Manufacturing waiting times

[bigway 4]

So there are some very popular manufacturers who have very big waiting times. Does this affect you purchasing their product brand new (custom made) or not?

As a distributor i was suprised to see that some wait times were over 23 weeks at one point. Im not complainign about that but i am wondering if some of you guys thought, well i will just try and find their product second hand then.

The reason i ask this is because i notice Safire2's are hard to find second hand, especially Crossfire2's. Icarus in spain had a huge wait at one point and i wonder if the reaosn you cant find these canopies so easily second hand is because it is super easy to sell them as people dont want to wait?

Also, on a side note, those that were put off by Icarus's wait time when it was 24 weeks, how come you did not just order from the origon of Icarus NZAerosports as their wait time was only 3-12 weeks?

Just curious.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[rhys 0]

That really depends on how urgent you need it Gary.

For our new containers we don't mind waiting as we have our old ones to use in the meantime. If my rig got nicked, then i would get a 2nd hand one so i could keep myself in the air.

I voted to wait, as you are only ever really happy if you get what you really want!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[gearless_chris 1]

Quote

That really depends on how urgent you need it Gary.

For our new containers we don't mind waiting as we have our old ones to use in the meantime. If my rig got nicked, then i would get a 2nd hand one so i could keep myself in the air.

I voted to wait, as you are only ever really happy if you get what you really want!

Yeah, what he said

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[Joellercoaster 6]

One day I'll see someone selling a container in the size I'm after, with a harness that will fit me.

Until then, it'll have to be custom containers, which means I can wait for new canopies (unless it's a Safire2 and the container manufacturer isn't UPT, obviously ).

Starting to get down into sizes where second hand canopies get cheaper and more infrequently purchased, so cost becomes more of a factor than wait time in that deprtment. I may have bought my last custom main, but I guess we'll see.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[ladydyver 0]

I actually got my new canopy last year in a pretty timely manner...and it was over the winter so wasn't jumping anyway...I also had another rig to jump until it arrived so I was just patient and waited.....but again...I had something to use in my spare time.

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[bigway 4]

I know your answer mate. You just waited 6 months for a container. Didnt you buy two canopies off me during that 6 months wait for the container as well?

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi bigway,

I probably spend way too much time thinking about this problem.

My solution: Each rig maker should offer three options:

1. Take your pick from their 10 stock colors.
2. Take your pick from any color but with black trim & black harness.
3. Order custom colors as you wish.

They could then offer different wait times for each type of rig.

Hmmmm, I wonder which option most would take.

JerryBaumchen

[bigway 4]

You know i am finding that over the last 12 months more and more manufacturers are producing more stock than usual cause of the wait times.

For example, Aerodyne send me a PDF file every friday with their new stock and it is always mega packed. But they sell alot over the weekend.
Icarus have a lot of stock.

Also Wings do alot of stock containers.

If you buy stock it is always nearly the same price, however if you buy a stock wings container these are heavily discounted.
For example, you buy a wings stock container and there is no reason you would pay more than $1500usd for the container with the options.

I find alot of people buy stock canopies, not so much stock containers. Aerodyne has a great stock programme that they have been building for the past 2 years and i think they have finally hit the point where if you want something now in reasonable sizes then aerodyne has it in stock and will make the harness to fit and delivered within 4 weeks.

From what I see, Icarus also has great stock.
However, custom made icarus canopies are only taking around 5 weeks with from New Zealand.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi bigway,

Quote

You know i am finding that over the last 12 months more and more manufacturers are producing more stock than usual cause of the wait times.

I feel that this reinforces my arguement that each rig maker should make 10 stock colors only (a black one, a blue one, a teal one, etc ) and they would sell just as many as they do now.

The customer base would adapt and life would be much happier.

The automakers figured it out a long time ago. They do have options but they come as 'packages.' You can buy the stipped-down car or you can upgrade with a choice of packages.

Now days most jumpers want all the accessories. In a rig the accessories do not slow down the production times.

JerryBaumchen

[bigway 4]

With aerodyne they have done exactly this with their 'elements' range.

Not all stock containers can have options added to them though.

With Wings, you could buy a stock container at the moment for around 30% off the MSRP and have it in a couple of weeks. (not made to measure)

With aerodyne you could buy stock at the normal sale price and have the harness made to measure and with you in 4 weeks.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[mr_music11 0]

Manufacturing time definatly was a factor in my decision to buy used. I was actually able to find the type of harness/main/reserve in used condition MUCH faster than I would have been able to get them new. I did have to compromise on the colors obviously, but for me, fuctionality/saftey take precidence over asthetics.. and my desire to jump without having to pay for rentals or jump on gear that is not mine to get used to. I opted for used, havn't been disapointed yet. May find out differently some day when I do break down and get the "brand new rig" and wait in upward of 1 1/2 years to get it! Until then.. very happy with what I got. Blue skies

If flying is piloting a plane.. then swimming is driving a boat. I know why birds sing.. I skydive.

[bigway 4]

Does anyone know if that guy who ordered PDF ever got his gear after 18 months or something stupid?

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[AndyMan 7]

You forgot the third option:

I choose a different manufacturer when my favorite one can't offer reasonable customer service.

Unusually long wait times are a great indicator that a company isn't capable of providing basic customer service. To me, this is a very strong indicator that I should pick a different manufacturer.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[bigway 4]

what do you regards as unusaly long? Mid season the norm can be between seventeen and twenty two weeks with the majority of popular manufacturers these days such as aerodyne, Icarus, wings and micron.
I have experienced wait times in that region with all the manufacturers I mentioned above at least once this year. Maybe wings was a week under that though.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[JanuszPS 0]

I think two types of customer needs to be distinguished.

1)People looking for their first rig or those who do not have any to jump
and
2)those who already have one.
In my opinion more reluctant to choose the quicker manufacturer due to the waiting time being too long should be those who buy their first rig or those who have no rig.
People who have already one and are changing due to downsize (or any other reason) can easily wait for the rig longer, because they have something which can jump.
I personally, depending on the circumstances and founds, would choose the quicker option/used gear. However recently as I might move soon tho the canopy on which I'm going to stay for longer could consider to wait longer for the container which I'll stay for much longer with (e.g. final downsize to the range of the canopies which can be put into one container - 135/120 in my case).

In terms of Icon, I've been checking recently the stock, and it seams that there is nothing available at the moment.

Regards
Janusz
Edit:
I'm defenitely for stock rig and I believe that there is plenty of "desperate" people who would buy the stock gear without any problem.

Back to Poland... back home.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

I think two types of customer needs to be distinguished.

1)People looking for their first rig or those who do not have any to jump
and

Buying a used rig is usually a better idea unless you have a really odd body shape/size, and even then you may be better off getting a harness resized or a new one made.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

You forgot the third option:

I choose a different manufacturer when my favorite one can't offer reasonable customer service.

Unusually long wait times are a great indicator that a company isn't capable of providing basic customer service. To me, this is a very strong indicator that I should pick a different manufacturer.

_Am

The demand is season. Gear manufacturers can either

1. Hire new employees to meet the demand, train them, lay them off at the end of the busy season.

or

2. Hire enough people to handle the average year's production.

#2 is nicer to the employees, has lower training costs, requires a smaller factory, and is apparantly compatable with the skydiving market (the rigs with the longest waits are often the most popular inspite of that delay).

[AndyMan 7]

While that's plainly true, the vast majority of parachute equipment is functionally identical across manufacturers, and costs roughly the same.

The only thing left to compete on is customer service.

The rest of this industry seems to be able to manage the cyclical nature, I don't see why manufacturers can't. All that is moot however - it's not my job as a customer to make excuses for the manufacturers.


Also, to bring this back on track, the original question was simple: How do you deal with a long wait time? My answer is simple: I find a different manufacturer.


_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Joellercoaster 6]

Quote

Does anyone know if that guy who ordered PDF ever got his gear after 18 months or something stupid?

Yeah, he did, eventually. He is not a fan of PdF at all, just ask him.

By the way the Vector I bought from you has been assembled and packed up, and is now sitting on a chair beside me looking completely awesome.

You're right - in the time it took the container to get made, I had time to order one custom main to go in it, change my mind and sell it on to someone else, then order another one, have that built and sent to UPT, still in time to be installed. If I hadn't been so determined to get a Skyhook, my life could have been much easier.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[kj126 0]

As we discussed the other day about waiting on NZ to get their materials tested, I will probably be going back to a PD Velo, Its not just the wait time because I messed up myself and sold my other canopy to have funds to purchase another, but cannot sit and not practice while waiting on them to get everything in order.

And the second hand market seems to be bare at the molment.

I Am Sofa King We Todd Did!!

[bigway 4]

Yeah, that is understandable. It is a shame i guess they put a canopy out there when they were not 110% happy with materials they were using (if that is the case) but with them being the sort of small company that is trying to bring new innovative products to the sport it sort of can be expected. Actually, maybe it could not be expected by all but i have seen them testing new canopies ever since i started in the sport so see what they have been trying to achieve. I have never seen more deicated guys run a company and put so much money into the sport with such little financial return. These guys are NZ skydivings biggest sponsor at the same time and only two of them are kiwis.
I do think it is a shame that they have had to rethink their material after they released it but i am confident they are only going to make it better for the next time you purchase.

On a side note mate, I have sent an email yesterday chasing up if they have enough of the other material to put a canopy together for you. Even if it happens to be a different colour for a bit less off the retail price. Will let you know once i have heard back from them.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[kj126 0]

I appreciate that again.
I wished all dealers had your respect in getting back with thier customers.

I Am Sofa King We Todd Did!!

[bigway 4]

Just gave them a call and will send you a PM.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[PhreeZone 15]

Part of the driver is military orders also. When the military places an order for 150 containers that adds on top of a already full work load. Some of the manufacturers are scaling up their production lines but that means new construction, new employees, new certifications, etc. Just adding another 15 people to the assembly line is not going to suddenly reduce the wait time from 20 weeks to 5 weeks, it will have a smaller impact and will mainly impact the existing orders first.

In talks with one of the major manufacturers this spring they were making sure the wait times were holding steady for a few months before putting a lot of money into new facilities and hiring more staff since the last thing they wanted to do was to hire people only to let them go 2 months later. The labor pool of qualified sewers is not that large in a lot of the locations that parachute gear is sewn at.

So far this year I have been quoted 18 weeks for a container, 8 weeks for a main, and 8-12 weeks for a jumpsuit.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

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