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AirWhore

Will riggers raise thier prices on reserve repacks?

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Doctors have less responsabilities than riggers and their insurance company or association have very good lawyers and a lot of money in case you want to sue them.



As both a rigger and a doctor, this has to be one of the funniest things I have read in a very very very long time.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

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I'm with you Steve. Fuck em if they don't like the life saving service that we happily perform for them. For very little (if any) utility to us. Please, please, please if you are uncomfortable with the job your rigger does, or the price he or she charges, go seek out another rigger. Go to discountrigging.com.
It seems to me that seeking out the lowest price rigger is in any skydiver's best interest. :SOf course, when said skydiver comes to me I will charge properly to fix all of the issues that are wrong with their rig that discountrigging.com missed.

I will never recoup the cost of my rigging tools, sewing machines, trips to the symposium, and recurrent training by doing repacks for the masses. And I used to be a full time rigger at several major dzs.
And if you happen to come upon my loft now, I will explane to you what a dickhead you are being in regards to riggers. And then send you on your way.

Assholes get the same I&R as everone else. Most riggers have no deviation in their program. BUT karma will catch up to the shithead that gets pissy with their rigger.

“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!”

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Funny but the reality. As a doctor you know you have a good protection (insurance and association) and you pay a lot for it. As a rigger your protection is weak. Another reality is that the pilots are underpaid too. One is used to see them as people who are in love with what they do then think they don't have to paid too much or not at all. Forget conventions and habits and take an absolute look about what a rigger does and think about it. Think also about why as a doctor you are soo well paid with respect to other persons having a Ph D. If you would be a doctor in Sweden for instance, it would be quite different. Really, if a reserve packing is not worth the cost of 3 jumps, well riggers are not well treated. I know there is a question of demand and offer. OTOH packing a reserve is packing a reserve, whatever the number of jumps which has been made on the rig, 3 or 1000, the packing and responsibilities are still the same. Imagine the riggers having a union and decide to go in strike...
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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:D:D:D
All you people who jump up on your soap boxes
no one has mentioned ANYTHING about looking for cheaper or discount riggers.
This whole thread is about RAISING prices for nothing more than a change in frequency
and then all these people stand up and say how much work that do for no reward, you should all be Knighted:)

Good to see altruism is alive and well:D:D:D:D
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Jerry, I know a ripcord has to be TSOed when made by a rigger or a company. I know most of the riggers don't have the equipment to make rip cord but that can change if the steel cable is going to be replaced by a 1000 lbs Spectra line by the FAA since swaging ball and pin could be replaced by finger trapping and bar tacking.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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Bill that's a red herring argument and you know it. The very first thing that the FAA asks after a fatality is "who was the rigger?" That makes the rigger the defacto person of contention.
I hate to say this in a public forum but riggers are the easiest people to hang out to dry, leagaly, in any court case. But then again, if some of us get screwed by the courts, the rest of us will just quit rigging. OR we'll charge enough to cover legal bills. You want to pay my malpractice insurance via repacks? Cuz I'll charge you for it. I should already cuz my name is all over your rig already. And when you go in they'll come to me first.
I have no control what a jumper does with his or her rig after it leaves my loft. Yet still they'll pound in on occasion.

So as Steve alluded to earlier please go get your ticket if you are disgruntled with riggers. Certainly you will do a mutch better job for yourself than those of us that have dedicated our time to try to make sure that you don't kill yourself because of equipment failure. Isn't it strange that we rarely have a fatality due to rigging these days? It's cuz those of us dedicated riggers police ourselves way better than any other segment of the skydiving community.
When's the last time that you heard of a rigger hooking it in? When's the last time you heard of a canopy pilot pounding it in after they took a canopy course? You want to police something? Look over there.
Eat Dirt.
Aaron
“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!”

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No cause for panic. This forum is to exchange each other views about a subject.
Lets put it that way ; you have a family and you want to make a living as a full time rigger independent from a DZ. You will have probably to buy or to rent a loft, to heat it, to pay for electricity. Make a business plan and go at the bank for a loan and you will see if the price you ask for a reserve packing is realistic. This is the real life.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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I currently pay $150/yr/rig for re-packs.

If my rigger wants to do fewer repacks per year and it doesn't change MY bottom line, then WTH? What's wrong with that?
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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I currently pay $150/yr/rig for re-packs.

If my rigger wants to do fewer repacks per year and it doesn't change MY bottom line, then WTH? What's wrong with that?


Nicely worded Andy, because the 180day is a MAX:ph34r:
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Bill that's a red herring argument and you know it. The very first thing that the FAA asks after a fatality is "who was the rigger?" That makes the rigger the defacto person of contention.
I hate to say this in a public forum but riggers are the easiest people to hang out to dry, leagaly, in any court case. But then again, if some of us get screwed by the courts, the rest of us will just quit rigging. OR we'll charge enough to cover legal bills. You want to pay my malpractice insurance via repacks? Cuz I'll charge you for it. I should already cuz my name is all over your rig already. And when you go in they'll come to me first.
I have no control what a jumper does with his or her rig after it leaves my loft. Yet still they'll pound in on occasion.

So as Steve alluded to earlier please go get your ticket if you are disgruntled with riggers. Certainly you will do a mutch better job for yourself than those of us that have dedicated our time to try to make sure that you don't kill yourself because of equipment failure. Isn't it strange that we rarely have a fatality due to rigging these days? It's cuz those of us dedicated riggers police ourselves way better than any other segment of the skydiving community.
When's the last time that you heard of a rigger hooking it in? When's the last time you heard of a canopy pilot pounding it in after they took a canopy course? You want to police something? Look over there.
Eat Dirt.
Aaron



Once again I will say that this forum asked what WE thought . OP Since the reserve repack cycle is being raised to 180 days, an increase of 33%. Will riggers likewise increase their prices?Thoughts????? If you want to call people dickheads for stating what they think then I think you are the dickhead!!!


Do less and get paid more.yea that makes sence!!!


If the question was DUE to rising costs should they raise their prices? I would have said yes!!!!


What has changed since this change, besides the 60 days extra?

Do you have to do more work then before?

Does it take more time to do the job now then before?

If not I would love to hear the justification of the increase!!!
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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I hate to say this in a public forum but riggers are the easiest people to hang out to dry, leagaly, in any court case. But then again, if some of us get screwed by the courts, the rest of us will just quit rigging. OR we'll charge enough to cover legal bills.



How many riggers purchase Liability Insurance to cover themselves?

Do most riggers set up a REAL BUSINESS by estabilishing a L.L.C, INC. or sub"S" corp? By doing this you are able to create a corporate veil to help protect your assets.

When was the last time that any rigger lost a court judgement?

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With the 6 months repack cycle coming, 150$ a year means 75$/repack (for an average of 2 repacks) you are exactely at the figure I mentioned ie. the cost of 3 jumps (25$ /jump). Everything is alright as far as I am concerned.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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Hi Andre,

Quote

I know a ripcord has to be TSOed when made by a rigger or a company. I know most of the riggers don't have the equipment to make rip cord but that can change if the steel cable is going to be replaced by a 1000 lbs Spectra line by the FAA since swaging ball and pin could be replaced by finger trapping and bar tacking.



One more time: A rigger cannot make a reserve ripcord no matter what the material is. Only the TSO-authorization holder may make a reserve ripcord.

Now, with the possibility of a Spectre-line reserve ripcord, it 'might' be possible for a rigger to replace the line under his rigging license, but as a rigger I would not do so.

And I do know that there are quite a few riggers in the field currently making reserve ripcords; all of them illegal.

JerryBaumchen

PS) I hold a TSO-authorization for a ripcord; anyone wanting one can contact me. Shameless plug. B|

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>The very first thing that the FAA asks after a fatality is "who was the rigger?"

Correct. And if the rig was out of date they go after . . . the pilot. On every flight, the pilot is responsible for every single person in the plane. Many pilots thus are responsible for tens of thousands of people over the course of a year. Any one of them screws up and goes in with an out of date rig, he could lose his ticket.

And unlike riggers, often that means that a future (potentially lucrative) career is down the tubes.

But that has nothing to do with how much riggers (or pilots, or doctors) should get paid. They should get paid by how much people value their services, and by how little riggers are willing to charge for their work.

> But then again, if some of us get screwed by the courts, the rest of us
>will just quit rigging.

If it bothers you, then by all means, quit rigging and do something else. If you like rigging, and it's worth it to you, then by all means rig. Up to you.

>So as Steve alluded to earlier please go get your ticket if you
>are disgruntled with riggers.

?? I'm not disgruntled with riggers. (Or pilots, or doctors, or Crazy Larry, or Scott Miller.)

>When's the last time that you heard of a rigger hooking it in?

Crazy Larry has banged himself up pretty good on occasion.

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>$32.50 an hour (assuming 2 hours for an I/R) is not a good wage?
>If you can do it for 40 hours a week . . .

There's the rub. It's possible to do a repack in 2 hours. But add in shipping cypreses back to Airtec, emailing UPT with pictures of minor harness damage for their opinion (and waiting for their reply) replacing corroded reserve links, dropping off a rig with the guy that absolutely positively needs it this weekend, resetting a flap grommet, getting new cypres batteries and waiting for the PD143-in-a-PD126-container packjob to settle so you can close it - you can't really do 20 in a week.

Well, you probably could if you had someone to handle all the other stuff. But suddenly you're making half of what you used to.


You're being silly Bill the $32.50 ($65) is ONLY for an AIR, anything else is charged out accordingly ON TOP of the $32.50.
if you are going to argue the point at least do it honestly



+1
Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

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?? I'm not disgruntled with riggers. (Or pilots, or doctors, or Crazy Larry, or Scott Miller.)



How could anybody not be disgruntled with Crazy Larry?B|:D:D

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Crazy Larry has banged himself up pretty good on occasion



But not to bad!
Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

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I find it interesting (and not surprising) that most calling a price increase (for ANY reason) as improper are not riggers.

On average I spend ~2-3 hours performing the AIR on a rig. AND pay for rent/general materials / heat / transport (sometimes) without additional fee. I train / coach / inform / answer questions and hold seminars for rig owners. I read trade mags, DZ.com, owner manuals, FAA publications, etc to keep up. I fund my own way to PIA Symposiums and to various Master Rigger's locations for additional training, mentoring, consultation. I've paid for my own training, gear, machines etc. None of these charges are passed on. Its just "part of the business".

Give me a rig I've not seen before and I take 1.5 to 10 times as long with it, depending on how long it takes to get a manual, SB, etc.

NO good rigger gets paid what (s)he is worth... though some do manage to live on it. If this was just a job (and not a mental condition ;)) 90% of us would quit. Factor that into your "free market conditions" price...

No, I'm not going to raise my prices this year because of the rule change. Though I will spend more time than it is worth educating myself and my customers on something that cuts my business volume and yet for which I have always been in favor.

I AM going to raise my rates because I haven't in YEARS and now is as good a time as any.

If someone else wants to raise their rates because of the rule (or for any other reason) then that's fine too. If they raise too much for the market forces, they'll either lower them again or go out of business. Its called a free market folks, get over it.

Jim
"Part-time" rigger, full time professional who is more than willing to send you down the road to the next rigger... oh wait... he quit after 2 years when he realized how much work it was after all...

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

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Jim -
You said it very well here. And I second your statements. Please let me expound a bit further.
As a rigger that has been around, takes the time (and makes the expenditures) to be a well educated and caring rigger, I often feel that our services are under appreciated.
And I've bent over backwards so many times to help out a jumper in need of a rigger only to get no thanks from them. The feeling of under -appreciation gets to me sometimes. Just like this thread is doing to me right now.
So to all of those non-riggers that are strangers to me, that need me to replace a line by tomorrow, or need a repack cuz you hired the cheapest main packer that you could find, I say go buy your own bartacker(s). Go get your own ticket. If you are so willing to bitch about what I charge, please develop the skill set that it takes to do the work yourself. It ain't rocket science.
Either way the FAA will ask me to inspect your gear when you don't do some things right.
And oh yeah, riggers do hold FAA certificates. We are held to a legal standard that skydivers are not. Riggers take on a responsibility that joe skydiver hasn't. But you are welcome to........try.
Aaron
“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!”

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I not sure why all you riggers are getting upset. OP asked a simple question and people answered. Im not saying that you guys dont have a hard job. Im not saying that I got out of a jam once or twice because of a rigger.

Im saying that I dont think the prices should be raised based on doing the same job. Nothing has changed accept the time frame that you will be doing that same job.

I hope/know my rigger does a great job on my repacks. Thats why I use him.

To go into all the stuff you guys do as a rigger is silly. That has nothing to do with the OP. If you want to raise your prices go ahead. Dont sit here and cry on how hard you work and that you deserve more money. It sounds like if you wanted to make more money you should be doing something else!!! Blue skies;)

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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