Saber vs. Saber 2

[Megatron 0]

How big a difference is there between these two canopies, taking into account that most original Saber's you'll find will be much more worn than most used Saber 2's.

The reason I'm asking is because I'm on the market for a main and while I'd love to buy a brand new/moderately used Saber 2, its a stretch financially.

I've seen quite a few used Sabers around but most have upwards of 400 jumps and are substantially more worn. The good part is that they're substantially cheaper too!

I'm not looking for a high performance canopy by any means...just something to get me from 4000ft to 0ft and allow me to land on my own two feet (not my ass, not my face).

Being a ZP and therefore never becoming porous, would the original Saber still fly well enough and give me enough flare at a 1.3WL to give consistent landing that dont require a 5000 jump canopy ace to negotiate?
Is an older Saber 1 a piece of crap, is what I'm really asking.

[monkycndo 0]

I have and frequently jump a Sabre 170 ('94 w/ 600 jumps) and 150('93 w/ 200 jumps). I use it for WS. The Sabre is a good first canopy since they are a cheap and reliable canopy. The only thing the canopies share is the name. They are completely different wings.

Not sure I would recommend any canopy at 1.3 WL at your jump numbers.

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[Megatron 0]

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The only thing the canopies share is the name. They are completely different wings.

yeah, I meant to ask about that too...it seems to be so.

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Not sure I would recommend any canopy at 1.3 WL at your jump numbers.

I tend to agree, however, I wont be jumping this main until around march when my rig comes in...I should have a bit over a hundred plus a canopy course under my belt by then.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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The only thing the canopies share is the name. They are completely different wings.

yeah, I meant to ask about that too...it seems to be so.

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Not sure I would recommend any canopy at 1.3 WL at your jump numbers.

I tend to agree, however, I wont be jumping this main until around march when my rig comes in...I should have a bit over a hundred plus a canopy course under my belt by then.

Which is only a bit less than two hundred fewer than you should have.

[monkycndo 0]

A common rule of thumb is 1.0:1 until 100 jumps and then 0.1 additional WL per 100 jumps. Going to 1.3 at just over 100 jumps might not be the best decision. These older canopies hold their value well. I'd suggest going one size lager, get some experience on it with 100-200 jumps and resell it. The value won't go down much and you will have less chance breaking yourself under a lighter loaded canopy.

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[wildfan75 1]

I've got about 20 jumps on a Sabre2 and about 100 jumps on my current canopy, a Sabre.

These are my opinions and impressions with the two canopies:

The Sabre2 has a steeper glide path than the Sabre. It was one of the reasons I didn't like the Sabre2.

The Sabre2 has slow openings compared to my Sabre. Again, one of the reasons I didn't like the Sabre2. Some call the Sabre2 opening some of the sweetest you can get. I don't like the long snivels. When I toss I want to know in a relatively short amount of time that my canopy's going to open and sliders going to come down. That being said, when I got my Sabre this spring (which only had about 30 jumps on it!!) it was a little too brisk. I put a pocket on the slider and have had great openings. Actually, they are starting to get a little on the slow side (I chalk it off to some nice desert sand on a trip to Perris).

I love my Sabre almost as much as I loved my Silhouettes, and boy...did I LOVE my Silhouettes!

[Chubba 0]

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Some call the Sabre2 opening some of the sweetest you can get. I don't like the long snivels. When I toss I want to know in a relatively short amount of time that my canopy's going to open and sliders going to come down.

I love it I'm getting ~700-800ft openings on my Sabre2, I just sit there staring at the snivel for a few seconds before it usually goes offheading

[sovietskee 0]

the Sabre 1 isn't very forgiving of sloppy packing, and it still will open more briskly than the stuff that you're probably used to. I've actually come to appreciate the brisk openings. It's nice being able to pull at 2500 and be open well above 2000. I bought a Sabre 170 at about a 1.15 wl at 80 jumps. I put a little over 100 jumps on it and sold it for exactly what I paid for it, and have replaced it with a Sabre 150. I personally have no complaints about the Sabre; It will get you back from a long spot, has a powerful flare, and its dirt cheap(which is a huge plus for me).

edit: if its going to be your first canopy it probably won't be very long before your looking for your next canopy. Older parachutes don't seem to lose their value nearly as much as newer ones(look at how cars lose value) so that may be another thing to look at if you don't have much money. The best idea would be to put a few jumps on one before you make a decision

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Some call the Sabre2 opening some of the sweetest you can get. I don't like the long snivels. When I toss I want to know in a relatively short amount of time that my canopy's going to open and sliders going to come down.

I love it I'm getting ~700-800ft openings on my Sabre2, I just sit there staring at the snivel for a few seconds before it usually goes offheading

I though the Stiletto opened nice, that PD went too far with the Spectre snivel, and haven't tried a Sabre2.

Canopies like the Samurai demonstrate that you can build a canopy which opens both softly and in a relatively reasonable altitude.

[Megatron 0]

thanks for the replies...personally I think I'd rather opt for a more brisk opening than a soft long one. As someone said, I wanna know asap that my gear is going to function properly. Being less forgiving to sloppy packing can be an issue (because I suck at packing) but all the more reason to improve. Glad to know a saber is worth getting.

[faulknerwn 36]

Its all in preference - I actually prefer the Sabre 1 over the Sabre 2s...

But definitely get a bigger size - 1.3 will be way too small for you at this point.

[monkycndo 0]

Depending on how I pack my Sabres, I can get a 800 snivel or a 400-500 brisk opening. Both have the stock slider.

YMMV

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[Blink 0]

So the next question is, have you already ordered your container sized for this main?

[sovietskee 0]

i think an 800 foot snivel on a sabre would scare me. The only time I've jumped something that wasn't a sabre since I had 80 jumps was sigma for an instructor that was working on his rating and I was genuinley nervous during the snivel because I have become so accustomed to brisk openings. Not that I would have anything against a snively canopy. I'd pull a bit higher though.

and Megatron its sabre not saber

[monkycndo 0]

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i think an 800 foot snivel on a sabre would scare me.

Vinnie borrowed my rig and packed it afterwards. I forgot he did and when I jumped it and it actually "sniveled" instead of the normal brisk opening, I looked up and though I had a mal. It is not very often that I actually see the slider still coming down the lines.

And that's the way I like it.

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[sovietskee 0]

haha yea. I had developed the habit of grabbing my rear risers as soon as I got stood up on deployment; after I started jumping the sabre every so often I would land and one of my hands would be all bloody and I couldn't figure out why.

[Joellercoaster 6]

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Canopies like the Samurai demonstrate that you can build a canopy which opens both softly and in a relatively reasonable altitude.

Been thinking the same thing about the Vision.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[tkhayes 123]

Sabre 1 was a great canopy but it opened hard (at least every so often). PD never really acknowledged the issue, but I had 2000 jumps on various sizes and every so often, no matter what you did, that thing will rock you.

Sabre 2 they supposedly fixed it, but it is really a different parachute altogether. I hear they still have opening issues from time to time.

Hard openings will add up. take that advice from a bug guy, 48 years old with 7000 jumps (and 2000 on Sabres)

It hurts to get out of bed in the morning.

1. Find a parachute that you like, not by brand name, but by test jumping lots of canopies.
2. FORGET the ones that opened hard, even if they only do it some of the time - it will start to hurt
3. learn to enjoy 800' openings and soft and smooth - especially if you want to still be jumping in 20 years.
4. don't chase the trend, think of what YOU really want to fly every day, and if you cannot put your canopy down on ANY jump in an unusual situation (off DZ, congestion, long spot, etc), they you need to re-evaluate what is over your head)

I bought a Spectre with Dacron lines.... like a jolly jumper on opening. I still load it at 1.6 to one and it flies and lands great. I can put it down anywhere and invariably, I will land on the DZ (almost) every time. If I am landing out, I don't care, because I know that I can put that thing down without incident anywhere.

TK
(achy older fart)

[virgin-burner 1]

mine has about 900 jumps on it and is from '93. i think it flies like a charm! and still looks good, except some seams on the slider that are about to go off.

oh, and you will become a pretty concious packer. as someone pointed out, it does not like a sloppy packing. it will bite you if you dont treat it careful..

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-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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I'm not looking for a high performance canopy by any means...just something to get me from 4000ft to 0ft and allow me to land on my own two feet (not my ass, not my face).

Being a ZP and therefore never becoming porous, would the original Saber still fly well enough and give me enough flare at a 1.3WL to give consistent landing that dont require a 5000 jump canopy ace to negotiate?

At 69 jumps, you should by all means consider a Sabre loaded at 1.3 a "high performance canopy".

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Is an older Saber 1 a piece of crap, is what I'm really asking.

No. Not necessarily, anyway. I've put more than 800 jumps on mine and it still opens great. It looks good too. I'm a neat packer though, and I pack for myself 99% of the time.

[sparkie 0]

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thanks for the replies...personally I think I'd rather opt for a more brisk opening than a soft long one. As someone said, I wanna know asap that my gear is going to function properly. Being less forgiving to sloppy packing can be an issue (because I suck at packing) but all the more reason to improve. Glad to know a saber is worth getting.

I wouldnt call the s2 an extreme snivler! 600 ft and im open. A pilot main, now thats a snivler.

Also the s1 is completely square, where the s2 is semi elliptical. Maybe the s1 will get boring fast? (well not if you load it at 1,3 with your jump # ;))

[sovietskee 0]

I was originally going to buy a pilot 168 for my beer canopy but what turned me off were the 800-1000 foot openings.

[Renegate 0]

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I was originally going to buy a pilot 168 for my beer canopy but what turned me off were the 800-1000 foot openings.

Don't see what the big deal is with 800-1000 foot openings if you throw by 4000.

I demoed Sabre 2 (150) and rented Sabre 1 (170 i think). I prefer Sabre 2, softer openings, beautiful flares.

- It's okay to be happy to see me. Just because you're English doesn't mean you need to hide your emotions.
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[sovietskee 0]

You can't always pull as high as you plan to; what if break off goes to shit and there's someone above you, or you go up for a cloud ceiling load and the ceiling is lower than expected, or an airplane emergency at 2k? There's a lot of RW people out there that never break off above 4000. I pull somewhere in between 2.5 and 3 on freefall jumps, If I had a pilot it'd probably be between 3 and 3.5. Ideal would be 5-700 foot snivel, soft and not too much wasted altitude. The 50 or so jumps I put on a pilot my average opening was close to 1000 feet. Thats too much.

[Chubba 0]

I throw @ 4000ft with my Sabre2.

It really is a pain in the ass getting everyone that dumps at 2500ft to bump there breakoff up to 5000ft+, I feel like the party police.