Tube Stoes question

[SimonBones 1]

Love tube stoes. Always have, always will.

I buy the non-colored ones for microline (HMA500). They usually come with a few for locking stoes and the rest for regular stoes. I keep going through the locking stoes ones faster than the regular and end up with bags full of regular stoes and I order more just for the locking stoes. Anyone know how/where I can order just a bag of only locking stoes?

Alternative: I found an old thread where people say making them yourself is pretty easy. Did a couple of searches and couldn't find any good sizes that match up to the old threads recommendations. Any ideas on a good place to buy a roll of the right tubing?

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[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Love tube stoes. Always have, always will.

I buy the non-colored ones for microline (HMA500). They usually come with a few for locking stoes and the rest for regular stoes. I keep going through the locking stoes ones faster than the regular and end up with bags full of regular stoes and I order more just for the locking stoes. Anyone know how/where I can order just a bag of only locking stoes?

"large" tube stoes for dacron lines are the same size as "small" locking stoes.

You might also look at your closing technique - if you're using the stoe to close the bag it's going to wear out a lot quciker than if you pull the closing flap around the bag to meet the tube stoe.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Alternative: I found an old thread where people say making them yourself is pretty easy.

You can make them
Forget rubber tube, silicon is better. I use 4x1x1 tube for stow and a bit thicker for locking stows.

[P-dro 0]

Interesting. When you say 4x1x1 what does it represents ? Where can we purchase the silicon tube ?

[phoenixlpr 0]

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When you say 4x1x1 what does it represents ?

Outer diameter 4mm. Wall thickness 1mm ....

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Where can we purchase the silicon tube ?

That is your homework. I have bought some here: http://www.bondex.hu/

[hackish 8]

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You can make them
Forget rubber tube, silicon is better. I use 4x1x1 tube for stow and a bit thicker for locking stows.

Very interesting. I tried more than once to make them without success. Couldn't get glue that worked well enough.

-Michael

[phoenixlpr 0]

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You can make them
Forget rubber tube, silicon is better. I use 4x1x1 tube for stow and a bit thicker for locking stows.

Very interesting. I tried more than once to make them without success. Couldn't get glue that worked well enough.
-Michael

What have you used? Rubber or silicon? You need silicon glue for silicon .

[SimonBones 1]

The tubing I'm finding for sale has size listings in ID/OD. I'm not sure what your third dimension is when you say to look for tubing 4x1x1.

So you're saying that the right size tubing is 4mm outer diameter and 3mm inner diameter?

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[phoenixlpr 0]

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The tubing I'm finding for sale has size listings in ID/OD. I'm not sure what your third dimension is when you say to look for tubing 4x1x1.

So you're saying that the right size tubing is 4mm outer diameter and 3mm inner diameter?

I did using trial an error. Buy 2m and check if you can make it.
I have some trouble to find me tubes. I can tell you as soon as I find those.

[hackish 8]

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What have you used? Rubber or silicon? You need silicon glue for silicon .

I tried a surgical tube first with some model shop rubber cement it stuck but not very well. Next I tried some old RC model airplane fuel line - that was silicone but I couldn't find any glue for it so I tried the rubber cement but it didn't stick at all. When I considered the time and the costs of the materials I found that expensive as they are the reason tube stows are expensive is that they're difficult and expensive to make...

Next time I'm bored maybe I will see about making a tube stow machine. Somewhat easier than a 150hp snowblower - also on my projects list.

-Michael

[pilot-one 0]

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The tubing I'm finding for sale has size listings in ID/OD. I'm not sure what your third dimension is when you say to look for tubing 4x1x1.

So you're saying that the right size tubing is 4mm outer diameter and 3mm inner diameter?

If it's 4mm OD and 1mm wall thickness that would make it 2mm ID. Why not just stick with regular old rubber bands? They do what they were designed to do much better than tube stoes....they break much more reliably.

[SimonBones 1]

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If it's 4mm OD and 1mm wall thickness that would make it 2mm ID. Why not just stick with regular old rubber bands? They do what they were designed to do much better than tube stoes....they break much more reliably.

I never knew that the man who invented rubber bands did so for the purpose of breaking.

Seriously, tube stoes are designed to break at 25lbf. If your fully inflated pilot chute applies 90lbf of drag, a tube stoe will break if need to. A tube stoe is more reliable than a rubber band because it can roll. This causes less frictional force in pulling lines through than a flat rubber band.

If this is one of those retarded bag lock arguments, it's truly retarded. The last bag lock I saw (and pulled out of the woods for the jumper) had rubber bands on it. Based on our evaluation, the baglock would not have occurred if the jumper had used tube stoes. Why didn't the rubber band break? I don't know, but it was holding flat against the lines causing much more frictional force against pulling the lines than a tube stoe would have because it would have rolled. Eric if you're still reading you should post the picture.

Tube stoes were made to wear less than rubber bands. They do not cause bag locks in situations that a rubber band wouldn't. It's an inbred theory passed around by the ignorant and uneducated.

The only reason to get rubber bands over tube stoes is the lower cost.

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[strop45 0]

The best way to glue rubber is to use superglue (CA). It is common to make o-rings this way and works really well. You can get different 'speeds' and thickness of superglue from your local model shop.

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

[Genego 2]

Yes rubber bands were designed to break for a very good reason.

I wouldn't consider John Sherman from Jumpshack to be either ignorant or uneducated considering he is certainly closing in on 40 years in the sport, and has made innumerable rigs over the years. He recommends the use of Mil Spec rubber bands. And has gone so far as to develop (test/certify/) a reserve freebag that uses Mil Spec rubber bands only. Read his article on the JumpShack web site. Before we toss around "inbred" "ignorant" "uneducated" perhaps we should consider the opinions of those who are responsible for the development of modern parachute equipment and have actually tested their inbred, ignorant, uneducated opinions.

A reason to get rubber bands over Tube Stoes IS the lower cost. You will replace a "questionable" rubber band without a thought, but will use Tube Stoes long past the point of serviceability just because they are expensive by comparison.

My opinions are formed over 25+ years in the sport and 20+ years as a certificated rigger.

blue skies

I live with fear and terror, but sometimes I leave her and go skydiving.

[SimonBones 1]

I finally got around to searching for and reading the article you mention. Nowhere in the article does it say that his opinion is that tube stoes cause bag locks. In fact, tube stoes are mentioned nowhere in the article! So I agree, "inbred" "ignorant" and "uneducated" would not apply to your friend.

His aricle addressed stronger strength ruber bands that ultimately melted in high temperatures and caused baglocks. This is irrelevant to this tube stoe discussion because tube stoes have not been found to melt to peoples lines, they do break at 25lbf, and they have the advantage of rolling (reducing the chance of a baglock).

Again, I have never seen a tube stoe cause a baglock, a tube stoe would not cause a baglock in a situation that a rubber band wouldn't, I have seen rubber bands cause baglocks because they were flat against the lines (where a tube stoe would have rolled and released the bag lock). I have seen rubber bands not break during bag locks.

I repeat my statement: Tube stoes do not cause bag locks in situations that a rubber band wouldn't. It's an inbred theory passed around by the ignorant and uneducated.

108 way head down world record!!!
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[JohnDeere 0]

Tell us how you really feel!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[windswooper 0]

Yes Simon, I am uneducated and ignorant. But I have witnessed three bag locks first hand that involved tube stows. Yes I know, you will say it would have still happened with rubber bands. Have you ever tested tube stows to see how strong they are? I can consistently break rubber bands in the situation where one stow is locked by another going through it with 28 lbs of force using a calibrated scale. Try this with a tube stow and you may be surprised at how much force it takes. I know I was.

I've also witnessed a bag lock where a rubber band was involved but I've seen enough broken rubber bands on my own equipment and while packing others to see a pattern here.

I love tube stows because I hate changing rubber bands but I also hate looking for a parachute still packed in a black bag somewhere out in the woods. Its hard enough trying to find one that was fully inflated before it was cut away. But bag locks are infrequent and if you are careful with putting your bag in the container you should be okay.

Just my two cents but what the heck would I know?

John H

[windswooper 0]

I'm pretty sure I'm not the product of inbreeding but I was born in Boonsboro so I could be wrong about that too.

John H

(edited because I can't spell)

[SimonBones 1]

Hey John! I didn't realize you lurked on here! Long time no see!

After a discussion with some of the Navy special operations riggers about their tests on tube stoes I decided to bust a couple myself using a spring tension meter. I don't know about popping them with one stow locking another stoe or how I would make it do that so it could be tesed with a tension meter. Especially since tube stoes roll, how would I set that experiment up so they wouldn't? If you have done some tests with one stoe locking another tube stoe and you were able to get them to not roll off, was the required break force less than 90lbf?

Anyway, back to the original question and point of the thread, do you have any insight into the best resources and methods for making my own tube stoes?

It seems hard to have any sort of discussion about tube stoes without all the baglock conspiracy theorists popping out of the woodwork to start whining about rubber bands, it's like an insect infestation. They must hav some stock in a rubber band company or something.

108 way head down world record!!!
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[jerm 0]

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I wouldn't consider John Sherman from Jumpshack to be either ignorant or uneducated considering he is certainly closing in on 40 years in the sport

John Sherman also thinks the racer is the epitome of rig design, i know a few people with more experience than he who differ quite vehemently.

i also know several master riggers and a couple of DPREs who refuse to pack racers with the newer freebags. They have, combined, hundreds of years in the sport/industry and are equally convinced that rubberbands on a reserve bag are a bad,bad idea.

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I wouldn't consider John Sherman from Jumpshack to be either ignorant or uneducated considering he is certainly closing in on 40 years in the sport

John Sherman also thinks the racer is the epitome of rig design, i know a few people with more experience than he who differ quite vehemently.

i also know several master riggers and a couple of DPREs who refuse to pack racers with the newer freebags. They have, combined, hundreds of years in the sport/industry and are equally convinced that rubberbands on a reserve bag are a bad,bad idea.

So you can consider our sport as a religion.
What we believe might not be true, what we refuse can still work.

I still use silicone tube stows made by myself on my rigs, because they work at least for me and they seem to break during deployment and in my hands too and they seem to hold my lines organized manner.

[jerm 0]

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So you can consider our sport as a religion.
What we believe might not be true, what we refuse can still work.

indeed! like the PC in tow discussions :)

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I still use silicone tube stows made by myself on my rigs, because they work at least for me and they seem to break during deployment and in my hands too and they seem to hold my lines organized manner.

i used tube stows for years on my locking stows... easier and faster to get through the grommets.. never liked them on my regular stows, tho... didn't hold tight enough with small lines -- i doublestow regular sized rubbers for those.

i think i only stopped because it's easier to get a tight stow with rubberbands than tubestows with technora lines

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[SimonBones 1]

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John Sherman also thinks the racer is the epitome of rig design, i know a few people with more experience than he who differ quite vehemently.

I wasn't going to say it because I was trying to be nice and polite, but I figured somebody out there would! Just trying to keep the conversation off rubber bands and on tube stoes

So Phoenix, you've posted that you do this, but your 4x1x1 description isn't really specific enough. Please specify which kind of silicone you use, is it 4mmODx2mmID? And where would you get this material? Could you post a link for good tubing to use since you say that you've found a reliable way to make these?

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[phoenixlpr 0]

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So you can consider our sport as a religion.
What we believe might not be true, what we refuse can still work.

indeed! like the PC in tow discussions :)

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I still use silicone tube stows made by myself on my rigs, because they work at least for me and they seem to break during deployment and in my hands too and they seem to hold my lines organized manner.

i used tube stows for years on my locking stows... easier and faster to get through the grommets.. never liked them on my regular stows, tho... didn't hold tight enough with small lines -- i doublestow regular sized rubbers for those.

i think i only stopped because it's easier to get a tight stow with rubberbands than tubestows with technora lines

I can make them in whatever size I need.

I have started to make them, because I was tired of replacing broken rubber bands, they are quite hard to remove them if they break and buying expensive tubes too.
1 euro / piece is a bit too much.

I have seen rubber bands on locking stows and silitubes on the rest. that does not make sense for me. 95% os the time I replace locking stows anyway....

[phoenixlpr 0]

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So Phoenix, you've posted that you do this, but your 4x1x1 description isn't really specific enough. Please specify which kind of silicone you use, is it 4mmODx2mmID? And where would you get this material? Could you post a link for good tubing to use since you say that you've found a reliable way to make these?

Locking stows: OD 8mm, ID 5mm
Small stows: OD 5mm, ID 4mm
I'm sorry, I really don't know the quality of the silicone.