Cutaway #2 - Saftey Tip

[sraja 0]

I had my second cutaway today - after normal deployment at 3000 feet, I stowed my slider and was ready to unstow my toggles. At this point, as I was looking for traffic, I blindly reached for my toggles without looking for them. During the course of the opening some of the excess line stow around the left toggle had come loose and was flying around right in front of the toggle - as I reached for the toggle I must have slipped my fingers through the excess line stow and reached for the toggle. As a consequence, when I pulled the toggles loose, the left toggle formed a significant knot involving the brake line, risers and the toggle itself. This is very difficult to undo under canopy with the suspended weight of the jumper - it was pretty difficult to undo even on the ground after recovering the canopy. I cutaway at 1800 feet and was under a reserve by 1600 feet or so.

Tips and Lessons:
1. Look for your toggle when reaching them - the excess line stow might be flapping around
2. I learned a different technique to stow the excess lines - while absolutely nothing guarantees that they will not come undone in the future, the chances are reduced.

Especially if you have thin lines and wide excess stow area

[jimjumper 25]

I had a similar thing happen 2 months ago. The excess flopped around and when I pulled out the toggle it was tied in a knot around the stow loop. Pulling on it only made the knot tighter. I had a little bit of altitude so I played with it and decided to land it. I used the input of the left toggle and the right riser to flare! I got away with it but I wouldn't recommend it for novices.

[PhreeZone 14]

I've done it 2-3 times, mainly when I was rushing to pack the toggles in the field and mis-stowed the lines. I have landed them all by using both risers, you have to practice using the risers but once you do a few dozen times at altitude to can help you if you decide to land on the rear risers at some point. I would not recommend it to anyone with under 1-200 jumps but if you add tools to your bag of tricks it can only help you for instances where the toggle is not an option any more (broken line, knotted line, etc). It also give s you options if the reserve has an issue also, it shouldn't but you never know...

I would also encourage anyone that is not sure if they can land the canopy to chop it at sufficient altitude. There is nothing wrong with getting rid of a malfunctioned canopy.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[dragon2 0]

I managed to do that but got the knot around my wrist, kinda hurt from the tension and of course it was a borrowed canopy during a mega demo: 960 skydivers into Bangkok airport

Got triple riser and brakeline and my toggle flapping around and a cameraguy who was wondering why I wasn't flying the plan.

Since it was a spectre and it flew fine I grabbed the toggle in my hand in case the knot would come undone and I landed it like that, flaring with my arm out Landed out too of course because we got dropped too far and flying in full brakes to get back hurt and I'd lost too much alti trying to undo the damn knot. Couldn't get the knot free until after landing. Got my picture though

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[aresye 0]

Quote

I used the input of the left toggle and the right riser to flare!

You're obviously way more experienced than me, but I'm interested to know why you chose to flare with one toggle, and one riser?

I had a broken steering line on my 4th AFF jump, and I was able to land it with both rear risers. My instructors asked me if I used both risers, or the one toggle, one riser to flare. I told them I used both risers, and they told me I did the right thing, and to never try to flare with one toggle, and one riser. If I recall, I think the SIM says that as well.

Skydiving: You either learn from other's mistakes, or they'll learn from yours.

[dragon2 0]

That's not a quote from my post

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[d123 1]

I have the same problem on almost every dive. The excess line is fling around and I have pay attention how I grab the toggles.

Spectre 230 (a lot of excess line) Dolphin container with Mirage risers (my old risers were wear out so under my rigger recommendation I've bought Mirage).

The way I'm stowing the excess line is:
- Excess line goes through the lower tab located in the back of the risers.
- then it goes through the upper tab.
- then I roll it until is the same size as the upper tab.
- then I tuck the roll in the upper tab.
(See attachment)

Any suggestion on how to stow the excess line are more than welcomed!!!

Regards,
Jean-Arthur Deda.

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

[airtwardo 6]

Got my picture though

Quote

NICE!


~and kudos for the heads up handling of what could have been a dicey situation!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

I have the same problem on almost every dive. The excess line is fling around and I have pay attention how I grab the toggles.

Spectre 230 (a lot of excess line) Dolphin container with Mirage risers (my old risers were wear out so under my rigger recommendation I've bought Mirage).

The way I'm stowing the excess line is:
- Excess line goes through the lower tab located in the back of the risers.
- then it goes through the upper tab.
- then I roll it until is the same size as the upper tab.
- then I tuck the roll in the upper tab.
(See attachment)

Any suggestion on how to stow the excess line are more than welcomed!!!

Regards,
Jean-Arthur Deda.

Question~

The tabs you're referring to...do i understand correctly they are on the back side of the riser opposite from the toggle?
(as seems to show in your pic) ...and are they elastic type bands or nylon type 'loops'?


I just hooked up a new canopy myself and am not happy with the the 'factory' set up for stowing...which is several horizontal 'channels' behind the toggle that you're supposed to basically i guess, ' S ' the excess line into.

With a slow smooth brake release it seems to function okay, but a quick grab n' yank locks the mess up.

My old risers have a single long vertical channel right next to the toggle, (same side) and that seems to work well under all conditions, I may have to consider putting something like that on the new set-up...or as in your illustration on the back side.

Anybody else have any thoughts on better brake line stowage?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JohnDeere 0]

Get Vector risers with true lock toggles. Best stowing method ive seen. They also help prevent toggle fire.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[d123 1]

Quote

The tabs you're referring to...do i understand correctly they are on the back side of the riser opposite from the toggle?
(as seems to show in your pic) ...and are they elastic type bands or nylon type 'loops'?

Not elastic ... they're nylon type loops (if that's the right name). To use an analogy they are made with the same material as the front riser loops ... if that's helpful in anyway.

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

[CazmoDee 3]

I have Mirage risers as well. I just thread the excess brake line first through the top, then the bottom loop. It leaves about three inches extending bellow the bottom loop. Never had any problems.

In case it matters, I fly a Sabre2 170 in a Mirage G3.

I'm behind the bar at Sloppy Joe's....See ya in the Keys!

Muff 4313

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

I have Mirage risers as well. I just thread the excess brake line first through the top, then the bottom loop. It leaves about three inches extending bellow the bottom loop. Never had any problems.

In case it matters, I fly a Sabre2 170 in a Mirage G3.

Better pic thanks...I think I'll make something like that up for mine.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[d123 1]

In my case I got a lot more excess line. I can do 3 loops in the tabs with my excess line.

My rigger elongated the brake lines in the begging of the season.

Thanks anyway mate!
Jean-Arthur Deda.

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

[Gato 0]

Quote

after normal deployment at 3000 feet, I stowed my slider and was ready to unstow my toggles

Shouldn't those two things be reversed in order?

You obviously handled it well, but unstowing your brakes is far more important than stowing the slider, isn't it?

This is the kind of thing I'm kind-of concerned about - where I get caught up doing things that don't matter as much as having a good canopy over my head. I was taught to ALWAYS unstow the brakes first thing (unless you have to steer away from traffic on opening).

Glad you're ok!

T.I.N.S.

[pchapman 261]

Quote

Shouldn't those two things be reversed in order?

You obviously handled it well, but unstowing your brakes is far more important than stowing the slider, isn't it?

Hi Gato,
It's OK -
If one stows one's slider at the bottom of the risers, as normal on faster canopies, then one stows the slider first, then pops the toggles, otherwise the slider tends to jam on the toggles. If one needs steering before then, one uses rear risers.

[dragon2 0]

You want to try pulling your slider down over your risers when you have your toggles unstowed already? Good luck with that. If you happen to have triple risers it gets really interesting if you have to unstow your brakes first.

For a student, yeah sure, unstow brakes quickly, but they usually do not have collapsible sliders and definitely not sliders that you pull down to your neck. Later on in your skydiving career some things change

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Gato 0]

I get it - I don't have mini risers, and my slider isn't collapsible (yet). I'm fairly certain I won't be pulling it down below the connector links, anyway - I've got small rapide links.

Ya learn somthin' new every day.

T.I.N.S.

[jimjumper 25]

The right steering line was knotted at the loop without the break setting slack released. Flying the canopy required that the left steering toggle be flown at the half brake position to keep it flying straight. I suppose I could have wrapped the excess steering line around my hand and then used the rear risers to land but I seemed to be doing Ok with what I was doing.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

I've done it 2-3 times, mainly when I was rushing to pack the toggles in the field and mis-stowed the lines.

2-3 times? Missed opportunity for a "lesson learned".

Don't set your brakes and stow your excess in the field. Do it at packing time in the hangar.

Not only that but it doing it in the field distracts you from watching out for that newbie coming in behind you that can't avoid the big fat target you are making of yourself in the LZ.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[erdnarob 1]

Excellent reminder indeed to take a second or two to make sure you grab your toggles the proper way. Since I started jumping I have always paid a lot of attention to set the brakes at packing and undo them after opening. However Murphy's law exists and what could happen did happen. I was at the Summerfest at Skydive Chicago last July and one morning at the first jump after opening I grabbed my toggles and undid the brakes. I let them go in order to collapse my slider but when I grabbed my toggles again, I had the right one locked. First I thought that the toggle had gone around the steering line just above the guide ring and I tried to clear that up but the locking was very stubborn and then I decided to fly it that way. Having a Katana didn't help but since the locking was high enough the canopy was flying quite straight. I did some test at altitude to make sure I could flare it at landing and it worked provided I put my whole weight on it. I landed OK slipping softly in the grass but the flare wasn't easy to perform. What was the problem?
Under the rear right riser are 2 channels to stow the excess of steering line. The excess of steering line was only going thru the top channel and the toggle had passed in the excess loop below the top channel. Pulling at it was making a lock of the steering line around the top stowing channel. It was so tight that I had to use a Swiss army nail file to undo the knot. I couldn't believe it happened. I guess that happened when I suddenly released my toggles to take care of my slider but it is really hard to believe it happened that way. A brakes stowing mistake ? Maybe. I always do the brakes myself when I use a packer. Anyway, another good lesson for me.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[kkeenan 13]

I had one like that years ago on a Sabre 1. I cut the knotted line with a hook knife and landed on rears. Replacing the lower steering line was cheaper than a reserve repack.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[erdnarob 1]

Maybe a solution would be to buy TRULOCK toggles for UPT Vector. That garanties that a minimum of steering line excess is left floating free. For those toggles you need 2 channels on the inside of the risers to pass the excess of steering line. But you still will have to take a second or 2 before grabbing the toggles properly. Nothing is foolproof.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[sraja 0]

I do have Trulock toggles - but even then the lines are made of Spectran and are very thin. There is a lot of loose play area and like you stated - no solution is foolproof.

[erdnarob 1]

The amount of steering line excess depends also on the make of the canopy. For instance, the Spectre has a lot of excess while the Katana has quite less.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.