Canopy size advice, knowing its difficulties

[hanoii 0]

Hello there,

I have 340 jump and most of them I have been flying a rather old and used sabre1 150ft (year 91 and 1000+ jumps). I weight around 75kg (165lbs) plus my gear weight which I am not sure but aprox. 25lbs. It's in good conditions but I want to buy a new one. I am not jumping as much as I'd like and I want to keep myself safe but, on the other side, buying a canopy requires quite an effort (financially) from me so I want to make the right choice without compromising any security issues.

Basically for what I have decided so far I am going to buy a sabre2. I have a friend that owns two brand new (135 and 150) and I want to decide for one of them carefully, I can try them both and I think I'll try the 150 this weekend. I have been reading a bunch of articles in the PD site and in the size chart they provide I would fall in the MAX category of the 135 and that worries me a little. I am not jumping as much as I'd like, on the contrary, quite less, but I am planning on doing some training in the states sometime in the following months and maybe start jumping a bit more, but I hardly consider myself to be in the expert or max category of any canopy.

With all this personal background, any advice? How much should I based my decision into that chart? Other considerations? What about the wing load (1.26 on the 150ft and 1.4 on the 135ft) ?

Thanks
a.=

[Bertt 0]

You have really answered your own question. You can put a lot of jumps on that 150 before you move to something smaller.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[AggieDave 6]

You would be around 1.26 on the 150 and around 1.4 on the 135. The only things that are similar between the Sabre1 and the Sabre2 is that they have 9 cells, are made by PD and it says "Sabre" on the side of the canopy. Beyond that, they are two wildly different canopies.

With that said, the 150 wouldn't be a bad choice with the Sabre2. Have you had a chance to jump a Sabre2? Will your friend let you jump his Sabre2? You might like the 150, you may not.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[hanoii 0]

Quote

You would be around 1.26 on the 150 and around 1.4 on the 135.

Have you had a chance to jump a Sabre2? Will your friend let you jump his Sabre2? You might like the 150, you may not.

No, I haven't, and yes, I'll try the new sabre2 150ft probably this weekend, and maybe try the 135ft as well. Is 1.4 for a wing load too much?

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Is 1.4 for a wing load too much?

Maybe.

You have 300 jumps and some change. 1.4 *might* be ok for you. 1.4 *might* be well beyond your ability! Somethings to consider is that on a 150 and lower you're not just looking at the wingloading. You're also looking at things like line length and how much drag the canopy has (or doesn't have) and how that relates to performance.

A 135 at 1.4 is reasonably aggressive. That is a question that is much better suited for a local canopy mentor that has seen you jump.

During all of this process, it would be good for you to take fundamentals canopy course of some type from a respected canopy coach (it can be a local guy).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[councilman24 36]

I'd suggest the 150 at your experience.

FWIW the PD charts are very conservative, on purpose. It's good you looking at them and are concerned. That shows the right mind set. And you certainly should consider them. But if you look around you'll see many/most PD canopies being jumped above the recommendations.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JanuszPS 0]

I fully agree with AggieDave's post.
I'm not giving you advice to go for 135 as I don't know how you fly and land your current canopy.

From my experience:
I was in a similar situation. Now I have about 350 jumps and 130 on WL 1.4 on a 135 canopy. And to be honest I do not regret that change. In the matter of fact I moved from Sb 2 150 at 1.25 WL, which I didn't like much as a canopy.
Being with 300-something at 1.4 WL is not that dramatical looking from my recent experience. I plan to stay on my 135 canopy for at least another 200 jumps, specially now after reline. There is a lot of power and speed in my 135 to stay and learn with it. However before I moved to 135 I have done 2 canopy flying courses. I put a lot of attention to landings and I try to improve them every single time. I respect my canopy and I try to plan my landings before I go to the plane. However I can land off my DZ as it happened several times in different weather conditions. The courses are very useful and that knowledge can protect you against potential mistakes.
Personally (as an engineer) I assume that all those charts are with quite large safety factor on board, taking all jumpers being the same and rush of some of them. There is no personal factor which plays a huge role.
Be safe and careful and make the decisions consciously knowing the consequences of potential mistakes.
Janusz
BTW if you are asking it doesn't mean that you shouldn't change. I wasn't sure and full of doubts, but after demo of exactly the same type of canopy which I now jump, I was sure that I'll be ok.

Back to Poland... back home.

[gearless_chris 1]

Quote

I'd suggest the 150 at your experience.

FWIW the PD charts are very conservative, on purpose. It's good you looking at them and are concerned. That shows the right mind set. And you certainly should consider them. But if you look around you'll see many/most PD canopies being jumped above the recommendations.

This is an email I got from George at Precision when I was looking into buying my new rig. I was asking about the 135 Xaos-21.

Hi Chris,
We have made crossbraced canopies as large as 135 sq ft, but as a result of that experience, we have decided not to offer these canopies in sizes over 120 sq ft. We publish a recommended maximum operating weight limitation of 259 for our largest Xaos canopies just because the mis-managed landing speeds become too unmanageable above those weights.

The Xaos-27 can be flown at a wingloading of 1:1, but that's sort of like driving a Ferrari in downtown traffic.

At a wingloading of 2.6 : 1, the X-27 118 will physically handle more than 300 lbs, but we de-rate the canopy to 259 lbs

Technically, at 240 lbs exit weight, you are in the acceptable weight range for a Xaos-27 98 sq ft. Sound too small? You might want to move up to a 108, but even at 118 sq ft you would only be loading the canopy at only 2.03 : 1, which is well within the normal operating range of the Xaos 27.

Call me if you want to talk about it, but believe me when I say you DO NOT
want a crossbraced canopy bigger than 120 sq ft.

Thanks for your note.

Best regards,
George Galloway

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.