photographers overcharging

[jdhill 0]

What a bad salesman...

$30 for an 11x14 is not an unreasonable amount, even if it is an opportunity shot... I regularly charge $35 for that size (yes, FOR ONE PHOTO!)... it boils down to poor marketing... he should have just said if you want the picture its $30, and not get into a discussion of what goes in to setting his price point...

You have the option of buying it, at the photographer's price, or not... the "let's make a deal" game gets old.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[AndyMan 7]

Why does it matter if he's charging $30 / print, or $10/print + a $20 jump ticket? It's still $30.

That's why I said I agree it may not be smart, because ultimately he's not marketing himself very well. If he'd asked for the same mount of money, but just worded it different this issue wouldn't have come up.

$30 / print is a perfectly reasonable amount to charge for an 8 X 10.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

I'd be pissed if i managed to pull off a HD rodeo with a camera guy then found out his camera wasn't on....

Your aura made my camera temporarily out of order. It's ALL your fault.

[LawnDart21 0]

I asked Lewmonst to come jump on a raft dive we made at Rantoul 2003, and she got one of those "One is a million" shots of us exiting the Casa, I forget what I paid for the pic, but it was priceless, worth every penny.

Lew- I know you'll remember it, we had the American Flag Uncle Sam hat on one of the jumpers in the back of the raft. The pic is sitting on my desk at work as we speak.

Blue skies, Tom

Blue skies, Tom

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[Squeak 17]

Quote

$30 / print is a perfectly reasonable amount to charge for an 8 X 10.

_Am

I don't think it is, especially an inkjet print.
I have been doing photography for over 20 years and I can develop my own prints, (even Cibahrome/Ilfachrome) and $30US is very expensive for an "on spec" one off print.
I certainly wouldn't pay it. Particularly for an ink jet (if it was)

But that's just me

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[turtlespeed 212]

It's skydiving - not sales

Wait -

No - it IS SALES -

That is ALSO why the barter system exists -

Have you ever HAggled before?

(Not directed to you squeak)

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[lewmonst 0]

Quote

Quote

$30 / print is a perfectly reasonable amount to charge for an 8 X 10.

_Am

I don't think it is, especially an inkjet print.

No one should sell inkjet prints. period. I sell dye-sub prints.

But, I do think $30 is reasonable for a skydiving photo... (probably 11x14) Not a ground shot, but an aerial photo. A lot more effort goes into getting a good skydiving photo.
I do sell ground or tunnel shots for $10 (dye-sub 8x10)

peace
lew

http://www.exitshot.com

[Squeak 17]

Quote

Quote

Quote

$30 / print is a perfectly reasonable amount to charge for an 8 X 10.

_Am

I don't think it is, especially an inkjet print.

No one should sell inkjet prints. period. I sell dye-sub prints.

But, I do think $30 is reasonable for a skydiving photo... (probably 11x14) Not a ground shot, but an aerial photo. A lot more effort goes into getting a good skydiving photo.
I do sell ground or tunnel shots for $10 (dye-sub 8x10)

peace
lew

Do you have a dye sub printer on the DZ???

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[riggerrob 558]

$30 is a reasonable price for an air-to-air photograph.

[jdhill 0]

Quote

I don't think it is, especially an inkjet print.

That's a very objective approach to a very subjective thing... its the photograph, not just the print... a better photograph with worth more money, and what it is worth is different to differnet people... for example, the photo in question isn't worth squat to most of us here, but at least one person was willing to pay $10, but not $30...

On another note... Most reasonably good consumer photo printers use dyes, not ink these days.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[Squeak 17]

Quote

$30 is a reasonable price for an air-to-air photograph.

for you maybe, but not for me and most certainly not on spec.
I'd rather do another jump and buy some lunch

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[dtpilot 0]

well jimmy thanks for the post

Your comments really hit the spot. Its sounds like the old way is the best and that is what i want to do for the sport. My goal in skydiving is to have fun and spend as much time with the people that share the same interests and enthusiasm as I do. In return I will be more than happy to share my experiences and tricks that Ive learned through my training and fun and crazy dives. To me skydiving isnt about making money but to make life more worth living. when I buy my own camera gear i am not buying it to make money. its for my own fun to watch and share the experience of jumping out of a perfectly good airplane. I know all the camera equipment is expensive but really if you think about it you are buying it for yourself. So you learn and have fun with the gear handing out your captured images to friends and skydivers alike until you get the art down. Then the fun starts. people ask for your services and you may be able to charge. I personally will take the money if offered but really I would only charge to enough to cover the charge of the supplies... cd, printer paper and ink... and that is very small. But to all is there own.

Well to answer jimmytavino....

I think the camera guy was really experienced. Gear looked well used and he was a good canopy flier but that really doesnt mean much. People learn at different paces. I would say he has been in for awhile.


THANKS AGAIN FOR YOU POSTS

Check out one of the tracking dives

http://www.freetafly.com/videos/skydive.mov

"Believe me! The secret of reaping the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment from life is to live dangerously!"
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

[dtpilot 0]

like the point...jumps and lunch are goooooood

"Believe me! The secret of reaping the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment from life is to live dangerously!"
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

[diablopilot 2]

Going rate for a 8x10 is about $30. Get over it. Sounds like you wanted the picture but didn't want to pay the price. Want a free firewire dub of his video too?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[dtpilot 0]

first ive hear that the going rate was 30... professional photographers dont get that much sometime and they went to school for it.

Oh and since when did skydiving turn into a pay for all program...?

"Believe me! The secret of reaping the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment from life is to live dangerously!"
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

[cameramonkey 0]

Quote

first ive hear that the going rate was 30... professional photographers dont get that much sometime and they went to school for it.

Just try to get a pro to sell you a single print, from an event that costs say, $20 get into (and they didnt get a press pass) for $10. not gonna happen (unless he is REALLY bad at math).

I agree with several. Its all about bad "marketing". It was uncool to ask for the slot after the fact... If he wanted his slot covered, he should have offered the print for " $30 flat". If he had done that, I doubt we would all be discussing it.


Besides, as a starving vidiot, my question is if he is so hard up that he needs the sale to cover his slot, why was he jumping on his dime, and why not doing it for hire? if he was already on somebody else's jump that was covering his slot, why is he trying to double dip?

Two wrongs don't make a right, however three lefts DO!

[Kris 0]

Quote

first ive hear that the going rate was 30... professional photographers dont get that much sometime and they went to school for it.

Depends on the photographer. Some magazines pay upwards of $2K-$5K a shot. Try getting one of those photog's to sell you a print for $30.

Sure, if I'm flying with buddies, we'll exchange video via firewire or JPG's from stills, but if it's a professional videographer, expect to pay for their quality and professionalism.

That said though, him trying to get you to pay for his slot when you didn't ask him on your dive is pretty lame.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[1cameraguy 0]

I've got to say I'm a bit taken back by dtpilots recent postings. There were a number of facts omitted and assumptions made that need to be put in focus. I'm that OVERCHARGING PHOTOGRAPHER, David Smithers, that dtpilot seems so BENT over. Let me deal with the facts first.
I showed dtpilot a 5x7 photo and told him the cost was $30 for an 8 1/2 x 11. He gave me $30 and I gave him the 5x7 and said BONUS, be back in 5 with your enlargement. Upon my return dtpilot was questioning the cost for the photo. I made the mistake in explaining the costs involved, such as ticket and the like. At that point he TOLD me he was only willing to pay $10. I gave him back his $30 and kept both copies for my portfolio. I was not going to play let's make a deal. He lost nothing? I lost nothing! Everyone should be happy. My sales pitch may need some work but I was nothing but professional.
Now back to the start. Upon review of the video I can tell you that at 2300 feet while heading to the holding area, dtpilot passed me on my RIGHT side and turned under and behind me. I turned to the right to keep dtpilot in sight and snapped off a few pics until dtpilot dove under at such an angle, his head was visible over the canopy. I was just making the best out of a situation while looking for my outs. After we landed I talked with him about his flying and some of the decisions he made. I was shocked to find out that he had only 20 off student status and was unfamiliar with his gear. I would never knowing engage in CREW below 2500 feet with a novice without a complete dirt dive and safety briefing.
So what is a picture worth and what should it cost? Those are questions that have no set answer. I have 1800+ camera jumps and have been out of dozens of aircraft over the last five years. If you were to hire me for a jump out of the B-17, the cost is slot ($350) plus my fee. Helicopter, balloon, you name the aircraft, what does it cost to get a warm body on that aircraft? If that's to much than don't get video and stills. In times like this when I get an air-to-air shot the cost is $30 for an 8 1/2 x 11. Had my load been covered the price would be $20 per print or CD. That's the COST.
What is a picture WORTH? You tell me! How many skydivers had a picture of yourself under canopy, with only 46 jumps that you would call AWESOME? I have almost 2000 jumps and have only 3 of myself I would call AWESOME. How does that picture make you feel and what memories does it bring back? Is there any worth in that? I know my pictures hang on the walls of hundreds of skydivers and that's worth more to me than money but it costs money to get you THE SHOT.
How much is it worth to have a camera flyer at your DZ that has spent more than $10,000 on video equipment ready to serve you on a 20 minute call? That's right, $1000 for video and lens, $2000 for digital still with wide angle lens, $1500 worth of mounts, light, switches attached to a flat top helmet. Oh you want 35mm, that's another $500. Sorry, almost forgot the $3500 computer and printers. Add on another $1500 for the small stuff like wires, DV tapes, flash cards, extra switches, batteries and of course the CD, printer paper and ink. All so you can have a picture in hand before your packed.
The term LUCKY was used to describe our proximity when in reality it was MY 5 YEARS of jumping almost every weekend that allowed me to hone my skills enough to both avoid you and make you look AWESOME. LUCK had nothing to do with it! Oh and if you check with Uncle Sam you will find out that Professional Photographer is my occupation.
As far as you getting you own equipment, don't rush into it, you will need another 450 skydives before you will be allowed to fly it. Then you will need the air skills to both get the shot and not hurt anyone, but you don't give a rats ass about any of this, do you?
I would like to finish off answering a question posed by dtpilot. Since when did skydiving turn into a pay for all program? Since I manifested for my very first load and I've paid ever since. When you show me a DZ that allows their camera flyers to jump for free, I will show you a professional camera flyer willing to jump at a much reduced price.

[tigra 0]

We often have a cameraman on RW loads, especially the larger ones. We typically "buck up" for the cameraman, and he'll sell dubs for a couple of bucks or prints. I think the going rate is $15.00 - $20.00 for an 8X10, but that's when either his slots been covered or everyone on the load paid a dollar already.

DTPilot- I think you owe this guy an apology for misrepresenting the situation. He asked for $30.00, which you were willing to pay, for not one but 2 prints of you under canopy. Sounds pretty reasonable to me! You didn't get bent out of shape until he explained his pricing at your request. Those are once in a lifetime shots and unfortunately, he only got them because YOU got too close under canopy. You're very lucky he's an experienced canopy pilot and neither one of you was hurt!

Me, personally, I have NO pictures under canopy or even any good landing shots.

[1cameraguy 0]

WHAT NO PICTURES---Head out to SKYDIVE DALLAS- You will have one OVERCHARGING PHOTOGRAPHER ready to make you smile. PEACE and BLUE SKY

[christoofar 0]

I think Judge Judy should sort it all out.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I showed dtpilot a 5x7 photo and told him the cost was $30 for an 8 1/2 x 11. .... I made the mistake in explaining the costs involved, such as ticket and the like. {Dickering was attempted, cameraguy disengaged from the situation.}

That's about all that needs saying. The rest likely highlights that the conversation in question likely got emotional on both sides.

Prior to this, I was of the impression that the picture was $30, period, that's the price. The cost basis is not the customer's business. Apparently that's exactly how you tried to present it at first. Good.

I guess when the customer asks later, if it were me, I'd just say that $30 is my going price and that's what the market is paying and they have a choice to not buy it and I'll have it for a while if they want to think about it. Cost basis in any industry is not the customer's business, just the final transaction cost.

Based on your story, the only issue is that the contract was made and you went off and had to eat the expense of producing the enlargement. Then the customer reneged on the deal. That's not cool.

That's the only part of either story that is out of line. Making an agreement and then backing off.

Always two sides to every story. (I suspect that there was some arguming in the mix somewhere in here that neither is elaborating on).

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[AndyMan 7]

Well said. I suspected from the start this thread stunk, and I'm glad you stepped up.

$30 is a perfectly reasonable amount to charge for an 8.5 * 11, and the whiners who think that's too expensive should just not buy it.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[narcimund 0]

How absolutely reasonable of you!

It sounds like your only error was falling prey to the impulse to explain. When the price was just "$30" everyone was happy to do business. As soon as you explained how you got there, it fell apart. Good lesson for all professionals to learn.

I make e-commerce websites. If I quote a project at $1000, I might list the various sub-services they're buying (design @ $400, programming @ $400, etc) but I certainly won't tell them my costs (Office rent @ $200, staffing @ $300, a nice bottle of wine to help me relax after doing the work @ $30, etc.) If I did they'd just argue, "I'm not paying for your wine! Lower your price by $30."

Unfortunately it looks like you're still falling for the same temptation, quoting your costs for your equipment. My advice is to find different ways to close the sale. Listing how expensive it is to do your job is defensive and will just lead to unwelcome negotiating.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[justinb138 0]

Quote

Head out to SKYDIVE DALLAS

See ya out there this weekend.

• Quote