What to do in this situation??

[piratemike 0]

Quote

i probably shouldnt have jumped after seeing how far off the spot we were. but I was a bit angry the pilot wouldnt go around (they never go around)

so whats the correct way to address a situation like this? Dont jump if the pilot wont go around? or leave and pull higher?..... I wasent worried about landing out (done it a million times in my paraglider going cross country) just dont want to make the same mistake again.....
sorry for the novel any info would be great

Congrads on the 100th jump!

So, that DZ that your jumping at, the jump tickets are priced really low. It's the main attraction for that DZ.
Those jump tickets are so cheap, your pretty much getting subsidized jumps.
That dropzone has it's own way of doing things. It's not like other DZ's, you know this, I know this.
I still jump there periodically, and appreciate what I get there.

You know what your getting into when you jump there.

Now, you could ride the plane down. I always look down before jumping out there just because of the problem you encountered. You could have pulled at 8k, or 10k.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Quote

If the OP exited, pulled at 5 grand and still landed close to 3 miles out...what we have here is a failure to communicate!

I didn't gather that the spot was all THAT bad. He could have flown to a point much closer to the airport, but he wasn't sure that he could make it all the way across the vineyards. So he deliberately chose to stay far away to land in a safe field. A long walk is better than a broken leg, so that was a wise, conservative decision.

Agreed. I was going to give the OP props for doing exactly what he did (which is a lesson especially to low-timers): he picked out a safe LZ well in advance, didn't waste time or altitude making the decision, had the mature discipline to accept the need to land far away from the DZ; landed safely and unbroken; lived to blog about it.

[Broke 0]

You will never get a go around if you never ask for one

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[DON321 0]

im far from experienced in 101 jumps but i do feel im getting better with each jump,
fuel being the extra cost was the answer i got about not going around, you do get what you pay for $13 jumps to 13k out of a twin otter or king air im not going to complain or make a big deal about, I have the best instructor in the world who i look up to and respect has taught me well and answered every question with much detail. ive heard many times my dz is a place where you have to be more carefull and i am, this is why i made this post.. i read about all the mistakes so i dont repate them......

[jamiem 1]

Ugh I'm so tired of hearing how "unsafe" this dz is. It's as safe as you make it...same as EVERY OTHER dz. If I want to be unsafe at Davis or Monterey or anywhere else in California I can. If I want to be safe at those places, again, I can.

Tell me one thing that happens there that jeopardizes your safety that does not have to do with human error?

But back to the original post...

No go around because you pay for a plane ride, not a skydive. I actually talked about this exact issue with the dzo today because I was curious what his stand was on it and that was his answer. You're paying $13 to get to 13K and it's up to you to decide what you do when you get up there...jump or ride down.

[CrazyL 0]

Quote

It's as safe as you make it...same as EVERY OTHER dz. If I want to be unsafe at Davis or Monterey or anywhere else in California I can. If I want to be safe at those places, again, I can.

Tell me one thing that happens there that jeopardizes your safety that does not have to do with human error?

Quote

This goes for hookturns too right? It's as safe as you make it. Human error is usually the main cause of death in skydiving not hookturns.

• Quote

Share this post

---

Link to post

Share on other sites

[dancy 0]

I think you made good decisions. The area isn't extremely dangerous since you could easily find a safe alternate landing area. Riding up to 13k and not to jump can be very frustrating. On the other hand you realized well in time that it was a bad spot and opened higher than you normally would.
All in all - good job especially with 101 jumps.
Nevertheless it would be harder for me with the same jump number but no paragliding experience.

[DON321 0]

Quote

Ugh I'm so tired of hearing how "unsafe" this dz is. It's as safe as you make it...same as EVERY OTHER dz. If I want to be unsafe at Davis or Monterey or anywhere else in California I can. If I want to be safe at those places, again, I can.

Tell me one thing that happens there that jeopardizes your safety that does not have to do with human error

funny you say it that way, most skydiving deaths are human error with the ocasionall few heartattacks and unkowns
this dz DOESENT feel UNSAFE to me
i love this dz i can drive to byron in 40 mins instead of 1:45mins to lodi, but choose not to since i like that there arent many rules, i can jump with my friends who are still students not to many places you can do that, plus i get 5 jumps a day on the weekends minimum for $13 not complaining here, but there should be some kind of go around procedure to make it safer for the less experienced
(if my laddy would have been on that jump with me, shes only has 35 jumps and landing skills not the best things could have been very bad for her only reason why i started this post in the first place...)

[tetra316 0]

Quote

Ugh I'm so tired of hearing how "unsafe" this dz is.

Quote

That is not the point that is being made.

It's that Lodi has less 'rules' than most dzs. Meaning you can do things like lurking a tandem at lower jump numbers, non-instructors jumping with students etc. Some things allowed at Lodi would not be allowed elsewhwere in the name of safety. It does not mean that Lodi is unsafe for allowing them.

• Quote

Share this post

---

Link to post

Share on other sites

[jamiem 1]

Quote

this dz DOESENT feel UNSAFE to me
i love this dz i can drive to byron in 40 mins instead of 1:45mins to lodi, but choose not to since i like that there arent many rules, i can jump with my friends who are still students not to many places you can do that, plus i get 5 jumps a day on the weekends minimum for $13 not complaining here, but there should be some kind of go around procedure to make it safer for the less experienced
(if my laddy would have been on that jump with me, shes only has 35 jumps and landing skills not the best things could have been very bad for her only reason why i started this post in the first place...)

I think I misunderstood your post, but I do understand how a bad spot can effect someone with fewer jump numbers. That's why it's important to police yourself and your fellow jumpers. And I do feel that at Lodi there are a lot of jumpers looking out for each others backs...and since you mentioned your instructor called you the other day I'm guessing you know that too. I would say just make sure you educate your friend with 35 jumps on what to do if she was in that situation so that you can help her learn to make the right decisions that could one day save her life.

Quote

It's that Lodi has less 'rules' than most dzs. Meaning you can do things like lurking a tandem at lower jump numbers, non-instructors jumping with students etc. Some things allowed at Lodi would not be allowed elsewhwere in the name of safety. It does not mean that Lodi is unsafe for allowing them.

That is a perfect way of describing it. Lodi maybe does allow those things...I honestly don't know, but I make sure to stay within my limits. I guess it's just frustrating going to different dzs and getting the same negative response from jumpers when they hear what my home dz is.

[DSE 3]

Quote

I guess it's just frustrating going to different dzs and getting the same negative response from jumpers when they hear what my home dz is.

Screw em'. It's YOUR home DZ. It's no reflection on you if they have a negative opinion of a dropzone that they've likely either never been to, or don't understand.
Overall, I feel Lodi is a great place to skydive. One thing I'll tell you for sure...I've seen unsafe asshats at USPA dropzones get away with things that Bill won't tolerate for even one jump. Follow the few rules, and you're fine.
Were it truly an "unsafe DZ," there would be a lot more craters in the ground around the place, now wouldn't there?

[DON321 0]

Screw em'. It's YOUR home DZ. It's no reflection on you if they have a negative opinion of a dropzone that they've likely either never been to, or don't understand.
Overall, I feel Lodi is a great place to skydive. One thing I'll tell you for sure...I've seen unsafe asshats at USPA dropzones get away with things that Bill won't tolerate for even one jump. Follow the few rules, and you're fine.
Were it truly an "unsafe DZ," there would be a lot more craters in the ground around the place, now wouldn't there?

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Nevertheless it would be harder for me with the same jump number but no paragliding experience.

Unless I misunderstood the OP, the point of his PG experience being mentioned wasn't that it helped him fly better (though I'm sure it did), but that he didn't have the same fear of outlandings that many newer jumpers do. Which is exactly why he has received so many compliments from older jumpers here - to look for a safe LZ rather than just try get back home.

I do think though a big advantage of PG experience w.r.t. outlandings, is that you are really taught to gauge wind direction by looking at trees, water etc whereas for newer jumpers especially we are taught to look at the windsock, and wind direction can and does change from when you take off so just remembering which way the wind was doesn't always help.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[BMFin 0]

Let me tell you a similar story:

Empuria in 2007 and we were entering the skyvan they had acquired for the busy easter boogie. During the day people were landing off suprisigly often. The thing is in empuria that they fly the jumprun always northbound because the city is located on the southside of the airfield and this prevents people from ending up over the city. On the north side theres room for landing off and therefore ending up there is safer... So, as we entered the plane we asked the pilot if we could have two jumpruns. Immedietly the pilot answered no very stern and was not willing to discuss the matter any further. On the way up fellow jumper (very experienced 7000+ jumps) suggested it might be better to not jump this skyvan anymore since it might jeopardize our safety.

Later that day one Norvegian jumper got killed when he landed out, hit a tree and ruptured his aorta ! After that load the DZ didnt want to stop operation, but suprisingly none of the licenced jumpers no longer wanter to fly the skyvan so it was from thereon flying tandems only.

The next day the skyvan was not flying just two jumpruns but actually three jumpruns !!!

Its a shame it takes someone to loose their life for the DZ to realize the priorities, and that safety should come before business and its efficiency.

Who knows how long it takes for them to remeber this lesson ? Maby after time it will be forgotten and to fly 2 jumpruns are again being refused constantly..

[pilot-one 0]

***

That is a very disconcerting comment. Since when does unsafe mean craters in the ground?
If a jumper calls for a new jump run and doesn't get it the answer is to go to different dropzone. Period. It sounds like this dropzone isn't providing what's paid for. That's not just a ride to altitude but the opportunity to jump from a safe location near the dropzone. Hopefully if this dropzone doesn't provide that opportunity and a ride down is required that they refund your money.
You get what you pay for. Go figure.

[Fozz 0]

Don

I was there and went out and picked up 1 of the outs

Mitigating factors

1. It was the FIRST load for that pilot that day (99% sure of this)

2. He flew the same jump run as the other 2 pilots were flying all day (+/- 1/8 mile) (100% sure of this)

3. Uppers out of the North and Smoking fast (all Day)(100% sure of this)

4. You weren't the only group on that load to land out in fact I think 2 other groups(or possibly 3) landed North of the Airport and 1 group landed east of the Freeway "by a choice like yours."

The best way to handle it??
You know from Para gliding that every day is different. I wasn't in your shoes I tend to error on the conservative side.

When in Doubt ride the plane down or open high.(esp if you're last out) From mid fall to mid spring we are likely to have a jump run offset to the North, running East to West which puts you about 1 to 1.5 miles North and if the spot goes long you have to be prepared to pull high.

Have a contingency plan for this not uncommon situation
i.e if your drift isn't what the spot allowed for look down then at your jump buddy and point down and wave off and turn and track so you can pull a bit early with good separation TALK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY BEFORE HAND!!!

On this particular load I'd have to go with the uppers died down significantly which left many people short of the landing area. I think 14 of 21 made it back. You were very heads up and I'm glad you were not hurt

jf

John Fosgate
"In the end, its always best to choose the hard right over the easy wrong." LouDiamond
MB 4310
www.N3Racing.com

[DSE 3]

Quote

***

That is a very disconcerting comment. Since when does unsafe mean craters in the ground?
If a jumper calls for a new jump run and doesn't get it the answer is to go to different dropzone. Period. It sounds like this dropzone isn't providing what's paid for. That's not just a ride to altitude but the opportunity to jump from a safe location near the dropzone. Hopefully if this dropzone doesn't provide that opportunity and a ride down is required that they refund your money.
You get what you pay for. Go figure.

I have to disagree. If an EXPERIENCED jumper calls for a go-round or a 90, then that's different than a jumper with 100 jumps calling for it. Several variables may be taken into consideration.
A-Does everyone know what the winds are doing?
B-Did prior sticks hose the slot?
C-Was someone not suited up and ready, so the stick was late getting to/out the door?

Sometimes shit happens and you CAN'T make it back if this is rare and not the norm, it's not fair to say the DZ is unsafe, but rather that conditions prevailed and conspired to prevent landing on the DZ.
I've got quite a few jumps at the DZ in question; I've watched the owner and staff stand down due to wind. They were shut out all day this past Fri-Sat, and stopped operations early on Sunday as a result of wonky winds.
You get what you pay for, but at 13.00 a ticket, what you pay for also involves other jumpers getting out on time.
I do understand, it's easy to pick at a DZ at which you've never jumped, but this DZ is as safe as any, and safer than most, IMO.

[jamiem 1]

Quote

They were shut out all day this past Fri-Sat, and stopped operations early on Sunday as a result of wonky winds.

Tell me about it, my first three days off in 9 days and I couldn't jump!! If the winds are bad on Thursday I'm going to be in need of something else high adrenaline!

[Anta 0]

To be honest, at $13, whats the big deal in riding it down?

Damn, the jump price jealousy just hit me big time

[dancy 0]

Quote

On the way up fellow jumper (very experienced 7000+ jumps) suggested it might be better to not jump this skyvan anymore since it might jeopardize our safety.

This might be the attitude that makes you an experienced jumper with thousands of jumps...

[robblack31 0]

Lodi is a great place to jump. There are vineyard but plenty of outs as well if you are very aware.

1. You landed safely.
2. You didn't get kicked off the DZ.

I say job well done!