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CrazyL

Should people be banned for doing hookturns in certain places?

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>This thread was intended to be about exactly what the title said.

Your first post discussed all your bannings and did not have a single comment about banning hook turns altogether.

Again, no problem at all if you want to talk about that. But it's unfair to other posters to use a misleading title to get them to read a thread. It would be like titling a thread "Katanas banned at Perris!" and then writing a thread about how Dan won't let someone jump a Katana 107 because of their lower experience.

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Thank you for a great perspective, well worded unlike the title I had on this thread. I'll share with another fact of the fatality that day. So, he was married, 2 kids, wife, retired marine, policeman, an all around badass, much respect. He had 2 identical rigs with 1 out of 3 backup devices on his rigs. He had reserves, no rsl, no aad. I ask myself why. I also believe a silver D handle would've prevented him from bouncing and me being banned.




Why dont you suck it up a accept the fact that you fucked up and got yourself banned, they made many accouncements to the DZ to stay away from the swoop area and to land in the main landing area but you disregarded that all and swooped the dead guy.... You claimed it was to pay respect but it wasnt, its clear the way you talk here that you didnt respect him you landed there against the DZ announcements because you wanted to swoop, thats it nothing more now youre in here stirring up shit trying to make them sound like the big bad DZ.... Youre a grown man for gods sake, you fucked up and got banned... own it.

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Larry, this is the second time in these forums you have decided to bash John. He won't return your e-mails or phone calls? Then do as I suggested last time and go out to the dropzone and talk to him. What do really hope to accomplish by trash talking him on an internet forum? Are you looking for support with your version of the events of that day and the three weeks prior? At least the last time you did this the mods took your posts down, I hope they do it this time as well. I really do not appreciate going on line here and reading all the shit you are writing about my friend.
Again, is there a point behind what you are writing or are acting out of spite?
John

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Larry, this is the second time in these forums you have decided to bash John. He won't return your e-mails or phone calls? Then do as I suggested last time and go out to the dropzone and talk to him. What do really hope to accomplish by trash talking him on an internet forum? Are you looking for support with your version of the events of that day and the three weeks prior? At least the last time you did this the mods took your posts down, I hope they do it this time as well. I really do not appreciate going on line here and reading all the shit you are writing about my friend.
Again, is there a point behind what you are writing or are acting out of spite?
John



Oh I hope the mods keep this thread up, it's been very entertaining.
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

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Thank you for a great perspective, well worded unlike the title I had on this thread. I'll share with another fact of the fatality that day. So, he was married, 2 kids, wife, retired marine, policeman, an all around badass, much respect. He had 2 identical rigs with 1 out of 3 backup devices on his rigs. He had reserves, no rsl, no aad. I ask myself why. I also believe a silver D handle would've prevented him from bouncing and me being banned. It's all upsetting to say the least.



Wow... I dont know you that well and I sure didnt know shindig that well but it sounds like your being the prick here, calling a dead guy a prick because you fucked up?

Why dont you suck it up a accept the fact that you fucked up and got yourself banned, they made many accouncements to the DZ to stay away from the swoop area and to land in the main landing area but you disregarded that all and swooped the dead guy.... You claimed it was to pay respect but it wasnt, its clear the way you talk here that you didnt respect him you landed there against the DZ announcements because you wanted to swoop, thats it nothing more now youre in here stirring up shit trying to make them sound like the big bad DZ.... Youre a grown man for gods sake, you fucked up and got banned... own it.

My apologies, it's all upsetting to say the least. I have owned up to my mistake and have come to terms with not jumping there for a very long time. It's been over 90 days and i'm still upset about shindig and the trauma it created for me. I did admire shindig. That's another reason it's so dang upsetting. His death has been the most traumatic for me, sorry. It really screwed with me. And yes, if I get upset and say something I really did'nt mean, then I am the prick here. I'll take it. Again, my apologies.

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Larry, this is the second time in these forums you have decided to bash John. He won't return your e-mails or phone calls? Then do as I suggested last time and go out to the dropzone and talk to him. What do really hope to accomplish by trash talking him on an internet forum? Are you looking for support with your version of the events of that day and the three weeks prior? At least the last time you did this the mods took your posts down, I hope they do it this time as well. I really do not appreciate going on line here and reading all the shit you are writing about my friend.
Again, is there a point behind what you are writing or are acting out of spite?
John

More like post traumatic stress. I would've liked to visit with John several weeks ago. I gave up after 90 days. I give up easy. I did'nt see or hear your suggestion to drive out there to visit him prior to this post, my bad. Cell phones and email save alot of time and gas. Technology is wonderful. When Hammo and I were on the phone that day we were both professionals. No real sarcasm, no belligerence or back talk. When he called me I figured he had his hands full and did'nt need any of my crap. I thought, why is'nt he dealing with shindig at the moment instead of me, I answered his questions honestly and to the point. He did'nt want to believe me. Why could'nt he postpone his call to me till after he took care of shindig. I messed up by not hearing the calls about landing near the crime scene prior to sending the 1st load after shindig went in if they really did make the announcement. I would have abided. I had left the dz to get food then I got a cell call that I was on a 15 minute call. I hauled ass to the dz, got my gear on and boarded the airplane quickly. I would'nt have heard an announcement unless it was done in the 2-3 minutes prior to boarding. Sorry. The point in this thread is that you and the rest of the posters here are helping me recover. Good post or bad. Not looking to have any change in Hammo's decision. I started this thread because right now I have time to post here. Did'nt start it and leave. I'm here sitting in for a little while longer, owning up to what I started. Soon I will have less time to once again to be a visitor here. Soon enough this thread will be done. You wo'nt have to read my post for a while, i'll be out for a while. Maybe my next thread will be more constructive and positive for skydivers. There are many topics other than this b.s. to learn about in these forums. And by the way Lake Elsinore has a bad ass dz. You won't see me there for a very long time.

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Being that the dz Skydive Elsinore is a public place, it'd be hard pressed to be banned from the property.



Sorry Larry, Ellsinore is private property and a commercial business. The property owner, the business owner or the manager can ban anyone for any reason.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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Being that the dz Skydive Elsinore is a public place, it'd be hard pressed to be banned from the property.



Sorry Larry, Ellsinore is private property and a commercial business. The property owner, the business owner or the manager can ban anyone for any reason.

Sparky

all the same. I have, no need to go back there. I left there with all my equipment. My account is cleared. Niether of us owes money. I've come to terms with not going back there now. I've been to over 50 dz's. Been banned from more dz's than some jumpers have visited. Skydiving has now become lower on the list of ways to spend the rest of my time here on this planet. That day changed it for me totally. When the addiction to go skydive gets to me, i'll get mine no doubt. I have my doubts the addiction to skydive will rule my life like it has for several years up until that day.

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Larry, if airing your dirty laundry on the internet is your attempt at recovery, I would suggest you find another way of reaching your goal. You are probably unaware that when you made the decision to swoop over the Officers and Shindig's body, announcement or no announcement it was a poor decision, one of the Officers said to John "can't you control your skydivers?" John had no choice but to confront you on it. Obviously only you and he know the details of that conversation but it did apparantly end with you no longer being welcome there.
As far as other comments you have made here, do you really believe Shindig's wife's tandem on the ash jump was BS? I don't think she shares your feelings on that. That was her first jump and her comment back on the ground was that she now understands Rick's love of skydiving. You make mention of John's heart attack and divorce, his divorce was years ago, Larry. John has been in a good, commited relationship for the last few years so I don't see how his divorce had anything to do with that day. And your comment of John and his cronnies dressed for a laua party at Rick's ash dive / memorial? Are you being for real? Most everyone, myself included, were dressed casually. I don't think there was any disrespect being shown. In fact, every Officer and Marine I spoke with were all moved by the memorial.
John does not come onto this website and is unaware of the attacks you've made on him and is therefore not in a position to defend himself or rebut your statements, but, and this is the important part, he shouldn't have to. This is an internet forum you have chosen to do this in and John would not come down to this level you have decided to play on.
Larry, I suggest you back away from the keyboard for a while and think this all the way through.

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More like post traumatic stress.



Larry, I think in time you will be able to deal with Shindig's death better. We all miss him and have compassion for his wife and kids.
Take the time you need more surfing more whatever. I think Hammo will let you back at the DZ soon.

Think of all the fun times you've had. Remember your 4000th jump?
That was the funniest thing I've seen.

Here's the story.
Larry was the vidiot for a team coached by Chris Irwin. They had a pass at 10.5 and were sitting by the door. When Larry got on the plane he proudly told everyone that it was his 4000th. We asked 'Hey aren't you going to do anything special for it?' He said, 'just another team jump'. Kudos were given to Larry all the way up to 10.5. On jumprun, Larry climbs out as usual. The team lines up and does its exit count. Only what they did not do, was jump. They faked Larry into committing to his exit. They climbed back in and waved to Larry on his now 'special' 4000th jump. The plane was full of laughter all the way to 12.5. The team even went all the way up to altitude.
Larry stayed in the grass and started packing. The entire plane load came over to congratulate him on his 4000th jump.
Times like those are what you need to remember now.

Have fun surfing today.

.
.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

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Crazyl, I did read all your posts on Shindigs death and got the feeling you were pretty wrapped up in it and I hope venting here may do some good, I normally dont get involved in this stuff on here but something in your post struck a nerve. I hope you can rise above and get through it all and who knows maybe someday we will see that big smile back at Elsinore. B|

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talk about nerve stricken. I apologize to all whom have delt with me venting here. Wrong place for me to do such things. Had a bomber day coping with my dead friends. Especially the latest one. I just think he'd be a superdad to his kids. I broke down and even became angry. sorry. Venting here has helped. Don't intend on venting here again. Signing off for a while, no hookturns and no posting for a while. Larry

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Condolences on having to grieve for dead friends. That always sucks.

On being banned from so many places; it reminds me of one of my favorites from Demotivators:

"The common element in all your dysfunctional relationships is you."

Very little chance that someone banned so often has not been the outright cause of said bannings.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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The way i see it any licenced skydiver has been warned about the dangers of making low turns close to the ground. Apparantly they are the biggest killer of skydivers. Im not into low hook turns. You obviously love them mate and the fact that you have survived over 6000 jumps proves that u know what u are doing. I say that as long as you dont endanger other jumpers you go right ahead and do your hook turns. You know the dangers and you are happy to take that risk then good luck to you.



The "if you have done it a 1000 times and not killed anyone or yourself, then you are fine" thing doesn't work too well. As with anything we do, it's a matter of time before we die in this sport, but hook turns speed that process up quite a bit and include other jumpers in it which in a drop zones mind is a no no.
Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

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