The SIM...

[jumpjunkie2004 0]

I asked this in another thread and got no reply. At Orange, the SIM is a bible.

Is the SIM used at your dropzone as part of the training program?

Are students encouraged to buy the SIM?

I'm just curious. I think it's great that USPA is trying to encourage people to progress conservatively, but if students aren't reading the SIM...

Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat...

[veter_ 0]

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but if students aren't reading the SIM...

SIM is unreadable. Its format (ala PowerPoint presentation) with all this multilevel numbering and indentation, with hardly any logical connection between the sections makes one wonder what weed they smoked when they were writing it.

[tcnelson 1]

yeah, how dare they group like thoughts together in an organized manner. it's almost like they wanted to make a table of contents for it so that people could find what they wanted to like it's a reference work or something.

maybe you'd like a choose-your-own-adventure format instead?

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[tcnelson 1]

i jump at a non-USPA dropzone primarily but, the SIM is not discouraged or anything. the integrated student program we use includes training directly from the SIM.

i picked up a copy on my own to learn from because of the good info and the license tests are all based on it of course.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[kelpdiver 2]

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yeah, how dare they group like thoughts together in an organized manner. it's almost like they wanted to make a table of contents for it so that people could find what they wanted to like it's a reference work or something.

maybe you'd like a choose-your-own-adventure format instead?

I wish all the information in the ISP section were organized by content rather than by dive category. It's only well organized for someone that is doing those cat by cat. I didn't do the ISP, and I want to use the SIM as a reference. It sucks for trying to find the answer to a single question. The answer might be in the ISP, it might be in section 5 or 6, or it might be in the FARs in the appendix. And to find it you have to read through a lot of stuff that is no longer very relevent. Very easy to gloss right by.

[tombuch 0]

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Is the SIM used at your dropzone as part of the training program?

Are students encouraged to buy the SIM?

No and no. We have a copy available in the school office for student use, and a second copy at the main manifest office. Some instuctors mention the SIM, some do not. In my experience, it's not uncommon for a student to graduate without even knowing there is a SIM.

I'm a big fan of the SIM and think every student should have a copy. It's great take-home reading and really helps expose students to an organized progression. It's great to hear that Orange places a heavy emphasis on the SIM.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[jumpjunkie2004 0]

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SIM is unreadable.

I didn't have any difficulty following the SIM nor did my fellow students. It was presented to us right from the beginning and we were encouraged to get a copy.

It's unfortunate that the SIM isn't more widely used. It contains so much useful information.

Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat...

[jumpjunkie2004 0]

I'm sure my feelings about the SIM are influenced by the fact that I've always had one - I got mine before my first AFF jump.

It surprises me that many dropzones and instructors pass over using something that could greatly benefit their students.

Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat...

[AFFI 0]

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SIM is unreadable. Its format with all this multilevel numbering and indentation, with hardly any logical connection between the sections ****

1. Our DZ sort of teaches out of the SIM - we utilize a custom made U.S.P.A. compliant 88 page student manual that is given to every student and we teach right out of it. The information contained therein is derived from an assortment of bodies of knowledge but is largely plagiarized directly from the SIM yet, the format is comprehensive.

2. As a U.S.P.A. instructor, I encourage every student I work with to obtain and study a current SIM either by downloading or purchasing. Since the format is a bit hard to get used to I recommend that the digital version be downloaded because it is easier to locate information utilizing the search function in Adobe Acrobat Reader. The best part is the online SIM and Acrobat Reader are both free to those of us who are online and computer literate.

Very good points and quite eloquently stated might I add. The formatting of the SIM may have much to be desired, it does take time to get used to its arrangement of information. Hieroglyphics or Spanish are not unreadable languages if one learns to read them; neither is the SIM if one takes the time to; A) Learn to read English. B) Study the SIM. The U.S.P.A. is the association with whom I am licensed by to instruct other human beings to learn to skydive safely; therefore it is necessary that I teach in compliance with the U.S.P.A.’s regulatory guidelines and recommendations. I am not a “jumpmaster”, I am a U.S.P.A. Solo Freefall Instructor (teacher) and teachers educate, tutor, lecture, instruct, coach and train. Teach your students or cheat your students, it is you that has to look in the mirror every morning…

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[popsjumper 2]

I'm bringing back this thread because I am deeply concerned about students that, during their training, did not get the benefit of the knowledge available in the SIM.

Yes, we (most of us anyway) train students based on info in the SIM but I'm seeing post-AFF students and even licensed jumpers with no knowledge of the SIM and in many cases no knowledge that the SIM even exists.

A very sad state of affairs if you ask me.
IMHO, a mere $30 could make the difference between a dust-off and a major injury.

Please, don't throw that lame argument about readability at me. Show me any technical manual that makes for exciting reading and I'll eat the first chapter.
(All bets are off if you are a Tech Writer )

I favor a required hardcopy for training. However, as one poster points out, a softcopy is good too if for no other reason than the search function ease-of-use.

So, this thread was 2005...where do we stand today with respect to YOUR presentation of the SIM during the training process? Do you require as SIM? Do you mention it? Do you avoid mentioning it?

Lets' be honest here. I want to hear from both sides of the house.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[peek 20]

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Do you require as SIM? Do you mention it?

I mention both the paper and downloadable versions and tell them that they _will_ need one of them to find the information they need for review questions, tests, etc.

Some students get them immediately, some never do.

The DZ does not have them for sale, the excuse being that they go out of date at the publication of the next version. (USPA's quantity discounts are not that good.)

My opinion is that if a student with more than a few jumps does not even know about the SIM that there is something terribly wrong.

[NickDG 23]

I mentioned them in FJCs while holding up a copy. And they are available in the Square One store on the DZ so some buy them right off the bat along with the usual t-shirts. And since they are also online now, access isn't the problem.

You said not to bag on the SIM's readability, but you can't wave the issue away so easy. To those of us with some knowledge already in place it's not that bad, especially if you are used to the FAA type writing format.

But there is a reason we call the SIM the big blue sleeping pill. None but the most techie/geeky student are going to actually read it through. They may look certain things up in it but they aren't going to pour a glass of wine, lite a candle, put up their feet, and crack open the SIM.

And that's a problem. There are many gems of wisdom in the SIM but they are buried in eye glazing minutia. And it's another area of student instruction where we are doing things backwards.

Instead of hitting students over the head with a bunch of BSRs and FARs we should first teach all the common sense things in plain English, then when they see the actual regs later on they'll be more accepting because the regs make sense to them.

So USPA should stick all regs in the back of the SIM but the first sections should read more like a Boy Scout manual. As in here's how to tie a knot, make camp, build a fire, and so on.

Especially with people today, the majority of which, won't be remembered as voracious readers. You even see it here. People kid me for long postings and I find it ironic. After all, the very backbone of this website is words . . .

So the SIM needs major surgery with an eye on the demographic of its intended audience. And it definitely needs a new title. Maybe something like, "The Little Student that Could . . . "

NickD

[skybytch 259]

Every FJC student at the dz I jump at gets a SIM.

[NickDG 23]

That's a good thing . . .

I mentioned the same thing at Perris, but Square One balked because they sell them, and Ben (the DZO) said due to the volume of students we could either have a nice bar and a swimming pool or students with school books, pick one?

That was that . . .

NickD

[kallend 1,623]

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I'm bringing back this thread because I am deeply concerned about students that, during their training, did not get the benefit of the knowledge available in the SIM.

Yes, we (most of us anyway) train students based on info in the SIM but I'm seeing post-AFF students and even licensed jumpers with no knowledge of the SIM and in many cases no knowledge that the SIM even exists.

.

Are you suggesting that there's something lacking in their education?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[fred 0]

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None but the most techie/geeky student are going to actually read it through.

Mark me down as a techie/geeky student. I read it and a few other books about skydiving when I was a student. I should reread it, though.

[skyborne 0]

My DZ offers it free to any student completing AFF-3. It has a lot of good stuff in it and should be read by all students.

[SStewart 13]

I remember when the SIM first came out.... It was a blue 3-ring binder and maybe a quarter inch thick inside. A great idea; just the basics and the facts....The BSR's, The FAR's and all you needed to know to pass the written tests for the USPA licenses. You could add updates if needed.

Over the years it kept getting thicker and thicker and thicker. At this rate it will continue to grow to the point it will be the size of the yellow pages in a large city. Sorry, but nobody reads it anymore, it has become to big and too complicated.

At some point it lost it's effectiveness and even the most sage instructor can no longer remember every page. (especially since we are constantly making changes from year to year)

Do we have to carry this brick around in our back pocket so we can whip it out and refer to it every calender year to make sure we are quoting this years rules and not the last publishing?

Much of it has become a big disclaimer anyway like the pilot chute in tow advice....(you could do it this way or that way either way your screwed but maybe not)

Every year the SIM gets bigger and bigger and bigger. I think it should shrink and get smaller and smaller and smaller. Keep it simple, keep it safe.

Maybe then the newer jumpers might actually take the time to read it.

Onward and Upward!

[popsjumper 2]

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Are you suggesting that there's something lacking in their education?

To Kallend:
No. I'm of a mind of telling you there is definitely something lacking in their education...Be it initial instruction at the hands of those teaching OR at the hands of the jumper's taking control of their own post-(insert training method here) learning.

To NickDG:
OK, if you insist...yes, we all agree the SIM could benefit from the skills of a good tech writer. It is what it is and it's what we have to work with right now. I don't see that as a viable excuse to avoid reading it and learning what it has to offer.

A re-write by a competent tech writer has been mentioned many times before but nobody has stepped up to the plate as yet. Sadly, I don't see evidence of USPA doing it themselves.

To you DZs/DZOs who provide SIMS during the initial training process, I say THANK YOU! I sincerely hope that you are also doing the follow-up of getting your students to understand the value of the document. No, it's not a panacea, it's that there's so much more than just simply finding answers to quizzes and test.
It's hard to promote its value if you nay-say the document because of volume or presentation.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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-Over the years it kept getting thicker and thicker and thicker.

-Sorry, but nobody reads it anymore, it has become to big and too complicated.

-At some point it lost it's effectiveness

-(especially since we are constantly making changes from year to year)

-Do we have to carry this brick around

-Much of it has become a big disclaimer anyway

-Every year the SIM gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

Your post reads as though convenience is more important than content. Please tell me I am reading that incorrectly.

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even the most sage instructor can no longer remember every page. (especially since we are constantly making changes from year to year)

Well, of course! It's a dynamic document! The sport changes (think technology AND common sense) and, hopefully, the document refects those changes.

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Do we have to carry this brick around in our back pocket so we can whip it out and refer to it every calender year to make sure we are quoting this years rules and not the last publishing?

No, but hopefully you can think of a better way of handling a reference document other than carrying it around in your back pocket, eh? Something like keeping it in your training room? In your car? In your bathroom?

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Much of it has become a big disclaimer anyway like the pilot chute in tow advice....(you could do it this way or that way either way your screwed but maybe not)

Yes, and such is life. Many times there just are no absolutes.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[SStewart 13]

Don't get me wrong pops, I am a big fan of the SIM and I recommend all new jumpers become familiar with it. Maybe not as part of the FJC but to anyone who returns and shows interest in becoming a licensed jumper.

I just feel we should keep it more concise and to the pont. I think Nick said it best "there is a reason we call the SIM the big blue sleeping pill"

[NickDG 23]

POPs,

SStewart is right. The damn thing is written in order to hold up in court, not hold your butt up in the air. And it certainly does not need a tech writer to fix it, it needs a real writer. with a lot of skydiving and Instructing experience.

And it should be booklet sized so you could very well carry it around in your back pocket. And just what the hell is the SIM anyway? Is it a student survival manual, a guide for novices, a bible for experienced jumpers, or the laws and regs of the sport? In trying to be all those things it manages to be none of those things,

Sometimes I think it just USPA saying, "Look we are doing something!"

And if you come back at me with why don't I volunteer to re-write it I'll tell you it's impossible. It basically needs to be four separate publications. And I could certainly write the student version but some problems would be we are all over the place on student instructions ways and methods these days. And in the process I'd be getting emails every day from headquarters saying, "Holy shit, Nick, you can't say that," or this or some other thing, and working with USPA in this area would be a nightmare if you wanted to produce anything but pablum . . .

There are some things they could do right away like give the SIM some real life flow. Student/novice stuff in the beginning, experienced stuff in the middle, and all the rules and regs in the back. But even then using the current format, just rearranging the SIM would be, dare I say it? Putting lipstick on a pig.

I too remember the time before the SIM. As an Instructor I made my own, a lot of us did. You collected the hodgepodge of paperwork the USPA put out punched holes in the paper and put it all in a three ring binder. In fact I still have that thing. All the USPA did was the same thing except they used a prettier binder with a cool logo.

And I'm not totally anti-SIM as I look stuff up in it from time to time, it's that we hand them out to students/novices and then expect, sometimes even demand, that they know it.

And in it's present format, that's lame . . .

NickD

[Croc 0]

Damn, let's not let another tech writer get their grubby hands on the SIM; let's get a WRITER to make it readable and MEMORABLE. In it's present form it can put a ward of insomniacs to sleep. (If you don't believe it, read it out loud to a non-jumper.
I vote for a prose version of at least the FJC.

Shucks, I might write one myself.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[denete 2]

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Are you suggesting that there's something lacking in their education?

That's an ambiguous reference and needs clarification Kallend.

SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

[brucet7 0]

The SIM is available at my DZ. When I started I was encouraged to download a copy for USPA and several times while waiting for weather they gave me a copy to study.

I have a fancy cell phone and have downloaded the pdf onto my file and I have it with me and read it regularly. I admit that I don't read it for entertainment, but I don't read many techical manual for entertainment.

But then again, I have downloaded and read the SIM, my canopy, containers, AAD, and altimeter manuals as well.

POPS #10623; SOS #1672