0
graymadder

questions about a used reserve

Recommended Posts

Quote



1. is a reserve with 3 rides worth much less than a reserve with 1 ride?



No. Most of the wear on a reserve comes from the pack jobs. If you accept PD's numbers each pack job does 60% of the wear that comes from a deployment.

Quote


2. at what point do you consider a reserve 'spent,' or 'used up?' (i.e. worth replacing)



PD reserves need to be sent back to the factory for inspection after 40 repacks or 25 uses. For contemporary skydiving wingloadings that's probably a good idea. At under a pound per square foot I wouldn't worry if the manufacturer didn't make it mandatory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I didn't check PD figures about the wear on a reserve



PDs aren't legal after 25 uses or 40 pack jobs until they go back to the factory for inspection. Given the results of the German (or Austrian? my memory is bad) military study on packing wear that's probably reasonable.

Quote


but what about a F 111 canopy with 500 jumps which have been repacked 300 times ?



They're not certified to survive openings at up to 150 knots, open in 3 seconds, or have a reasonable descent rate even with the brakes stowed and a suspended weight 50-100% beyond where people usually load F111 canopies. No one packs one carefully redressing the folds and clamping everything together.

Having seen one reserve separate into 2 and 5 cell pieces (people being unconscious and head-down when their Cypres fires isn't good for opening speeds) held together by the single reinforcing tape at the tail following a cypres fire, ten second reserve rides, and plenty of decent landings at 1.5 - 1.8 pounds per square foot I'd say that there are good reasons for TSO-C23 and standards higher than are applied to main canopies.

I've also seen video of other interesting situations, like the year I was at Quincy when some schmuck flew through a guy''s canopy and ripped out a cell at 800 feet. He cutaway, dumped his reserve, and landed fine which he wouldn't have under a ragged out F111 main with a sail slider.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I didn't check PD figures about the wear on a reserve but what about a F 111 canopy with 500 jumps which have been repacked 300 times ?



At the risk of sounding stupid, how can a canopy have 500 jumps, but only 300 repacks?
Fortunately, I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber.
--- The Dude ---

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Zero deployments means that the reserve is un-tested ... 99% chance it will deploy when needed ... but still un-tested.

1 to 3 rides is normal for a second-hand reserve.

If the reserve has more than 5 deployments, I wonder how sloppily the previous owner packed his main???
If he packed his main that sloppily, how well did he take care of the rest of his gear???

Various manufacturers and national agencies put different limits on reserve life.

Performance Designs says that after one of their reserves had more than 25 deployments or 40 pack jobs, it should return to the factory for inspection.

Similarly, Strong says that their tandem reserves must return for factory inspections after 8, 13 and 18 years. After 20 deployments or 22 years, Strong tandem reserves are retired.

National Parachute Industries says not to repack their reserves more than twenty years old. Hint, National quit making square reserves about twenty years ago and most of their round reserves - more than twenty years old - were grounded (at least temporarily) because of acid mesh.

GQ Security says not to pack any of their reserves more than 13 years old.

Various European governments set ten or 13 year lives on skydiving gear.

The other factor limiting reserve "life" is technological development. For example, Raven reserves were designed more than twenty years ago, when hardly anyone loaded main canopies at one pound, but in this century, several stupid, fat, white men decided it was okay to load Micro-Ravens at 1.8 pounds per square foot and wondered why they flared like bag-locks????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
> is a reserve with 3 rides worth much less than a reserve with 1 ride?

Naah.

>at what point do you consider a reserve 'spent,' or 'used up?' (i.e. worth
>replacing)

When:

1) it is near its inspection limit (i.e. 40 pack jobs for a PD reserve.) PD will inspect it and likely OK it for another repacks, but it's usually not another 40 repacks.

2) it has been exposed to something that may cause it damage (like mildew or acids.) Some acids do not cause damage until the canopy sees water, at which point the acid is 'activated.'

3) it is so old that few riggers have seen them and/or it's questionable when it comes to container compatibility. Makes them harder to get repacked. A Hobbit might fall under this category. IIRC it had an unusual tailpocket deployment system.

4) it is a design that is so out of date that people no longer know how to land them (like the smaller Ravens.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote



1. is a reserve with 3 rides worth much less than a reserve with 1 ride?



Many sellers will tell you that it is not worth less. But when you are selling it, many buyers will think that it's worth less or may not want it at all. I am a big fan of not swimming against the current, so my answer is "yes, the amount of rides lowers the value". I may not agree with the reasons, but the market speaks for itself.

Quote


2. at what point do you consider a reserve 'spent,' or 'used up?' (i.e. worth replacing)


see others replies, this one is pretty clear cut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"3) it is so old that few riggers have seen them and/or it's questionable when it comes to container compatibility. Makes them harder to get repacked. A Hobbit might fall under this category. IIRC it had an unusual tailpocket deployment system."

........................................................................

The type 4 (full-stow) deployment diaper on some Hobbit reserves made perfect sense to old-school riggers who had already packed a million round reserves.

Hint: manufacturers started sewing type 2 diapers (2 rubber bands) onto round reserves in the mid-1960s. By the early 1980s' all round reserve came standard with type 3 or type 4 diapers.

The primary reason that early Hobbits had diapers was so they could be easily installed in older skydiving containers, without the hassle of finding free-bags. This was part of the rush away from round reserves after a bunch of round reserves were grounded by acidic mesh starting in 1986.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"3) it is so old that few riggers have seen them and/or it's questionable when it comes to container compatibility. Makes them harder to get repacked. A Hobbit might fall under this category. IIRC it had an unusual tailpocket deployment system."

........................................................................

The type 4 (full-stow) deployment diaper on some Hobbit reserves made perfect sense to old-school riggers who had already packed a million round reserves.
GQ Security X-210R reserves are the only other ram-air reserves I have packed with type 4 diapers. Hint: GQ Security closed their American factory in 1984.

Hint: manufacturers started sewing type 2 diapers (2 rubber bands) onto round reserves in the mid-1960s. By the early 1980s' all round reserve came standard with type 3 or type 4 diapers.

The primary reason that early Hobbits had diapers was so they could be easily installed in older skydiving containers, without the hassle of finding free-bags. This was part of the rush away from round reserves after a bunch of round reserves were grounded by acidic mesh starting in 1986.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0