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diablopilot

Avoiding canopy Collisions.

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Obviously at the time of this post there are no details about the most recent incident, however based on the current trend of similar incidents I feel compelled to share some thoughts.

See and avoid works in general aviation as a valuable tool to maintain separation between aircraft in the same airspace, and it works quite well in skydiving if applied. Too often skydivers are not trained, or simply forget to apply the method of looking around and scanning the air around them for other traffic. Hopefully none of us drive our cars without occasionally checking the mirrors or looking out the side window every once and a while. Keep that head moving, your canopy will continue to fly just fine if you take your eyes off the target for a moment.

Situation awareness is important to begin developing and practicing from the earliest of jumps. Usually you know how many people are going to be in the air with you at the same time, you shared the plane ride up with all of them. Start practicing the habit of accounting for all the other canopies while flying yours. Those you can't account for, be extra vigilant in your search. It's not as hard as it sounds.

Share the landing area, pilots do, and they haven't got near the options we do as skydivers. They are usually limited to one or two choices for heading, and can rarely land more than one at a time, we have 360+ choices in heading, and countless number more runways than pilots. High performance canopy pilots share the same landing points through prior planning, and while fun jumpers might not need such planning, in place of it they need to select a different landing point than someone landing at the same time as them.

Predictable patterns, go a long way in the aviation world to preventing collisions. A standard pattern of downwind, base, and final goes a long way to helping predict and find traffic. If you cannot join the standard landing pattern, consider landing out, or at the very least be extra vigilant about keeping out of the way of other landing traffic, and not crating a hazard.

Flying the appropriate canopy for the skill of the pilot is often stated, and makes sense. One must be able to fly and make decisions for where the canopy is going to be, not for where it is now, and must be able to react at the speeds that the canopy covers distance. What is often overlooked IMO, is that the canopy choice must also be selected for the situation. Or better stated yet, the canopy you fly must match your skill level in the situation you are flying it. A person may have good canopy technique when in the comfort zone of their home DZ, large landing area, with the usual max of 14 other people in the air with them at any one time, but taking their pocket rocket canopy to a boogie, or bigway puts them outside their skill set on that canopy. At that point a change must be made, either choose a different canopy, or land further away from the crowd, as simply "flying conservatively" does not seen to be working.

And finally, missing by an inch is just a good as missing by a mile, if your alive to learn the lesson of your mistake afterward. Practice, practice, practice with your parachute, so that when the time comes for an emergency avoidance action is required, you can perform it.

Please, train yourselves to be better canopy pilots people, as I'm gonna be pretty pissed if someone else kills me.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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Great post JP, and good thoughts...

Having sat on the deck while coaches talked students down, something I haven't heard:

- "Identify the other canopies around you"

It will ussually only be tandem canopies, and while they are slower than tandems or sport both vertically and horizontally, there doesn't seem to be an effort from the very beginning to "scan the sky".

A possible solution to "starting early"???

Best,
Dru
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"Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical."

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It will usually only be tandem canopies



I jump wing suits and am routinely in the air with AFF students and tandems. On a positive note, I'm down well after the swoopers, though we don't have very many hard core swoopers at my home DZ.

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- "Identify the other canopies around you"



That starts before you get in the plane. You identify the type of canopy and pilot by the people around you in the loading area. Even if you're at a boogie you can take an educated guess at the jumpers and that will help speed up your ident while under canopy.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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That starts before you get in the plane.



Couldn't state it better myself. At your home DZ what and how people are flying is usually evident, and when visiting DZ,s it's a good conversation starter. Hot dog pilots always want to talk about themselves, new pilots share notes, and seasoned jumpers and instructors are usually happy to share tips, and have a strong interest in protecting themselves.


:)
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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I jump wing suits and am routinely in the air with AFF students and tandems. On a positive note, I'm down well after the swoopers, though we don't have very many hard core swoopers at my home DZ.



As instructor it is very instructive for yourself to fly with the students! I also fly Wingsuits a lot and fly with the students in the pattern. There is hardly any day where I and my students don't learn something from flying together.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

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I jump wing suits and am routinely in the air with AFF students and tandems. On a positive note, I'm down well after the swoopers, though we don't have very many hard core swoopers at my home DZ.



As instructor it is very instructive for yourself to fly with the students! I also fly Wingsuits a lot and fly with the students in the pattern. There is hardly any day where I and my students don't learn something from flying together.



I'm not an instructor, but have been working toward my coach rating. As a result, I'm finding myself watching a LOT of student patterns and landings. I've more than once pulled other jumpers aside to talk to them about their patterns, or to ask them if they saw me or somebody else under canopy, etc. I usually have a little video to show them too. Video is a great tool when coaching and/or teaching.

Yesterday I was in the right place at the right time to capture a students first off landing (across a fence out in a nice sized field, just barely off, but safely off). She did awesome, stood it up, picked a great place, made some great decisions to get there! She and another canopy were in the air and she took landing just off instead of cutting the other canopy in the pattern off. It resulted in landing just off, but both canopies ended up safe. She is a pre A student, I think it was something like 11 or 12 for her. Anyway, I said all that to say, I think coaching and teaching that it's 'ok' to take an off to avoid a collision is ok. Landing farther away and taking that walk is ok.

Hell I had to do that one jump yesterday myself. I could have made a nice straight in against the traffic pattern. There was no wind and it would have been cake. However there was one other wing suit and two tandems still in the air. I flew a proper agreed on before hand pattern and got to land down toward the end of the run way instead of right by the hanger. Point is fly a predictable pattern, and if that means you land off to avoid other canopies, then do like this 12 jumps student did yesterday and land off or out.

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sadly enough you have to write this all again. posts like yours have been made many times and the lessons derived from the incidents threads are all to clear. also the lessons are in no way new. the really sad part is that the jumpers who should listen and who should feel spoken to, will hardly read posts like yours or listen when given the talk :|

btw: thx for the ongoing effort :)

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

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Great post. I often, while under canopy, try to not only locate other canopies in the air but also try to associate a face to that color pattern. That way I can say things like "Steve I saw your opening. That looked like it hurt" or "did you see that awesome 270 John just did?". Its good to know WHO'S around you.
Muff #5048

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There are several reasons why people may run into you just after opening.

- They aren't looking.

- They open close with an off-heading opening.

- They are in line twists and do not have steering control.

My personal technique. Just after opening, before anything else, I grab my rear risers and look around.
Then, if there is a situation, I can use my risers to quickly steer.

During big-ways, there are just more people in close proximity. I try to work harder to be safe.

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I've scaled back to doing 90s on most loads these days due to the increasing number of newer jumpers who seem to have no fucking idea why it's idiotic to spiral down below high performance traffic then start their standard (and not-so-standard, unpredictable, random s-turn) approaches across the high performance area at my home DZ.

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I've scaled back to doing 90s on most loads these days due to the increasing number of newer jumpers who seem to have no fucking idea why it's idiotic to spiral down below high performance traffic then start their standard (and not-so-standard, unpredictable, random s-turn) approaches across the high performance area at my home DZ.



I honestly think that MANY coaches and instructors fail to mention, not even once, the concept of flying actively before entering the pattern in order to maximize separation.

If you want to spin yourself dizzy go do a hop and pop. [:/] There is no place for that shit with a whole turbine load in there air. >:(

I think this bleeds over into high performance canopy flight.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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- They aren't looking.

- They open close with an off-heading opening.

- They are in line twists and do not have steering control.



All three of those are preventable. Easily preventable. The last two have to do with the obvious (opening separation) and the first one is the cause for a majority of canopy collisions.

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During big-ways, there are just more people in close proximity. I try to work harder to be safe.



That's something that you can help with gear choice. Although I jump a "big" Velocity (come on, it has 3 digits), I would NOT take it on a skydive that had more than just a couple of people on it. Even then its still really too fast of a canopy for that. I would buy another 120 at a minimum for "real" skydiving. Actually I want to buy a 150 before I go back to doing any RW or FFing. That is a more appropriate wingloading for jumping and opening with groups (for me).
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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That's something that you can help with gear choice.



I can only control my gear choice.

My previous post was largely concerned with looking out for others. If I have a good, on-heading opening, I was addressing the issue of awareness of others.

Last Saturday, I did 4 20-way jumps with jumpers that I know well. There are days when I don't know everyone.

I will never be able to control the skill level or gear type of all other jumpers on a load.

Therefore, I was trying to post my personal method of being prepared to react to possible situations.

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I will never be able to control the skill level or gear type of all other jumpers on a load.



Nope, but YOU can make a choice of whom you jump with. This is in reference to your concerns about canopy collisions on opening. The previous and next group shouldn't be an issue. If it is, then this isn't a canopy discussion anymore, its a spotting discussion.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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I will never be able to control the skill level or gear type of all other jumpers on a load.



Nope, but YOU can make a choice of whom you jump with. This is in reference to your concerns about canopy collisions on opening. The previous and next group shouldn't be an issue. If it is, then this isn't a canopy discussion anymore, its a spotting discussion.



Have you ever had line twists to the point that you could not steer your canopy for a moment?
Had your risers spin down to the point that your neck was pinned?
Can you absolutely guarantee me that you will not have them again? Ever? While near others?

If I cannot get that guarantee from you, then, by your rules, I cannot jump with you.

I sometimes organize. Many times, I do walk-up loads with other organizers. I don't know the jump numbers, packing skills, or canopy skills of everyone. No one does.

I cannot guarantee that the person on my left is not going to have a 90 degree off-heading opening and be flying at me.

The rule that you are demanding is an impossible expectation.

I try to mention guidelines that can help people cope with those possibilities.

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Have you ever had line twists to the point that you could not steer your canopy for a moment?



Yup, that canopy was chopped as I started spinning on my back. It was all very fast and violent and due to a packer double wrapping stowing two of the 8 stows on my canopy.

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If I cannot get that guarantee from you, then, by your rules, I cannot jump with you.



Nope, remember what I said? Opening separation.

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I cannot guarantee that the person on my left is not going to have a 90 degree off-heading opening and be flying at me.



Um, once again, Opening separation.

You missed my point in my previous post. Things are preventable and it all comes back down to the basics. That and to have reasonable gear choices if you're going to jump with others in large groups (ever notice how the *big* big ways have wingloading restrictions).
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Although I jump a "big" Velocity (come on, it has 3 digits), I would NOT take it on a skydive that had more than just a couple of people on it. Even then its still really too fast of a canopy for that. I would buy another 120 at a minimum for "real" skydiving. Actually I want to buy a 150 before I go back to doing any RW or FFing. That is a more appropriate wingloading for jumping and opening with groups (for me).



Why isn't here any smileys that give applauses ;)
That's exactly how it should be.

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(ever notice how the *big* big ways have wingloading restrictions).

Name one?



The last world record had a 1.6 restriction if I remember correctly. I know it had one, but I don't remember if it was 1.6 or lower than that.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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(ever notice how the *big* big ways have wingloading restrictions).

Name one?



The last world record had a 1.6 restriction if I remember correctly. I know it had one, but I don't remember if it was 1.6 or lower than that.



Do you see one on this page?

http://www.theworldteam.com/06PPSkydivers.htm
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

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(ever notice how the *big* big ways have wingloading restrictions).

Name one?



The last world record had a 1.6 restriction if I remember correctly. I know it had one, but I don't remember if it was 1.6 or lower than that.



On the last three that I was on, it was not a requirement.

Also, none of the state or POPS records brought it up.

That said, most people are not doing records.
Records are, by definition, a rare event.
99% of jumpers will never participate.

Most people are just doing 15-way at the dz.
The discussion should be more directed towards canopy collisions that occur during the "most weekends at the dz" circumstances.

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Most people are just doing 15-way at the dz.
The discussion should be more directed towards canopy collisions that occur during the "most weekends at the dz" circumstances.



And you have now gotten to my point.

Maybe as an organizer you should limit wingloadings to your "small" 15 ways. Or maybe you should organize in such a manner to put the high wingloadings on the outside of the formation so they aren't opening in the middle of all the traffic.

The overall point isn't specific items, but an attitude and acknowledgment of certain things in regards to gear choice and various aspects to skydiving.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Maybe as an organizer you should limit wingloadings to your "small" 15 ways. Or maybe you should organize in such a manner to put the high wingloadings on the outside of the formation so they aren't opening in the middle of all the traffic.



I agree that lighter loadings give a better margin for saftey, but maybe you should tell the swoopers and highly loaded pilots on the load that if they plan on pulling a big turn then they should stick to a hop and pop. That seems like the real priority here, keeping collisions from happening with people pulling big turns into other canopies.

These people haven't been dying from collisions right after opening, they are getting mowed down on final.

I am pretty confident that I won't kill any one when I swoop, because I will not pull a big turn with other people sharing the pattern. Easy solution, best solution.

It doesn't mean I don't get to swoop, it just means that I am resonsible about when I chose to do so, and after a turbine pass with 20 other canopies in the air is not that time.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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