here is A) don't borrow anyones gear, because you have no idea what sort of crap they're jumping, and B) get your own gear ASAP, and take time to learn about the rig, and it's proper care and maintenence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ailithir 0 #9 March 12, 2009 excellent answer(s)...thanks My son is closing in on his A-license and there's no money right now to buy him his own gear. I consider his DZ to be professionally run (Sky's The Limit...Stroudsberg Pa) but have no way to judge the competency of the packers who, as is pointed out, are in it for a quick $7.00. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #10 March 12, 2009 QuoteMy son is closing in on his A-license and there's no money right now to buy him his own gear. I consider his DZ to be professionally run (Sky's The Limit...Stroudsberg Pa) but have no way to judge the competency of the packers who, as is pointed out, are in it for a quick $7.00. It's odd that you seem to trust the way the DZ is run, but not the way they staff their packing room. One solution is to sit in the packing room for an hour, and watch the packers work. Figure out who you think does the best work, and make sure that he or she is the one who packs the rig your son will be jumping. If he's jumping a rig off the rack, have it unpacked and re-packed by your selected packer. If it's mid-day, and the rig is in service, when it comes in to be packed for your sons next jump, again, go find your guy and make sure he gets the pack job. Like you said, the packers are there for the money. Offer the guy an extra $3 per to take extra good care of your kid. Another thought is to pack the rig yourself. In a case where the rig is in service, when it comes in from the last jump, pack it yourself, and have your son drop it of to the packers unpacked when he is finished. It's extra money or extra work to not trust the packers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NovaTTT 1 #11 March 13, 2009 Buy your son a copy of the SIM (Skydiver's Information Manual) and direct him to Sections 5-3 and 5-4. The manual and this information specifically will be useful to him throughout his skydiving life."Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #12 March 13, 2009 Quoteexcellent answer(s)...thanks My son is closing in on his A-license and there's no money right now to buy him his own gear. I consider his DZ to be professionally run (Sky's The Limit...Stroudsberg Pa) but have no way to judge the competency of the packers who, as is pointed out, are in it for a quick $7.00. He cannot get an "A" license without learning to pack, which should include how to properly inspect the gear. He should be the one responsible for inspecting his gear with the main open and “closed” whether he packs it or someone else does. If he has any questions he should ask someone. It’s how we all learn. Don’t put off responsibility to a packer for what he should be able to do himself. The only thing he cannot properly inspect is the inner workings of the reserve, but that has an FAA certified riggers seal on it. A good solution would be for him to do his first 100 pack jobs himself."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ailithir 0 #13 March 13, 2009 I am impressed with the answers...thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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GLIDEANGLE 1 #7 March 12, 2009 Re-read my reply. I think you may be confusing the rules regarding the main and the reserve. It is prudent for the rigger to inspect the main at repack time (180 days), but it is NOT required. The main only needs to be repacked (could be by YOU, a rigger, or a rigger supervised packer). It would be legal for NO ONE to ever formally inspect the main. Do packers inspect as they repack? .... The good ones do a quick inspection as they pack. The weak packers may not look at much. However, even a diligent packer doing a quick inspection while packing could miss problems that would be picked up by a complete inspection. A key issue regarding packers is that they are usually paid per pack job.... so they are packing as fast as they can. Everything that slows them down costs them $$$$. They are being paid to PACK... not to rig.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #8 March 12, 2009 QuoteDo you think that (generally speaking) a packer will do this kind of over-all inspection each time the parachute is packed? It's not a formal inspection with every pack job, but during the course of the pack job, you do handle just about every part of the rig. For a pack job to proceed as normal, things generally need to be straight and in good shape. As far as line burns or holes, a canopy will recieve a complete inspection after a cutaway. Durign general use, however, this tyoe of inspection will be done. This is the reason that you, as the renter, also need to be inspecting the rig. After you open, see that the lines are straight, the brakes unstow smoothly, the canopy fabic is sound, with no holes or open seams. Again, if anything appears to be 'off' or not working in a way you expect, bring this up to the appropriate person at the DZ. Of course, the condition of the rental gear is often times a good indicator of the condition of the DZ in general. If a DZ has good packers, who are educated about the gear, and encouraged to keep an eye on things, and report any problems, that's a good sign. If they have an on-site rigger who oversees the maintenence of the gear, this is also a good sign. At a good DZ, the rental gear is sometimes safer than that of some of the experienced jumpers. It's looked over by the packers several times per week, and some DZs a have rigger do more complete inspections on a regular basis. At the same time, an experienced jumper who packs his own gear will onyl have it inspected every 180 days, with nobody but himself to lok after it in between. If this jumper is not properly informed, or does not give it due consideration, then the rig might be jumped for months in a state of dis-repair. The lesson here is A) don't borrow anyones gear, because you have no idea what sort of crap they're jumping, and B) get your own gear ASAP, and take time to learn about the rig, and it's proper care and maintenence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ailithir 0 #9 March 12, 2009 excellent answer(s)...thanks My son is closing in on his A-license and there's no money right now to buy him his own gear. I consider his DZ to be professionally run (Sky's The Limit...Stroudsberg Pa) but have no way to judge the competency of the packers who, as is pointed out, are in it for a quick $7.00. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #10 March 12, 2009 QuoteMy son is closing in on his A-license and there's no money right now to buy him his own gear. I consider his DZ to be professionally run (Sky's The Limit...Stroudsberg Pa) but have no way to judge the competency of the packers who, as is pointed out, are in it for a quick $7.00. It's odd that you seem to trust the way the DZ is run, but not the way they staff their packing room. One solution is to sit in the packing room for an hour, and watch the packers work. Figure out who you think does the best work, and make sure that he or she is the one who packs the rig your son will be jumping. If he's jumping a rig off the rack, have it unpacked and re-packed by your selected packer. If it's mid-day, and the rig is in service, when it comes in to be packed for your sons next jump, again, go find your guy and make sure he gets the pack job. Like you said, the packers are there for the money. Offer the guy an extra $3 per to take extra good care of your kid. Another thought is to pack the rig yourself. In a case where the rig is in service, when it comes in from the last jump, pack it yourself, and have your son drop it of to the packers unpacked when he is finished. It's extra money or extra work to not trust the packers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 1 #11 March 13, 2009 Buy your son a copy of the SIM (Skydiver's Information Manual) and direct him to Sections 5-3 and 5-4. The manual and this information specifically will be useful to him throughout his skydiving life."Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #12 March 13, 2009 Quoteexcellent answer(s)...thanks My son is closing in on his A-license and there's no money right now to buy him his own gear. I consider his DZ to be professionally run (Sky's The Limit...Stroudsberg Pa) but have no way to judge the competency of the packers who, as is pointed out, are in it for a quick $7.00. He cannot get an "A" license without learning to pack, which should include how to properly inspect the gear. He should be the one responsible for inspecting his gear with the main open and “closed” whether he packs it or someone else does. If he has any questions he should ask someone. It’s how we all learn. Don’t put off responsibility to a packer for what he should be able to do himself. The only thing he cannot properly inspect is the inner workings of the reserve, but that has an FAA certified riggers seal on it. A good solution would be for him to do his first 100 pack jobs himself."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ailithir 0 #13 March 13, 2009 I am impressed with the answers...thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
