Closing pin orientation

[JackC 0]

What's the thinking behind closing pin orientation? On my rig (Vortex II), the manual says right to left, smiling upwards but that puts the bridle attachment on the lower side of the pin (see photo). Now this seems a bit wrong to me because the bridle will pull on the lower side which makes it more difficult to stand the pin up before pulling it out. Does anyone know what the thinking is here?

[likestojump 3]

no idea what Vortex thinking is, but the whole idea behind the pin being CURVED is so it can be pulled in any direction.

[JackC 0]

It's not the curve I was thinking of, it was the side the bridle is attached to the pin. If I was designing it, I'd attach the bridle so it sits on the upper side of the hooped part of the pin not the lower, but I'm no rigger.

[pilotdave 0]

Does it matter? Won't it either slide to the upper part or pull the pin trying? The important thing is that the pin isn't oriented in a way that might cause it to either get pushed out of the closing loop by accident or get stuck on a flap or anything else. When the pilot chute applies 100 lbs of force to the end of that pin, I don't think it's original orientation is likely to matter very much at all.

Dave

[JackC 0]

You're probably right, I just wondered if there was a reason for it being the way it is.

[madhatter 0]

As the other replies have stated - the curved pin will still do it's job. If you stow the top part of the bridle to the top & right of the closing loop (under the right hand flap) as the manual states, the attachment to the bridle will be above the pin. QED - problem solved

A VERY MERRY UNBIRTHDAY TO YOU!!!
D.S # 125

[derrickiv 0]

Does that closing loop look a little long to anyone else?

[LloydDobbler 2]

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Does that closing loop look a little long to anyone else?

I assume you're referring to the flaps not lining up...?

In that case, it all depends on the rig. I'm not too familiar with the Vortex, but on some rigs - a Vector 3 or a V3 Micron, for instance - the grommets on the L & R flaps aren't supposed to line up.

On a Javelin, I believe it's different.

Like I said, not sure about a Vortex - just wanted to point that out, though, since I've heard some people recently who were under a different impression. Perhaps someone else will chime in who better knows that type of rig?

Signatures are the new black.

[JackC 0]

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As the other replies have stated - the curved pin will still do it's job. If you stow the top part of the bridle to the top & right of the closing loop (under the right hand flap) as the manual states, the attachment to the bridle will be above the pin. QED - problem solved

Unfortunately (fortunately?) you can't get it in any other way. The only way I could change it would be to unstitch the bridle, turn the pin around and then sew it back up again. Since I'm no rigger, I'll leave it alone. The only other alternative is to put a half twist in the bridle attachment point.

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Does that closing loop look a little long to anyone else?

If I shortened the closing loop, I wouldn't be able to close it at all. The Vortex manual shows the grommets not lining up and my rigger mentioned that they weren't supposed to so I'm happy that it's correct.

http://www.parachutesystemsusa.com/pdf/packingmanual.pdf

[JackC 0]

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Does it matter? Won't it either slide to the upper part or pull the pin trying? The important thing is that the pin isn't oriented in a way that might cause it to either get pushed out of the closing loop by accident or get stuck on a flap or anything else. When the pilot chute applies 100 lbs of force to the end of that pin, I don't think it's original orientation is likely to matter very much at all.

Dave

Thinking about it, yes I think it could matter. If the pin is pushed all the way home (this is advised against in the manual but not all packers know this) then the bridle pulls on the lower side of the pin hoop while the leg of the pin stops the pin rotating in the closing loop by pressing against the closing flap. This could try to invert the pin and possibly let it dig into the closing flap causing a pilot chute in tow. I'd rather avoid that if possible.

[hookitt 0]

Put your mind at ease. Lay the rig face down. Pull the bridle straight up and the pin will come right out.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[sparkie 0]

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Does it matter? Won't it either slide to the upper part or pull the pin trying? The important thing is that the pin isn't oriented in a way that might cause it to either get pushed out of the closing loop by accident or get stuck on a flap or anything else. When the pilot chute applies 100 lbs of force to the end of that pin, I don't think it's original orientation is likely to matter very much at all.

Dave

Thinking about it, yes I think it could matter. If the pin is pushed all the way home (this is advised against in the manual but not all packers know this) then the bridle pulls on the lower side of the pin hoop while the leg of the pin stops the pin rotating in the closing loop by pressing against the closing flap. This could try to invert the pin and possibly let it dig into the closing flap causing a pilot chute in tow. I'd rather avoid that if possible.

You CAN overthink some things. The pin will come out regardless of the way you orientate it. smiley up is mostly to prevent it coming out when you sit on the floor or someones foot in the plane.

[altichick 0]

As most of the posts have already explained it will come out which ever way the pin is orientated (provided of course that the bridal is routed correctly )

On my Vortex placing the pin right to left causes the edge of the pin to sit very close to the edge of the main flap which I don't like! So I put mine in left to right so that the pin is more likely to get pushed in rather than out if it was to get knocked.

Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things!

[Skydivesg 6]

This is my take.

I always put my pin in the closing loop from the bottom pushing up. This way when I sit in the plane my pin is less likely to get dislodged.

I have owned and used many rigs over the years and I have always used this method on all rigs with no problems.

I have also helped countless people re-close their rig while in the plane. This happens either because their pin was not oriented properly or (more often) because their closing loop was too loose.

My closing loop is so tight that I have to use a closing tool (Power tool) to close it. I can barely get it closed with a pull up cord, but it's just too hard so I use the tool.

Now I know that alot of people will say that the loop shouldn't be that tight. But check my numbers. I've been averaging 260-280 jumps a year for the last decade, with zero malfunctions (knock on wood) for more than 20 years.

Do what you can to keep your pin where it belongs until you decide to deploy it.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[BMFin 0]

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I always put my pin in the closing loop from the bottom pushing up. This way when I sit in the plane my pin is less likely to get dislodged.

How exactly does this reduce the possibility of the pin coming out ?

Isnt it actually more likely to fall off when you lean on a wall and the pressure of the flaps reduces creating slack in the closing loop tension and therefore the pin could fall off by the force of gravity ? (sure the scenario might actualize only if the tension is quite weak to start with..)

[Skydivesg 6]

The habit started "back in the day" when the pin protection on gear was less than desirable. Most of our flaps were held closed with velcro and the main pin flap would often times be ripped open while sitting down in the plane thus exposing the pin.

We learned that if the pin was pointing down or even sideways it could easily become dislodged from moving, shifting and sitting down. Of course we didn't keep our closing loops as tight as we do today because we didn't know we could.

My pin today would not come out due to gravity because I keep it very tight.

It simply is not going to fall out no matter how much I move, arch, d-arch stretch or shift unless it is pulled by the bridle or some very serious pressure put on it which can't happen without my knowing.
There is no slack in my closing loop. It wouldn't matter how much you pushed or pulled on my flaps, my main pin is not going to budge.

If you seriously think that there is any posibilty that gravity could cause your pin to fall out then you need to discuss it with a rigger or someone else you trust.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.