Working out / heart rate question

[WhirledWeb 0]

I've got kind of a dumb question. I like using an elliptical machine when I work out, and I just started going to a new gym with new equipment. The elliptical cycle has the pulse monitoring stuff that changes the resistance to maintain a target heart rate.

There are 2 main modes on the machine "cardio" and "fat loss". In fat loss mode, it sets the target heart rate at 65% of the maximum recommended rate, and the cardio sets it to 80% of maximum.

My personal goal is fat loss

I'm curious about the 65% / 80% situation... is the 65% based on the most efficient burning of fat? Would my body burn fat less efficiently if I set the heart rate to higher? Does it work like that?

I understand that if I burn more calories, calories are stored in fat and (if all else is working normally), I'd burn more fat if I burn more calories.... so it makes sense to me that if I set the heart rate to higher (in effect higher resistance of the machine = more energy burnt) I'd burn more fat.

(I'm thinking that I might be missing some element like "if you set the rate to higher, your body shifts its burning mechanism around to such and such and you don't burn fat as fast" or some mumbo jumbo that you muscle heads would be able to explain much better than me)

Thanks for reading my rambling!
-Mark

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Don't be afraid of death,
be afraid of the unlived life.

[Crater 0]

I'm not a muscle head but I was told that fat is not 'instant' energy. Your body needs to convert it to sugars so that your muscles can burn it.

If you work hard then trying to convert fat just isn't fast enough to keep up with the demand your muscles are making. Instead they use up their stores of glycogen first and then whatever sugars happen to be floating around you at the time. After which you start to feel light-headed and weak (if you're not used to cardio).

Working slower doesn't put as much strain on everything so some of the fat can get burned (along with some of the sugars)

At least that's what I think... hope it helped

_________________________________________

"That's not flying ... That's falling with style!" - (Woody, Toy Story)

[CSpenceFLY 1]

You are only given so many heart beats in a life time.When you work out you are using them up at a faster rate than normal.Stop.Your going to die sooner.

[tweak 0]

When you start doing any type of aerobic exercise, your body starts off burning sugar stored in your muscles for energy. After you keep this up for 8-10 minutes, your body realizes if your going to keep up this level of activity, your glycogen stores (sugar stored in the muscle cells) will soon start to get depleted. Your body then switches over to the best energy source for extended periods of activity (fat). This is called the Krebs cycle. Basically your body uses fat and oxygen to create a chemical reaction to generate energy. This is what is meant by an aerobic exercise, when your body uses fat and oxygen to create energy. So if your goal is to burn body fat, you want your body to remain in this cycle to burn fat for energy. If you pick up the pace to much, your body cannot get enough oxygen to the muscles to maintain this cycle. It then reverts back to burning sugar for energy. A good rule of thumb to keep in mind to make sure you stay in this cycle, is to make sure you can carry on a conversation with someone working out next to you. If your huffing and puffing to keep up the pace, more than likely your back to burning sugar again and need to slow down until you're breathing more regularly.

Hope this helps.

Trey

[DrewGPM 0]

great explanation!

As a side note, you should really do both types. One burns fat, which good for a fat bastard like me. The other improves heart and lung functions...and just about every other system in the body.

I do 20-40 minutes of anaerobic (slow heart rate) stuff every day. On the days that do 20 minutes, I follow that up with 40 minutes of aerobic(high heart rate) work.

I'm down 10% on the body fat scale...and working to see another 10. I try not to worry about body weight. I lift weights, so my body weight doesn't change...but it sure looks nicer! And it's much healthier.

[tweak 0]

Absoulutely agree here! I've seen many people that spend all of their time in the weight room and never do cardio work. I think a lot of people don't realize what all health benefits you get from regular cardio workout.

[kelpdiver 2]

at 65% of your MHR, you might get 50% of your energy needs from burning fat. at 90%, it may drop to 20% or less.

That said, if you maintain either rate for the same period of time, you may be burning nearly as much fat at 90% anyway, plus a lot more glycogen to boot. And the heart likes to work itself. If your workouts are time limited, I'd prefer a harder workout.

But 10 minutes at 90% is inferior to 30 at 65%. I think that is the main basis for the recommendations to slow people down - they can last longer in the beginning.

BTW, my biggest beef with the precor machines is that it doesn't really work the body that hard. You get a huge number of steps at the end of the workout on the display, but it's so much lower intensity than say the PT4000.

[WhirledWeb 0]

Wow, y'all kick ass - thank you so much for the great explainations!!

I'm not time limited in my workout, and what my routine has been so far is just to stay at the 65% rate for an hour. Then I spend some time in the jacuzzi and sauna cause it feels good. I'm going to start introducing some lifting into my routine in a few weeks.

The gym I'm going to has new "life fitness" equipment, which I like (don't have much to compare it to though)

Thanks again to each of you for the info - extremely helpful.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Don't be afraid of death,
be afraid of the unlived life.

[kallend 1,623]

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at 65% of your MHR, you might get 50% of your energy needs from burning fat. at 90%, it may drop to 20% or less.

That said, if you maintain either rate for the same period of time, you may be burning nearly as much fat at 90% anyway, plus a lot more glycogen to boot. And the heart likes to work itself. If your workouts are time limited, I'd prefer a harder workout.

But 10 minutes at 90% is inferior to 30 at 65%. I think that is the main basis for the recommendations to slow people down - they can last longer in the beginning.

BTW, my biggest beef with the precor machines is that it doesn't really work the body that hard. You get a huge number of steps at the end of the workout on the display, but it's so much lower intensity than say the PT4000.

What are the "maximum" rates anyway? Maximum in what sense? (Being an old fart, my "maximum" is ridiculously low, and I simply ignore it).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SLIDER 0]

Some of the information is right on - but you have got your aerobic and anaerobic backwards. Here are some simplified breakdowns for training, I hope this is helpfull:

Zone 1 - Active recovery

Short easy runs
Even at this pace you are still improving your overall fitness. There is no sensation of being out of breath and conversation is easy.

Zone 2 - Extensive Aerobic Endurance

Long easy runs
This zone is were build endurance. This should feel very comfortable and conversation is still easy.

Zone 3 Intensive Aerobic Endurance

Medium distance runs or workouts
Running and/or working out is still comfortalbe and conversation is not to difficult yet
This higher aerobic endurance intensity brings many of the same benefits as zone 2,but more rapdly depletes carbohydrates while placing moderate stress on the mechanisms of lactate threshold. This will require increased recovery time.

Zone 4 and 5a - lactate threshold

Medium to short workout and/or runs
The effort is uncomfortable and breathing starts to make coversation difficult. Floods muscles with lactate increasing our tolerance and performances near this level

Zone5b Aerobic Capacity

Hard efforts-short to medium in duration
Use this zone for doing interval workouts
Breathing is very heavy and talking is difficult
The purpose for this training zone is to increase your muscle tolerance to lactic acid and it increases the enzyme in your muscles that are responsible for anaerobic meatabolism. this also gets you used to feeling higher efforts(racing) and or hills.

Zone5c Anerobic Capacity

Short hard efforts
use ths for interval training
Breathing is very hard and talking is very difficult if not impossible
This zone is to improve power and strength. it increases you muscle tolerence to very large amounts of lactic acid.

All that being said - If you stay below you anerobic thresholds for most of your training, and stay within your aerobic endurance zones - you will improve your overall fitness(along with good diet) and your heart will continue to get stronger and recover quicker......

If your serious about your fitness, go get a lactate theshold test, It will give you your proper heart rates for those training zone - it will be money well spent - usually under $75 at a good sports fitness facility.


Scott
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"there's a fine line between hobby and mental illness"

[kallend 1,623]

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Some of the information is right on - but you have got your aerobic and anaerobic backwards. Here are some simplified breakdowns for training, I hope this is helpfull:

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I think you mistake me for someone else. I just asked about "maximum" heartrate.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SLIDER 0]

This is a site with a heart rate calculator

http://www.stevenscreek.com/goodies/hr.shtml

As always check with your doc when it comes to what YOU can do. These are just guidelines everyones fitness level is different


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"there's a fine line between hobby and mental illness"

[Zenister 0]

Quote

Quote

Some of the information is right on - but you have got your aerobic and anaerobic backwards. Here are some simplified breakdowns for training, I hope this is helpfull:

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I think you mistake me for someone else. I just asked about "maximum" heartrate.

or perhaps he just hit the 'post reply' button to the last post in the thread and provided information relating to the topic?? hmm

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[kallend 1,623]

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This is a site with a heart rate calculator

http://www.stevenscreek.com/goodies/hr.shtml

As always check with your doc when it comes to what YOU can do. These are just guidelines everyones fitness level is different


______________________________

I know how to calculate it, I'm trying to find out what it means.

Maximum implies a limit of some sort. Who decided what my limiting heart rate should be, and how did they make that decision for me? Based on what information? Is there some science behind these heart rate calculators, and if so, what is it?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Spatula 0]

Precor machines are not truly "elliptical" machines. Look at the motion as compare to a life fitness "elliptical". They don't follow the "arc" which would be "elliptical".

That was explained to me directly from a Precor rep. Its what sets them apart in the elliptical world.

[DrewGPM 0]

The maximum heart rate, from what I understand, is the fastest your heart to go. Any faster than that and you risk breaking the darn thing.

I saw a show in FitTV where they tested a guy for his max heart rate. They treated it like freefall speed. How fast can you go? There is only one way to find out...go do it! They put the guy on an elliptical and told him go as fast as possible. Eventually the heart rate hits a peak, similar to terminal velocity. Terminal is a bad word to use when discussing heart rates. Terminal heart rate is 0...regardless of age or weight. they did some tests before hand, just make sure wasn't gonna have a heart attack...so i don't suggest doing this without medical supervision.

His actual max heart rate was like 205. According to the calulation for a fit person his max should have been 185. That guy was a pretty hard core...so i expect him to be above average. Based on that, I'll accept the formulae on that web page to be good enough.

I don't like the other calculations available on that site. According to the body equations I am 15.8% or 52% body fat, depending on which method you believe. According to my fat scale at home and the one at the gym, I'm actually about 27%.

[kelpdiver 2]

The 220-age has always been a rough calculator, with many questioning the assumption that it slows down every year, particularly for active people.

Real world tests that don't require a well equipped gym just require that you go out, do a decent training clip to warm up (bike or running), and then do a couple minutes of full out intensity. Your max there is as good a measure of MHR as you got.

My max a couple years ago did seem close to the predicted value, but I can sustain a higher percentage of it than I would have expected. 2 hours at 92%.

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

The 220-age has always been a rough calculator, with many questioning the assumption that it slows down every year, particularly for active people.

Real world tests that don't require a well equipped gym just require that you go out, do a decent training clip to warm up (bike or running), and then do a couple minutes of full out intensity. Your max there is as good a measure of MHR as you got.

My max a couple years ago did seem close to the predicted value, but I can sustain a higher percentage of it than I would have expected. 2 hours at 92%.

OK, I can get to 160 and stay there until I get bored, and to 170 for 2 or three minute bursts. According to the tables for my age, my heart should have exploded at 160.

Ran 2 miles in 17 minutes today. Not Olympic material, but I'm nearly 60. HR was 155 at the end of the run.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.