Using riggers as a middleman

[deadwood 0]

If you are not comfortable with sending it to some rigger you don’t know, you could see who the local DPRE (Designated Parachute Rigger Examiner) is and used him as a middle man. DPREs act as representatives of the FAA, they are supposed to be of “good moral character” and they require FAA approval to renew their certificate every year. Their names and address’s can be verified on the FAA web site. If they start screwing people on gear deals a complaint to the FAA could put their Designee status in jeopardy.

Just a thought.

He who hesitates shall inherit the earth.

Deadwood
Skydive New Mexico Motorcycle Club, Touring Division

[mikedks 0]

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The rigger you're balking at is Todd Spillers. He's the DZO of SD Aggieland and a Regional Director for the USPA.

What are the chances Todd is going to put everything he has going on the line in an attempt to screw you out of some old gear for a new jumper? Pretty unlikely. Seriously.

When I've sold some gear that wasn't sold face to face, I've verified the person with their DZ and/or other jumpers that I personally know. That way I have a link with that person to be able to track them down if they bounce their check and to protect myself from a scam.

If another jumper wanted me to send gear to his/her rigger for pre-buy inspection then that's easy to verify. Where does the rigger jump or do business, who can vouch for the rigger? All that takes is a phone number for the references and a phone number for the rigger. Its not hard to follow up and verify things like this.

HUH?? who the heck is Todd Spillers? you are off base.

[mikedks 0]

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If you are not comfortable with sending it to some rigger you don’t know, you could see who the local DPRE (Designated Parachute Rigger Examiner) is and used him as a middle man. DPREs act as representatives of the FAA, they are supposed to be of “good moral character” and they require FAA approval to renew their certificate every year. Their names and address’s can be verified on the FAA web site. If they start screwing people on gear deals a complaint to the FAA could put their Designee status in jeopardy.

Just a thought.

I did contact his local DPRE for his state, said he didnt know the guy.

I was looking to have the guy verify that he had a check and was the rigger in question. Not unreasonable IMHO.

[AggieDave 6]

The earlier poster talking about getting screwed out of buying gear was trying to use Todd as a middle man for a purchase just a couple of days ago and the seller freaked out. The seller refused to send the gear to him (Todd) for a pre-buy inspection. Thus, he lost the deal.

I apologize if you weren't the person previously being referred to.

Either way, a couple of phone calls is all it takes to get some references for a rigger to determine their legitimacy. You could even ask here if someone knows the rigger. This is an exceptionally small community and most likely someone here knows the rigger in question.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kansasskydiver 0]

Mike,

I'll help ya out the best I can and like aggie said, there are many of people on dz.com who know people. Many have personally met me and can vouche for me as well. They all know I believe in pink dolphins

[councilman24 36]

There isn't anything on a riggers license that isn't out in public already. Everything is on the FAA site except the number and that's on every packing data card he signs. It USED to be the SSN but not anymore.

But as a further comment to the thread make sure the rigger is willing to do this. I got a copy of an email offering me as middleman without the suggestor asking. And the money he was asking for for shipping and my costs didn't even cover shipping.

Haven't heard anymore so I guess the sale didn't go through.

I AM willing to do it but not for nothing.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[livendive 8]

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Its really not that hard to establish bonafides in our circle. Surely, there's some old crusty fuck at your DZ who's been to enough boogies or DZ's around the country to validate. I live in Oklahoma and can reach out to the four corners of the country and ask someone, "Hey, do you know that bastard so and so...?"

We've got more than one at my dz, yet I still found myself going to one in Oklahoma for a reference just a few months ago when buying a parachute from a FNG.

I've played escrow for a few prior students now, and like having that ability to protect them...and my reputation, which my students reflect on. Personally, I've found that a good reputation is easy to earn in skydiving (dz.com notwithstanding), but a bad reputation is a bitch to outlast. With the number of parachutes/rigs I own, I'm certainly not going to risk my (questionable) reputation for one more.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[airborneak 0]

I recently had to replace all my gear after it was stolen. I purchased a used main from someone in Illinois and I am in Chicago. Both had concerns: me wantign to have the canopy checked, him not wanting to send the canopy across however many states to someone he doesn't know. to make it safe and comfortable for both, we went through the DZO/Master Rigger at my home dropzone. it was a point of accountabiity that both could look to. The seller spoke wth the DZo both to check him out and me as well. The SELLER, felt comfortable enough with the conversation to send the canopy.

This worked really well because I could feel confident that the canopy was checked out and the seller felt good about the DZo/Rigger being the middleman. So I guess my point, like so many others, if you don't feel comfortable with either conversation then it probably isn't the right buyer/seller combo.

[mikedks 0]

As a post-script to this thread, I'll add the following, this deal is now stone cold DEAD, all because of this kid's master rigger.

I wholeheartedly agree with the last post, go through the buyers DZO and the dropzone's master rigger. But therein lies the problem with this deal, no accountable DZO at collegiate affiliated DZ, and the rigger is some "Joe-Bob" who lives 2 hours away from the DZ. For all intents and purposes(as far as I can surmise), he rigs out of his garage, no true on site loft, no storefront business, no true accountability.

Funny thing, if it weren't for the people on the board who PM'd me, I really thought this was some kind of scam. Or if not a scam, this rigger and the kid were trying to turn a SALE into a try and buy. At first, I was fairly adamant that I just wanted to sell the gear and wasn't interested in any test fittings or try and buy. You guys are all skydivers, you know what the deal is, and you know what you are looking for,didn't want to drag out the process. He readily agreed as long as his rigger could inspect the gear to confirm that it is as advertised. Fair enough, then the kid gets cold feet because its not an exact fit, so I backed off and told him he could return if it didn't fit.

So days later, I talk to "Joe-Bob" and he tells me he has the check and to send the rig. At that time, I asked him for a copy of the cashier's check that he said he had in hand, he couldn't hung-up the phone fast enough. So maybe he wasn't trying to out and out scam me, but my gut tells me, he NEVER had a check in hand. After I asked the rigger for his license and a copy of the check(my bad on the license, found out from you guys I could check on FAA website,thx) the deal was immediately dead. I didn't find out until several days later, when I got a return email from the kid. He told me the rigger had never seen anyone so paranoid in all his life. Was mad that I insulted his rigger buddy and that the rigger wanted nothing to do with me. He tells me that another rigger cautioned him about me(huh?) and that multiple riggers told him the way it works is the buyer forwards the name and address of himself and rigger and that as soon as contact is made, seller sends gear. Said it was easy to track him or rigger down if it was a scam. Maybe, if you are comfortable with buyer and rigger, which I never truly was. I mean, this kid gives me an address at a college and a cell number, yeah, that gives me confidence. His rigger is 2 hours away and won't give me his rigger info or a copy of the kid's check, yeah, that also gives me confidence. Confidence being the operative word here, as in confidence man. Old school for con man, though you guys cleared that up.

So anyway, the kid then tells me that if I want to sell him the rig, I'm not allowed to contact his other rigger buddies!? Says, no middleman, no rigger, just you and me. Now THAT sounds like a scam.

I actually gave him another opportunity through another of his riggers, never heard back from him.

So I dunno, yeah I'm ticked and could easy flame the guy and his rigger, but I choose to keep this civil.

But I will say this, and it should be well within the rules; be wary of the mid-west college affiliated DZ's crusty old Joe-Bob rigger who lives two hours away. The kid's probably alright, just extremely misled and misguided.

I apologize to any Joe-Bob's that I offended.

Thanks for letting me vent.

PS/PS-Gear is still for sale