skydiverek 54 #1 April 13, 2005 That's right! I want to be an Air Traffic Controller Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #2 April 13, 2005 Watch "Pushing Tin." I learned all I know about how to be apart of the ATC from that movie.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 54 #3 April 13, 2005 I don't know that movie, I will watch it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spizzzarko 0 #4 April 13, 2005 hahahahahahahaaaa Dude, do you want to be locked up in some building on a saturday and sunday, telling the jump plane to squake 1352 on it's transponder when all of your buddies jump? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #5 April 13, 2005 talk to skylord Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #6 April 13, 2005 QuoteWatch "Pushing Tin." I learned all I know about how to be apart of the ATC from that movie. Yup. Awesome movie. Must buy DVD for rainy weekends at the DZ... _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Conundrum 1 #7 April 13, 2005 Very stressful job but it pays well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #8 April 13, 2005 be nice to jump planes scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gandhi 0 #9 April 13, 2005 hey dude, Im a pilot in the royal navy, and have a couple of pals who are ATC in the forces, so i can tell you what i know... in the uk its a reasonably well payed job, again as im sure you know its fairly stressful, so my pals joined the forces to do it, for more than one reason.. a) the forces pay their training b) its much more relaxed, far cheaper living and gnerally more fun c) when they come out, with the combo of being military and experience in ATC they can go to the US in a fairly senior ATC position, and yep, you can earn very well.. so it may be worth looking into the military to get you started. if not, I think the training costs around 60-70k (£) over here, i imagine its a little cheaper in the US and doesnt take long at all.. hope this helps keep up the curry Gandhi quote 'you are to go around... next time extend your landing gear' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spatula 0 #10 April 13, 2005 If you looking to be a US ATC'r then go look at this site: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos108.htm. That should tell you alot At the top of page you will find links to all your answers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites goose491 0 #11 April 13, 2005 Where? In Poland? I wouldn't know specifics about Poland but we are talking about something which does need to be pretty standard across the board. In Canada, NavCanada holds aptitude tests from time to time. You have to be a citizen, you have to be 18 years old or more, you have to have completed high-school. Other than those requirements, you pay the fee ($200CND), you write the test. It's an aptitude done in five sections: Verbal Evaluation Numerical Estimation Diagramming Spatial Reasoning Basic Checking They are very interested in seeing how you manage your time during these tests. If you look attractive to them based on your tests results, you are contacted for an interview. The interview is not really like any other. You are asked to describe, for example, situations you've been in where there is much at stake and where you've performed calmly... or swiftly... preferably both. If the interview goes well, you may be offered a spot in the training facility. Training is tough, lot's of memory work, long hours, many drop out. It's something like $2500 to be trained VFR and $3500 IFR and the training is just over half a year. I've heard it's similar around the planet... In Canada, the training facility has "everything you need" (grocery, barber, restaurants), some go and never go outside! If you do well and pass, they will place you somewhere. Pay is good and there are all sorts of bonuses. For example, they will pay you an additional $8000.00CND if you are posted to a remote loctation. Burn-out rate is high but you get lot's of time off. As a skydiver, you may feel you will deal with the "stresses" of holding lives in your hands with minimal time to react to a given situation better than most. PM me for more info if you like. I applied, did the apt test, did an interview... not for me I don't think. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quiksilver33 0 #12 April 13, 2005 Gandhi and goose491 had some good info for you as far as training/etc. "Pushing Tin" is crap in the realism aspect. About the only thing that movie got right was some of the phraseology. I only have about 5 1/2 years experience in the job so far. Got initial training in about 3 months for free thanks to the Air Force. Then there are about 8-12 months of on-the-job training, depending on you, the training, the facility/complexity, etc. I don't know much about training outside of the military, but it is becoming more and more common every day for universities to offer ATC programs. Selection is as goose491 said. The job isn't for everyone, but if you can work quickly and calmly under pressure you're a good candidate. Stress is one of the perks for me...there's a great deal of job satisfaction when you directly keep thousands of people safe every day. Burn-out...haven't hit it yet, don't think I will. Environment...I would definitely rather be outside doing something with my hands. Hence my 2 cents on the next issue...career path. Like I said, only over 5 years so far, working on becoming a commercial pilot. Know a few people who've been with the FAA for 20-30 years and LOVE what they do. There are lots of little "quirks" with the job. Physical health/age requirements for one, so it's not likely you'll be actively controlling traffic toward the end of a career like that, but by then you'll be making so much money you won't care about sitting in an office measuring out airspace or on some safety board. More specifically on the pay...say you go the military route for 4 years and get out for a civilian job. At a little contract tower (non-FAA managed), you could expect to start at around 45k/yr. Be proactive in applying for a job you really want, get an FAA job, and expect about 60-70k/yr in a tower, 70-85k in a radar facility, STARTING, and a pretty steep increase as you gain ratings/experience. There are many sites on the internet where you can get more detailed info and also those sites where you input your zip code and search for a job and it tells you the average pay. Let me know if you have any more ?s.- It's not called showing off, it's called you being mad because you can't do it! - We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyboy62000 0 #13 April 13, 2005 I am currently a controller in the US Air Force. I'm stationed at Ramstein AB and really enjoy the job. There are many possiblities coming up for hiring with the FAA in the next few years and the experience gained in the military is great for the application. As far as I know the Air Force is the only service in which the Air Traffic Controllers actually obtain an FAA Air Traffic Control Specialist rating as part of their training. The other nice thing about getting your training by serving in the Air Force is you have job security for at least four years and they pay you. The other method for getting into ATC is to attend one of the several Collegiate Initiative Programs throughout the country. Some of the schools that have them are Embry Riddle, Beaver Co. Comm. Coll. in PA, MARCC in Minnesota (a center training program) and several others. These programs get you the training you need to get your ATC specialist rating and get hired on with the FAA. The difference between this and going through the military is that you have to pay for it, you usually don't get much if any actual live ATC experience, and you don't have to spend four years in the military. Both routes have merit and the choice is a matter of what is right for you. ATC selections are going to be up for the next several years as many older controllers are reaching retirement. However, in the very recent past and near future the government has not approved many funds for controller hiring but NATCA, the ATC union, is pushing for more hiring which is needed. As far as burn-out and stress go, there are different levels of traffic at different facilities. Burnout can happen anywhere in any job, but for someone working at one of the extremely busy facilities it is more common, but I think is really more hype than reality. While it can get stressful (exciting) at times, it depends on you personally whether you could be a potential for burn-out or not. If you're interested go for it, it is a great job that I have really enjoyed so far.Blue Skies, Adam I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #14 April 13, 2005 QuoteVery stressful job but it pays well. BWAHAHA I wouldn't call GS-7 in a major metropolitan area "pays well"!!! The best that you can hope for is to last long enough to make it up to GS-12, or go management with a GM gig. Piss on it. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyboy62000 0 #15 April 13, 2005 Here's some links to information about how to get hired to the FAA as a controller. http://jobs.faa.gov/announcement_detail.asp?vac_id=52569 http://www.ama500.jccbi.gov/site/main/top/employment/Blue Skies, Adam I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites soignet 0 #16 April 13, 2005 I am a Air Traffic Controller in Louisiana and I love my job and the pay that comes with it. I consider a controller being like a doctor you don't get paid for what you do you get paid for what you know how to do. A normal day is 8 1/2 hours of boredom and 1/2 hour of controlled kaious (I work 9 hour days). When things are going like they should life is great then their is always that student pilot who seems like he is trying to hit every plane in the sky. Their is a lot of stress in the job but if you are confident in your decision making and in you skills then it is not that bad. To make it in this job you have to be able to multi task (you have to be able to talk to one Plane while listening to another plane and watching what another plane is doing) I went through the Air Force to get my training and got out when I got hired with the FAA. Their is college programs out their that you can go through to get the training you need to get a job. Where do you live (city &state) I will try to set up a tour so you can see first hand what we do. The down side is that I do work weekends when most of my friends are out jumping and I have to be at work talking to the jump plane. But I get my jumps in during the week and before work on weekends. Let me know if I can help Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justaflygirl 0 #17 April 13, 2005 Watch "Pushing Tin" with John Cusack and Billy Bob Thornton.... Great movie! (My post prolly didnt help at all did it...LOL) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skylord 1 #18 April 13, 2005 Thanks for the heads up on this thread, here is the info for US ATC. First off, it is a great, great job. I've been in it for almost 18 years now and never regretted a day of it. It is challenging, difficult, but rewarding. I work at Southern California Terminal Radar Approach Control (TRACON), the busiest facility of its kind in the world. Most of us were hired right after the 1981 PATCO debacle, which this year will be 24 years ago. The average career span of an ATC is 20-25 years, so we are retiring in great gobs. Over 12,500 will be hired in the next ten years. You take a civil service ATC aptitude test, and get put on a hiring list depending on your score. Once they get to you (which will be fast now that they are hiring people) you MUST pass a security and medical check. You must be at least 18, a US citizen, and you cannot have reached your 31st birthday unless you have previous qualifying ATC experience. High School diploma/GED required, and two years work experience (can be waived). Watch "Pushing Tin", and then shut it off after 20 minutes. That's the only realistic part of the movie. Visualization is the key in ATC, the scope gives you something to look at, and the rest you have to "see" in your head. We don't run around with each other's spouses (ok, maybe a bit of that happens) and we for damn sure don't lay around on runways getting sucked up into the sky from wake vortices. They've just changed the pay and benefits for FAA ATC new hires. You get hired, and you report to the Academy in Oklahoma City. They used to pay you what your facility starting salary was (busier the facility, the higher your pay.) Now they start everyone at about $17,000/yr. They used to pay per diem, up until about two weeks ago, so now you have to pay your own way except for airfare. They stripped away life/health/retirement benefits too. So, you have to be able to support yourself and family from (likely) a different city and pray no one gets sick or worse. I think that totally sucks. But I digress. Once you successfully complete academy training, you get assigned to your first facility, at your expense. No move money. IF you came to my facility, your pay would increase to about $45,000/yr., and after six months you would become eligible for retirement/health/life benefits and participation in the govt. quasi-401k program. If you are not successful, you will be terminated from the job. How's that for pressure? No chance at a less complex faciility. Your pay increases according to how fast you check out on different ATC control positions. Once done with training, you'll have a base salary of just over $100,000/yr, and while that sounds nice (and it is) you will work your ass off for it. Like skydiving, you will scare yourself shitless a few times, and wonder what the hell you did wrong in a previous life to deserve this. But anything worth doing is worth suffering for, within reason. We have a special retirement system that allows you to retire at 20 years of ATC service AND age 50, or 25 years at any age. So what's the job like? It is not the 24/7 frenetic panic mode, ulcer generating environment you see stereotyped in the movies. We do have some slow times, but when it gets busy, you have to think quick and you have to think right. You have to be able to work well with others because this really is a team job. Again, a great job let me know if you want more info. I have enough stories to write a book! BobBob Marks "-when you leave the airplane its all wrong til it goes right, its a whole different mindset, this is why you have system redundancy." Mattaman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 54 #19 April 13, 2005 Thanks everyone for and info and input! I live in Poland and will be applying for the job here. But, like someone said, the job is very similar across all countries. Hence my request for general comments. Thanks again and if you have anything to add, please do Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #20 April 13, 2005 Talk to John Mitchell on here...good luck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mayberry 0 #21 April 13, 2005 Where's this guy when you need him?? Don Just kiddin'. Seriously though, I hope you do well if you do decide to go for it!!Don Here's to friends! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 54 #22 April 13, 2005 LOL, I know the story and I checked him - he does not accept PMs... Anyone else Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andrewwhyte 1 #23 April 13, 2005 I went to the Canadian training centre a couple of years ago. I started with a class of 16 students in the IFR program. Four were ultimately successful in getting their license (not me). The same day 16 others started the VFR program. 14 of them are now working with their license. These are typical success rates for the two programs. The VFR controllers are earning about 60% what the IFR controllers are making at a class two tower (sleepy). They can bid to busier towers and if they are successful at a class 5 (Toronto or Vancouver) they will earn 95% what an IFR controller will make. If they are not, they go back to their old job. Furthermore they can request IFR training later and be paid to take it. If they are unsuccessful they still have their license for the VFR job. It still bugs me that I can't do it, but when I was in control on the simulators, it was so cool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Snowwhite 0 #24 April 13, 2005 Don't know if any of you ATC guys are planning on coming to the WFFC, but you should talk to our AirBosses. We have 2, sometimes 3 of them who work the entire convention keeping everything in the air safe. I know that they would love to talk to you, and I know that they would love it if you could come up on the tower and wear the AIR BOSS t-shirt for a couple of hours with them.skydiveTaylorville.org [email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #25 April 14, 2005 QuoteWatch "Pushing Tin." I learned all I know about how to be apart of the ATC from that movie. Especialy the part about standing at the end of the runway. Got to pay attention to that part.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
AggieDave 6 #2 April 13, 2005 Watch "Pushing Tin." I learned all I know about how to be apart of the ATC from that movie.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 54 #3 April 13, 2005 I don't know that movie, I will watch it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spizzzarko 0 #4 April 13, 2005 hahahahahahahaaaa Dude, do you want to be locked up in some building on a saturday and sunday, telling the jump plane to squake 1352 on it's transponder when all of your buddies jump? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #5 April 13, 2005 talk to skylord Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #6 April 13, 2005 QuoteWatch "Pushing Tin." I learned all I know about how to be apart of the ATC from that movie. Yup. Awesome movie. Must buy DVD for rainy weekends at the DZ... _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Conundrum 1 #7 April 13, 2005 Very stressful job but it pays well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #8 April 13, 2005 be nice to jump planes scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gandhi 0 #9 April 13, 2005 hey dude, Im a pilot in the royal navy, and have a couple of pals who are ATC in the forces, so i can tell you what i know... in the uk its a reasonably well payed job, again as im sure you know its fairly stressful, so my pals joined the forces to do it, for more than one reason.. a) the forces pay their training b) its much more relaxed, far cheaper living and gnerally more fun c) when they come out, with the combo of being military and experience in ATC they can go to the US in a fairly senior ATC position, and yep, you can earn very well.. so it may be worth looking into the military to get you started. if not, I think the training costs around 60-70k (£) over here, i imagine its a little cheaper in the US and doesnt take long at all.. hope this helps keep up the curry Gandhi quote 'you are to go around... next time extend your landing gear' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spatula 0 #10 April 13, 2005 If you looking to be a US ATC'r then go look at this site: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos108.htm. That should tell you alot At the top of page you will find links to all your answers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites goose491 0 #11 April 13, 2005 Where? In Poland? I wouldn't know specifics about Poland but we are talking about something which does need to be pretty standard across the board. In Canada, NavCanada holds aptitude tests from time to time. You have to be a citizen, you have to be 18 years old or more, you have to have completed high-school. Other than those requirements, you pay the fee ($200CND), you write the test. It's an aptitude done in five sections: Verbal Evaluation Numerical Estimation Diagramming Spatial Reasoning Basic Checking They are very interested in seeing how you manage your time during these tests. If you look attractive to them based on your tests results, you are contacted for an interview. The interview is not really like any other. You are asked to describe, for example, situations you've been in where there is much at stake and where you've performed calmly... or swiftly... preferably both. If the interview goes well, you may be offered a spot in the training facility. Training is tough, lot's of memory work, long hours, many drop out. It's something like $2500 to be trained VFR and $3500 IFR and the training is just over half a year. I've heard it's similar around the planet... In Canada, the training facility has "everything you need" (grocery, barber, restaurants), some go and never go outside! If you do well and pass, they will place you somewhere. Pay is good and there are all sorts of bonuses. For example, they will pay you an additional $8000.00CND if you are posted to a remote loctation. Burn-out rate is high but you get lot's of time off. As a skydiver, you may feel you will deal with the "stresses" of holding lives in your hands with minimal time to react to a given situation better than most. PM me for more info if you like. I applied, did the apt test, did an interview... not for me I don't think. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quiksilver33 0 #12 April 13, 2005 Gandhi and goose491 had some good info for you as far as training/etc. "Pushing Tin" is crap in the realism aspect. About the only thing that movie got right was some of the phraseology. I only have about 5 1/2 years experience in the job so far. Got initial training in about 3 months for free thanks to the Air Force. Then there are about 8-12 months of on-the-job training, depending on you, the training, the facility/complexity, etc. I don't know much about training outside of the military, but it is becoming more and more common every day for universities to offer ATC programs. Selection is as goose491 said. The job isn't for everyone, but if you can work quickly and calmly under pressure you're a good candidate. Stress is one of the perks for me...there's a great deal of job satisfaction when you directly keep thousands of people safe every day. Burn-out...haven't hit it yet, don't think I will. Environment...I would definitely rather be outside doing something with my hands. Hence my 2 cents on the next issue...career path. Like I said, only over 5 years so far, working on becoming a commercial pilot. Know a few people who've been with the FAA for 20-30 years and LOVE what they do. There are lots of little "quirks" with the job. Physical health/age requirements for one, so it's not likely you'll be actively controlling traffic toward the end of a career like that, but by then you'll be making so much money you won't care about sitting in an office measuring out airspace or on some safety board. More specifically on the pay...say you go the military route for 4 years and get out for a civilian job. At a little contract tower (non-FAA managed), you could expect to start at around 45k/yr. Be proactive in applying for a job you really want, get an FAA job, and expect about 60-70k/yr in a tower, 70-85k in a radar facility, STARTING, and a pretty steep increase as you gain ratings/experience. There are many sites on the internet where you can get more detailed info and also those sites where you input your zip code and search for a job and it tells you the average pay. Let me know if you have any more ?s.- It's not called showing off, it's called you being mad because you can't do it! - We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyboy62000 0 #13 April 13, 2005 I am currently a controller in the US Air Force. I'm stationed at Ramstein AB and really enjoy the job. There are many possiblities coming up for hiring with the FAA in the next few years and the experience gained in the military is great for the application. As far as I know the Air Force is the only service in which the Air Traffic Controllers actually obtain an FAA Air Traffic Control Specialist rating as part of their training. The other nice thing about getting your training by serving in the Air Force is you have job security for at least four years and they pay you. The other method for getting into ATC is to attend one of the several Collegiate Initiative Programs throughout the country. Some of the schools that have them are Embry Riddle, Beaver Co. Comm. Coll. in PA, MARCC in Minnesota (a center training program) and several others. These programs get you the training you need to get your ATC specialist rating and get hired on with the FAA. The difference between this and going through the military is that you have to pay for it, you usually don't get much if any actual live ATC experience, and you don't have to spend four years in the military. Both routes have merit and the choice is a matter of what is right for you. ATC selections are going to be up for the next several years as many older controllers are reaching retirement. However, in the very recent past and near future the government has not approved many funds for controller hiring but NATCA, the ATC union, is pushing for more hiring which is needed. As far as burn-out and stress go, there are different levels of traffic at different facilities. Burnout can happen anywhere in any job, but for someone working at one of the extremely busy facilities it is more common, but I think is really more hype than reality. While it can get stressful (exciting) at times, it depends on you personally whether you could be a potential for burn-out or not. If you're interested go for it, it is a great job that I have really enjoyed so far.Blue Skies, Adam I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #14 April 13, 2005 QuoteVery stressful job but it pays well. BWAHAHA I wouldn't call GS-7 in a major metropolitan area "pays well"!!! The best that you can hope for is to last long enough to make it up to GS-12, or go management with a GM gig. Piss on it. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyboy62000 0 #15 April 13, 2005 Here's some links to information about how to get hired to the FAA as a controller. http://jobs.faa.gov/announcement_detail.asp?vac_id=52569 http://www.ama500.jccbi.gov/site/main/top/employment/Blue Skies, Adam I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites soignet 0 #16 April 13, 2005 I am a Air Traffic Controller in Louisiana and I love my job and the pay that comes with it. I consider a controller being like a doctor you don't get paid for what you do you get paid for what you know how to do. A normal day is 8 1/2 hours of boredom and 1/2 hour of controlled kaious (I work 9 hour days). When things are going like they should life is great then their is always that student pilot who seems like he is trying to hit every plane in the sky. Their is a lot of stress in the job but if you are confident in your decision making and in you skills then it is not that bad. To make it in this job you have to be able to multi task (you have to be able to talk to one Plane while listening to another plane and watching what another plane is doing) I went through the Air Force to get my training and got out when I got hired with the FAA. Their is college programs out their that you can go through to get the training you need to get a job. Where do you live (city &state) I will try to set up a tour so you can see first hand what we do. The down side is that I do work weekends when most of my friends are out jumping and I have to be at work talking to the jump plane. But I get my jumps in during the week and before work on weekends. Let me know if I can help Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justaflygirl 0 #17 April 13, 2005 Watch "Pushing Tin" with John Cusack and Billy Bob Thornton.... Great movie! (My post prolly didnt help at all did it...LOL) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skylord 1 #18 April 13, 2005 Thanks for the heads up on this thread, here is the info for US ATC. First off, it is a great, great job. I've been in it for almost 18 years now and never regretted a day of it. It is challenging, difficult, but rewarding. I work at Southern California Terminal Radar Approach Control (TRACON), the busiest facility of its kind in the world. Most of us were hired right after the 1981 PATCO debacle, which this year will be 24 years ago. The average career span of an ATC is 20-25 years, so we are retiring in great gobs. Over 12,500 will be hired in the next ten years. You take a civil service ATC aptitude test, and get put on a hiring list depending on your score. Once they get to you (which will be fast now that they are hiring people) you MUST pass a security and medical check. You must be at least 18, a US citizen, and you cannot have reached your 31st birthday unless you have previous qualifying ATC experience. High School diploma/GED required, and two years work experience (can be waived). Watch "Pushing Tin", and then shut it off after 20 minutes. That's the only realistic part of the movie. Visualization is the key in ATC, the scope gives you something to look at, and the rest you have to "see" in your head. We don't run around with each other's spouses (ok, maybe a bit of that happens) and we for damn sure don't lay around on runways getting sucked up into the sky from wake vortices. They've just changed the pay and benefits for FAA ATC new hires. You get hired, and you report to the Academy in Oklahoma City. They used to pay you what your facility starting salary was (busier the facility, the higher your pay.) Now they start everyone at about $17,000/yr. They used to pay per diem, up until about two weeks ago, so now you have to pay your own way except for airfare. They stripped away life/health/retirement benefits too. So, you have to be able to support yourself and family from (likely) a different city and pray no one gets sick or worse. I think that totally sucks. But I digress. Once you successfully complete academy training, you get assigned to your first facility, at your expense. No move money. IF you came to my facility, your pay would increase to about $45,000/yr., and after six months you would become eligible for retirement/health/life benefits and participation in the govt. quasi-401k program. If you are not successful, you will be terminated from the job. How's that for pressure? No chance at a less complex faciility. Your pay increases according to how fast you check out on different ATC control positions. Once done with training, you'll have a base salary of just over $100,000/yr, and while that sounds nice (and it is) you will work your ass off for it. Like skydiving, you will scare yourself shitless a few times, and wonder what the hell you did wrong in a previous life to deserve this. But anything worth doing is worth suffering for, within reason. We have a special retirement system that allows you to retire at 20 years of ATC service AND age 50, or 25 years at any age. So what's the job like? It is not the 24/7 frenetic panic mode, ulcer generating environment you see stereotyped in the movies. We do have some slow times, but when it gets busy, you have to think quick and you have to think right. You have to be able to work well with others because this really is a team job. Again, a great job let me know if you want more info. I have enough stories to write a book! BobBob Marks "-when you leave the airplane its all wrong til it goes right, its a whole different mindset, this is why you have system redundancy." Mattaman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 54 #19 April 13, 2005 Thanks everyone for and info and input! I live in Poland and will be applying for the job here. But, like someone said, the job is very similar across all countries. Hence my request for general comments. Thanks again and if you have anything to add, please do Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #20 April 13, 2005 Talk to John Mitchell on here...good luck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mayberry 0 #21 April 13, 2005 Where's this guy when you need him?? Don Just kiddin'. Seriously though, I hope you do well if you do decide to go for it!!Don Here's to friends! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 54 #22 April 13, 2005 LOL, I know the story and I checked him - he does not accept PMs... Anyone else Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andrewwhyte 1 #23 April 13, 2005 I went to the Canadian training centre a couple of years ago. I started with a class of 16 students in the IFR program. Four were ultimately successful in getting their license (not me). The same day 16 others started the VFR program. 14 of them are now working with their license. These are typical success rates for the two programs. The VFR controllers are earning about 60% what the IFR controllers are making at a class two tower (sleepy). They can bid to busier towers and if they are successful at a class 5 (Toronto or Vancouver) they will earn 95% what an IFR controller will make. If they are not, they go back to their old job. Furthermore they can request IFR training later and be paid to take it. If they are unsuccessful they still have their license for the VFR job. It still bugs me that I can't do it, but when I was in control on the simulators, it was so cool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Snowwhite 0 #24 April 13, 2005 Don't know if any of you ATC guys are planning on coming to the WFFC, but you should talk to our AirBosses. We have 2, sometimes 3 of them who work the entire convention keeping everything in the air safe. I know that they would love to talk to you, and I know that they would love it if you could come up on the tower and wear the AIR BOSS t-shirt for a couple of hours with them.skydiveTaylorville.org [email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #25 April 14, 2005 QuoteWatch "Pushing Tin." I learned all I know about how to be apart of the ATC from that movie. Especialy the part about standing at the end of the runway. Got to pay attention to that part.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Spizzzarko 0 #4 April 13, 2005 hahahahahahahaaaa Dude, do you want to be locked up in some building on a saturday and sunday, telling the jump plane to squake 1352 on it's transponder when all of your buddies jump? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #6 April 13, 2005 QuoteWatch "Pushing Tin." I learned all I know about how to be apart of the ATC from that movie. Yup. Awesome movie. Must buy DVD for rainy weekends at the DZ... _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #7 April 13, 2005 Very stressful job but it pays well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #8 April 13, 2005 be nice to jump planes scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gandhi 0 #9 April 13, 2005 hey dude, Im a pilot in the royal navy, and have a couple of pals who are ATC in the forces, so i can tell you what i know... in the uk its a reasonably well payed job, again as im sure you know its fairly stressful, so my pals joined the forces to do it, for more than one reason.. a) the forces pay their training b) its much more relaxed, far cheaper living and gnerally more fun c) when they come out, with the combo of being military and experience in ATC they can go to the US in a fairly senior ATC position, and yep, you can earn very well.. so it may be worth looking into the military to get you started. if not, I think the training costs around 60-70k (£) over here, i imagine its a little cheaper in the US and doesnt take long at all.. hope this helps keep up the curry Gandhi quote 'you are to go around... next time extend your landing gear' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spatula 0 #10 April 13, 2005 If you looking to be a US ATC'r then go look at this site: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos108.htm. That should tell you alot At the top of page you will find links to all your answers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #11 April 13, 2005 Where? In Poland? I wouldn't know specifics about Poland but we are talking about something which does need to be pretty standard across the board. In Canada, NavCanada holds aptitude tests from time to time. You have to be a citizen, you have to be 18 years old or more, you have to have completed high-school. Other than those requirements, you pay the fee ($200CND), you write the test. It's an aptitude done in five sections: Verbal Evaluation Numerical Estimation Diagramming Spatial Reasoning Basic Checking They are very interested in seeing how you manage your time during these tests. If you look attractive to them based on your tests results, you are contacted for an interview. The interview is not really like any other. You are asked to describe, for example, situations you've been in where there is much at stake and where you've performed calmly... or swiftly... preferably both. If the interview goes well, you may be offered a spot in the training facility. Training is tough, lot's of memory work, long hours, many drop out. It's something like $2500 to be trained VFR and $3500 IFR and the training is just over half a year. I've heard it's similar around the planet... In Canada, the training facility has "everything you need" (grocery, barber, restaurants), some go and never go outside! If you do well and pass, they will place you somewhere. Pay is good and there are all sorts of bonuses. For example, they will pay you an additional $8000.00CND if you are posted to a remote loctation. Burn-out rate is high but you get lot's of time off. As a skydiver, you may feel you will deal with the "stresses" of holding lives in your hands with minimal time to react to a given situation better than most. PM me for more info if you like. I applied, did the apt test, did an interview... not for me I don't think. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quiksilver33 0 #12 April 13, 2005 Gandhi and goose491 had some good info for you as far as training/etc. "Pushing Tin" is crap in the realism aspect. About the only thing that movie got right was some of the phraseology. I only have about 5 1/2 years experience in the job so far. Got initial training in about 3 months for free thanks to the Air Force. Then there are about 8-12 months of on-the-job training, depending on you, the training, the facility/complexity, etc. I don't know much about training outside of the military, but it is becoming more and more common every day for universities to offer ATC programs. Selection is as goose491 said. The job isn't for everyone, but if you can work quickly and calmly under pressure you're a good candidate. Stress is one of the perks for me...there's a great deal of job satisfaction when you directly keep thousands of people safe every day. Burn-out...haven't hit it yet, don't think I will. Environment...I would definitely rather be outside doing something with my hands. Hence my 2 cents on the next issue...career path. Like I said, only over 5 years so far, working on becoming a commercial pilot. Know a few people who've been with the FAA for 20-30 years and LOVE what they do. There are lots of little "quirks" with the job. Physical health/age requirements for one, so it's not likely you'll be actively controlling traffic toward the end of a career like that, but by then you'll be making so much money you won't care about sitting in an office measuring out airspace or on some safety board. More specifically on the pay...say you go the military route for 4 years and get out for a civilian job. At a little contract tower (non-FAA managed), you could expect to start at around 45k/yr. Be proactive in applying for a job you really want, get an FAA job, and expect about 60-70k/yr in a tower, 70-85k in a radar facility, STARTING, and a pretty steep increase as you gain ratings/experience. There are many sites on the internet where you can get more detailed info and also those sites where you input your zip code and search for a job and it tells you the average pay. Let me know if you have any more ?s.- It's not called showing off, it's called you being mad because you can't do it! - We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyboy62000 0 #13 April 13, 2005 I am currently a controller in the US Air Force. I'm stationed at Ramstein AB and really enjoy the job. There are many possiblities coming up for hiring with the FAA in the next few years and the experience gained in the military is great for the application. As far as I know the Air Force is the only service in which the Air Traffic Controllers actually obtain an FAA Air Traffic Control Specialist rating as part of their training. The other nice thing about getting your training by serving in the Air Force is you have job security for at least four years and they pay you. The other method for getting into ATC is to attend one of the several Collegiate Initiative Programs throughout the country. Some of the schools that have them are Embry Riddle, Beaver Co. Comm. Coll. in PA, MARCC in Minnesota (a center training program) and several others. These programs get you the training you need to get your ATC specialist rating and get hired on with the FAA. The difference between this and going through the military is that you have to pay for it, you usually don't get much if any actual live ATC experience, and you don't have to spend four years in the military. Both routes have merit and the choice is a matter of what is right for you. ATC selections are going to be up for the next several years as many older controllers are reaching retirement. However, in the very recent past and near future the government has not approved many funds for controller hiring but NATCA, the ATC union, is pushing for more hiring which is needed. As far as burn-out and stress go, there are different levels of traffic at different facilities. Burnout can happen anywhere in any job, but for someone working at one of the extremely busy facilities it is more common, but I think is really more hype than reality. While it can get stressful (exciting) at times, it depends on you personally whether you could be a potential for burn-out or not. If you're interested go for it, it is a great job that I have really enjoyed so far.Blue Skies, Adam I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #14 April 13, 2005 QuoteVery stressful job but it pays well. BWAHAHA I wouldn't call GS-7 in a major metropolitan area "pays well"!!! The best that you can hope for is to last long enough to make it up to GS-12, or go management with a GM gig. Piss on it. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyboy62000 0 #15 April 13, 2005 Here's some links to information about how to get hired to the FAA as a controller. http://jobs.faa.gov/announcement_detail.asp?vac_id=52569 http://www.ama500.jccbi.gov/site/main/top/employment/Blue Skies, Adam I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soignet 0 #16 April 13, 2005 I am a Air Traffic Controller in Louisiana and I love my job and the pay that comes with it. I consider a controller being like a doctor you don't get paid for what you do you get paid for what you know how to do. A normal day is 8 1/2 hours of boredom and 1/2 hour of controlled kaious (I work 9 hour days). When things are going like they should life is great then their is always that student pilot who seems like he is trying to hit every plane in the sky. Their is a lot of stress in the job but if you are confident in your decision making and in you skills then it is not that bad. To make it in this job you have to be able to multi task (you have to be able to talk to one Plane while listening to another plane and watching what another plane is doing) I went through the Air Force to get my training and got out when I got hired with the FAA. Their is college programs out their that you can go through to get the training you need to get a job. Where do you live (city &state) I will try to set up a tour so you can see first hand what we do. The down side is that I do work weekends when most of my friends are out jumping and I have to be at work talking to the jump plane. But I get my jumps in during the week and before work on weekends. Let me know if I can help Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justaflygirl 0 #17 April 13, 2005 Watch "Pushing Tin" with John Cusack and Billy Bob Thornton.... Great movie! (My post prolly didnt help at all did it...LOL) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skylord 1 #18 April 13, 2005 Thanks for the heads up on this thread, here is the info for US ATC. First off, it is a great, great job. I've been in it for almost 18 years now and never regretted a day of it. It is challenging, difficult, but rewarding. I work at Southern California Terminal Radar Approach Control (TRACON), the busiest facility of its kind in the world. Most of us were hired right after the 1981 PATCO debacle, which this year will be 24 years ago. The average career span of an ATC is 20-25 years, so we are retiring in great gobs. Over 12,500 will be hired in the next ten years. You take a civil service ATC aptitude test, and get put on a hiring list depending on your score. Once they get to you (which will be fast now that they are hiring people) you MUST pass a security and medical check. You must be at least 18, a US citizen, and you cannot have reached your 31st birthday unless you have previous qualifying ATC experience. High School diploma/GED required, and two years work experience (can be waived). Watch "Pushing Tin", and then shut it off after 20 minutes. That's the only realistic part of the movie. Visualization is the key in ATC, the scope gives you something to look at, and the rest you have to "see" in your head. We don't run around with each other's spouses (ok, maybe a bit of that happens) and we for damn sure don't lay around on runways getting sucked up into the sky from wake vortices. They've just changed the pay and benefits for FAA ATC new hires. You get hired, and you report to the Academy in Oklahoma City. They used to pay you what your facility starting salary was (busier the facility, the higher your pay.) Now they start everyone at about $17,000/yr. They used to pay per diem, up until about two weeks ago, so now you have to pay your own way except for airfare. They stripped away life/health/retirement benefits too. So, you have to be able to support yourself and family from (likely) a different city and pray no one gets sick or worse. I think that totally sucks. But I digress. Once you successfully complete academy training, you get assigned to your first facility, at your expense. No move money. IF you came to my facility, your pay would increase to about $45,000/yr., and after six months you would become eligible for retirement/health/life benefits and participation in the govt. quasi-401k program. If you are not successful, you will be terminated from the job. How's that for pressure? No chance at a less complex faciility. Your pay increases according to how fast you check out on different ATC control positions. Once done with training, you'll have a base salary of just over $100,000/yr, and while that sounds nice (and it is) you will work your ass off for it. Like skydiving, you will scare yourself shitless a few times, and wonder what the hell you did wrong in a previous life to deserve this. But anything worth doing is worth suffering for, within reason. We have a special retirement system that allows you to retire at 20 years of ATC service AND age 50, or 25 years at any age. So what's the job like? It is not the 24/7 frenetic panic mode, ulcer generating environment you see stereotyped in the movies. We do have some slow times, but when it gets busy, you have to think quick and you have to think right. You have to be able to work well with others because this really is a team job. Again, a great job let me know if you want more info. I have enough stories to write a book! BobBob Marks "-when you leave the airplane its all wrong til it goes right, its a whole different mindset, this is why you have system redundancy." Mattaman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 54 #19 April 13, 2005 Thanks everyone for and info and input! I live in Poland and will be applying for the job here. But, like someone said, the job is very similar across all countries. Hence my request for general comments. Thanks again and if you have anything to add, please do Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #20 April 13, 2005 Talk to John Mitchell on here...good luck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mayberry 0 #21 April 13, 2005 Where's this guy when you need him?? Don Just kiddin'. Seriously though, I hope you do well if you do decide to go for it!!Don Here's to friends! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 54 #22 April 13, 2005 LOL, I know the story and I checked him - he does not accept PMs... Anyone else Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andrewwhyte 1 #23 April 13, 2005 I went to the Canadian training centre a couple of years ago. I started with a class of 16 students in the IFR program. Four were ultimately successful in getting their license (not me). The same day 16 others started the VFR program. 14 of them are now working with their license. These are typical success rates for the two programs. The VFR controllers are earning about 60% what the IFR controllers are making at a class two tower (sleepy). They can bid to busier towers and if they are successful at a class 5 (Toronto or Vancouver) they will earn 95% what an IFR controller will make. If they are not, they go back to their old job. Furthermore they can request IFR training later and be paid to take it. If they are unsuccessful they still have their license for the VFR job. It still bugs me that I can't do it, but when I was in control on the simulators, it was so cool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Snowwhite 0 #24 April 13, 2005 Don't know if any of you ATC guys are planning on coming to the WFFC, but you should talk to our AirBosses. We have 2, sometimes 3 of them who work the entire convention keeping everything in the air safe. I know that they would love to talk to you, and I know that they would love it if you could come up on the tower and wear the AIR BOSS t-shirt for a couple of hours with them.skydiveTaylorville.org [email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #25 April 14, 2005 QuoteWatch "Pushing Tin." I learned all I know about how to be apart of the ATC from that movie. Especialy the part about standing at the end of the runway. Got to pay attention to that part.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Amazon 7 #20 April 13, 2005 Talk to John Mitchell on here...good luck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mayberry 0 #21 April 13, 2005 Where's this guy when you need him?? Don Just kiddin'. Seriously though, I hope you do well if you do decide to go for it!!Don Here's to friends! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 54 #22 April 13, 2005 LOL, I know the story and I checked him - he does not accept PMs... Anyone else Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andrewwhyte 1 #23 April 13, 2005 I went to the Canadian training centre a couple of years ago. I started with a class of 16 students in the IFR program. Four were ultimately successful in getting their license (not me). The same day 16 others started the VFR program. 14 of them are now working with their license. These are typical success rates for the two programs. The VFR controllers are earning about 60% what the IFR controllers are making at a class two tower (sleepy). They can bid to busier towers and if they are successful at a class 5 (Toronto or Vancouver) they will earn 95% what an IFR controller will make. If they are not, they go back to their old job. Furthermore they can request IFR training later and be paid to take it. If they are unsuccessful they still have their license for the VFR job. It still bugs me that I can't do it, but when I was in control on the simulators, it was so cool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Snowwhite 0 #24 April 13, 2005 Don't know if any of you ATC guys are planning on coming to the WFFC, but you should talk to our AirBosses. We have 2, sometimes 3 of them who work the entire convention keeping everything in the air safe. I know that they would love to talk to you, and I know that they would love it if you could come up on the tower and wear the AIR BOSS t-shirt for a couple of hours with them.skydiveTaylorville.org [email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #25 April 14, 2005 QuoteWatch "Pushing Tin." I learned all I know about how to be apart of the ATC from that movie. Especialy the part about standing at the end of the runway. Got to pay attention to that part.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Andrewwhyte 1 #23 April 13, 2005 I went to the Canadian training centre a couple of years ago. I started with a class of 16 students in the IFR program. Four were ultimately successful in getting their license (not me). The same day 16 others started the VFR program. 14 of them are now working with their license. These are typical success rates for the two programs. The VFR controllers are earning about 60% what the IFR controllers are making at a class two tower (sleepy). They can bid to busier towers and if they are successful at a class 5 (Toronto or Vancouver) they will earn 95% what an IFR controller will make. If they are not, they go back to their old job. Furthermore they can request IFR training later and be paid to take it. If they are unsuccessful they still have their license for the VFR job. It still bugs me that I can't do it, but when I was in control on the simulators, it was so cool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #24 April 13, 2005 Don't know if any of you ATC guys are planning on coming to the WFFC, but you should talk to our AirBosses. We have 2, sometimes 3 of them who work the entire convention keeping everything in the air safe. I know that they would love to talk to you, and I know that they would love it if you could come up on the tower and wear the AIR BOSS t-shirt for a couple of hours with them.skydiveTaylorville.org [email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #25 April 14, 2005 QuoteWatch "Pushing Tin." I learned all I know about how to be apart of the ATC from that movie. Especialy the part about standing at the end of the runway. Got to pay attention to that part.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
