Buying a mint 40 jump canopy from a rigger - inspection

[likestojump 3]

So, say you found a nice near mint (40 jumps) canopy in the classifieds at the price that you like. The seller is in the US, long registered account on dz.com with post history, and answers email well, as well as provides a phone number. The seller is also a rigger. How do you feel about the transaction ?

[NWFlyer 2]

Someone questioning your credibility?

We spend so much time on here cautioning people (particularly newer jumpers) to cover their own ass when transacting business on dropzone.com. I don't think it should be any different because someone is a longtime poster, premier member, or their profile says they are a rigger. Or even if you validated that they are a rigger by looking it up in the database. Just because someone's a rigger doesn't automatically make them trustworthy, unfortunately.

I bought my current canopy from a long-time regular poster who I'd never met, but with whom I have many mutual friends. He was willing to ship it to me (at my expense, of course) to demo, and trusted me to either send it back or pay up, depending on my decision (I ended up buying it). I would have been willing to pay some sort of deposit to demo it and/or have him send it to a third party, but he didn't ask me to do so. That was a cool, but not expected, benefit of the community that can be established here.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[likestojump 3]

it is irrelevant whose credibility is being questioned, as i believe any more information will skew the poll.

However, the current trend of "send it to my rigger" for EVERYTHING (when I put cypres in the poll option, I was not being sarcastic) - is driving me insane. I mean common ! A fucking cypres ? Get a picture with a serial number and call SSK - it either had the 4/8 year check or did not. Ask for a picture of the cables.

Why is it acceptable for the buyers to have the seller by the balls ? Or to eloquently put it, why are buyers encouraged to hold the sellers gear hostage ? In other words, look at this from a sellers perspective - just like the buyer wants guarantees that the gear will be as stated, shouldn't the seller want guarantees that the buyer will pay ?

Those are more or less just rhetorical questions, but it's bugging the hell out of me .... - thus the poll.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

I'd want it escrowed through a rigger I trust. This isn't a reflection on you, it's my lack of experience and trust in these transactions.

There should be a time frame specified, however.
Money sent, or canopy returned within 2 days of recipt.
Or am I being unreasonable?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[NWFlyer 2]

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shouldn't the seller want guarantees that the buyer will pay ?

Of course - and isn't that another one of the reasons we get a third party involved? From a seller's perspective, a rigger can act as an escrow agent of sorts and hold on to the gear until you get paid.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[likestojump 3]

to sum this up - While I understand that asking for blind trust is foolish, why is there so much blind distrust ? Both seems to be a bit extreme to me.

And trust me, I have bought and sold plenty both here and on other sites and in person to person selling environment.

[diablopilot 2]

I take it on a case by case basis, evaluating each "customer" of mine to determine how I want to handle the transaction. Most of the time I ship the item and the customer sends payment at the same time. Occasionally I have let the customer evaluate the item first, and once I used the "rigger" method.

Every used item I've bought I've sent the money and the seller has sent the item at the same time.

I haven't been burnt yet.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[mjosparky 3]

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it is irrelevant whose credibility is being questioned, as i believe any more information will skew the poll.

That depends on which side of the fence you happen to be on.

Buying and selling gear is something like being under 2,000 feet. You have no friends. You post here anonymously and yet you ask someone who has never met to trust you. NWFlyer figured out your motives for the poll and you took the ad down. How do you think this reflects on your creditability?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

• Quote

[likestojump 3]

Motives for the poll ? Are you kidding me ? I have a hidden agenda, right ?

Perhaps the ad that she linked to was for something that sold last night and subsequently I removed it ? BTW, the buyer and I had a mutual friend at the Norcal DZ who vouched for both of us.

Not here nor there, but MJO, your post STINKS ! You make assumptions about my intentions and reasons, and judge me based on that. The poll is meant to be neutral, and I did my best to present a situation without bias. I am not asking for creditability in the poll, just peoples opinion based on the situation presented.

You know, you sound like a grumpy old man (and I have no idea if you are), and you really pissed me off. No joke. Anybody who has ever done biz with me knows that I don't "hide" anonymously when selling.

Lastly, please tell me about the "motives" that I have ? I really want to know !

[ozzy13 0]

If I was buying I would want the seller to send product for inspection.

If I am seller I would want the money first!!!

I dont trust anyone from the internet when it comes to buying or selling

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[Renegate 0]

Trust is at the very center of Skydiving (here used as a general term not simply jumping out of airplane). You trust your rigger with your reserve, you trust your friend with a gear check on the ground and a pin check before you leave the plane, you trust the pilot with safely getting you to altitude, you trust your packer, you even trust manifest with putting you on the right load and more. What is the problem with blindly buying from someone who has a reputation, has references especially if the seller is a rigger? One can always ask for the USPA member number, call sellers/buyers DZ, ask around.

We are such a tightly knit community that we spread our news and gossip faster then OK Magazine. I do not see how one skydiver can cheat another and easily get away with it, but that is besides the point.

The point is you trust or you do not skydive.

- It's okay to be happy to see me. Just because you're English doesn't mean you need to hide your emotions.
- I'm Irish. We let people know how we feel. Now fuck off.

[taylor.freefall 0]

It depends on how the person is when I'm corresponding with them, you get a feel if they're genuine or not. Common sense really. I've bought and sold with people on dizzy and it's been fine and I've also dealt with a couple of people who I knew for a fact were trying to rip me off. Plus, coming on here I know who the regular people are and who are not.

[mjosparky 3]

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Not here nor there, but MJO, your post STINKS !

You know what they say about opinions and you are entitled to yours.

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You know, you sound like a grumpy old man (and I have no idea if you are), and you really pissed me off.

I am a "grumpy old man". And as for me pissing you off, trust me you are not the first and I am sure you won’t be the last.

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(and I have no idea if you are)

And I have no idea who you are. But it is evident that you checked my profile you will notice that it includes my name.

You are really thin skinned for a skydiver.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[likestojump 3]

I am not thin skinned at all, I just like to say it like it is. I believe thin skinned response would be to start calling you names or do the "you guys all suck, I am never posting to this site again"

Say if my profile had a name of "Nick Stasinki" - would that help you at all ? That would make it no more credible as you have no idea of the validity of the information.

Also, thanks for demonstrating my point, you really do read what's NOT WRITTEN. I never said I don't know who you are, I said that I don't know if you are a grumpy old man, yet you respond with "I don't know who you are either". It's absolutely IRRELEVANT for this poll. I do know however, when I tried to buy a rig from you 12/12/06 you sent me a copy of your USPA card and insisted that I send you a check and you won't ship the gear until it clears. You also did not care to use paypal. How about them apples ?

But tell me, what did you think my motives are (the ones that NWFlyer figured out) ? <---- 2nd request, don't be shy, backup what you say.

[Gato 0]

I'm still happy with my Digitude.
You did right by me, and I'll happily vouch for you any time!

T.I.N.S.

[Ghetto 0]

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How about them apples ?

Web Design
Cleveland Skydiving
"Hey, these cookies don't taste anything like girl scouts..."

[sovietskee 0]

When I bought my rig and first canopy (the sabre you bought off of me) I had my rigger inspect everything. If I were buying a rig or a reserve I would have it sent to my rigger. Main parachutes or aad I wouldn't, and haven't bothered. Plus the community is so small it seems that your always going to be maybe 1 step of separation away from the seller if your worried about someone's credibility.
The lady that sold me that Sabre 170 wasn't willing to let me come get the canopy to put a few jumps on it before I paid her; she was willing to ship it to my rigger who took responsibility for it and then I was able to put a few jumps on it.

[ozzy13 0]

Quote

Trust is at the very center of Skydiving (here used as a general term not simply jumping out of airplane). You trust your rigger with your reserve, you trust your friend with a gear check on the ground and a pin check before you leave the plane, you trust the pilot with safely getting you to altitude, you trust your packer, you even trust manifest with putting you on the right load and more. What is the problem with blindly buying from someone who has a reputation, has references especially if the seller is a rigger? One can always ask for the USPA member number, call sellers/buyers DZ, ask around.

We are such a tightly knit community that we spread our news and gossip faster then OK Magazine. I do not see how one skydiver can cheat another and easily get away with it, but that is besides the point.

The point is you trust or you do not skydive.

Sorry but FUCK that!!!
Yea I do trust my packer,rigger,pilot ect. When it comes to money I trust in the o mighty dollar. Sorry that how I feel about it

This guy sent me money grams. They looked real. When I called the bank, they were cashed already for different amounts. Glad I didn't send canopy first to him. Where would I be then. Your theory is nice but in this world FUCK THAT

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3404965;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread


Blue skies and trust nobody when it comes to money!!!

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[Renegate 0]

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Sorry but FUCK that!!!
Yea I do trust my packer,rigger,pilot ect. When it comes to money I trust in the o mighty dollar. Sorry that how I feel about it

This guy sent me money grams. They looked real. When I called the bank, they were cashed already for different amounts. Glad I didn't send canopy first to him. Where would I be then. Your theory is nice but in this world FUCK THAT

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3404965;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread


Blue skies and trust nobody when it comes to money!!!

There is a certain difference between an honest sale and an obvious scam. Common sense will help fish out 90% of fake stuff. The other 10% can be figured out with a little investigative work. However I was not referring to fakes and scams.
How many people with 500+ jumps, rigger certifications, well known at their DZs are know to have duped someone?

- It's okay to be happy to see me. Just because you're English doesn't mean you need to hide your emotions.
- I'm Irish. We let people know how we feel. Now fuck off.

[ozzy13 0]

Yea I hear ya. I rather be safe then sorry. Having no recourse in getting my stuff back because its half way around the world.

Go on line and try to buy something and tell that person/store that you will send the money after you try it out a few times. It wont happen. ( Talking outside of skydiving). You need to fill out a credit app before that happens.
Well why should this be any different?

Yes we are all skydivers but there are scumbags out there on this site trying to make a fast buck.

Hey if you feel comfortable doing it that way go ahead. I don't and wont

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[hookitt 0]

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So, say you found a nice near mint (40 jumps) canopy in the classifieds at the price that you like. The seller is in the US, long registered account on dz.com with post history, and answers email well, as well as provides a phone number. The seller is also a rigger. How do you feel about the transaction ?

This question is actually quite easy to answer.

I'd feel just fine about it. I'd also ask for a DZ name so I could call for references if I felt so inclined.

Being a rigger usually means something but not always. For instance:I've recently run across a rig a master rigger worked on. Every bit of the work needs replacing.

That example is a bit extreme. For this transaction, however, I'd have no issue finding a way to make it happen. I've bought equipment and sold equipment from the classifieds and had no troubles at all.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Andy_Copland 0]

I dealt with you, worked out well.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[hookitt 0]

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I dealt with you, worked out well.

Yep, Me too and I didn't even know it. Just after my previous post, I realized out who likestojump is. I haven't paid much attention to this site lately.

Just so happens that he's a very reputable and fair seller.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Andy_Copland 0]

I've bought a couple of things and sold a couple of things from various people. I always go on reputation.

If its a friend of a friend, and they say they're good people then its good enough for me.

Edit: Except if its Ghetto.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi likes,

I've been selling some low dollar stuff on here recently.

If no profile, then the money comes to me upfront or forget it.

I will not deal with people who want to conceal their identity.

Just my opinion,

JerryBaumchen