Why I hate health care

[vmsfreaky1 0]

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I hear ya man, I really do... It's a f*cked up system and it'll probably break someday, but at least it is better than what Canada has... (no offense to Canadians and all, but your health care system stinks)

Yeah free health care is so lame.

Whats on earth could you have against free healthcare?

Does it seem just a little pinko to you

[lurking 0]

No offense meant, but...

For a European it is hard to understand, that a civilized country with a strong economy can have people running around with no health insurance. Over here, if you have any kind of job, it´s compulsory and is deducted from your pay. If you are married with children and the wife does not have an income, wife and kids are covered by the fathers (compulsory) insurance. If you are unemployed, insurance payments are taken out of your "unemployment support", if you are retired, it´s taken out of your pension. Nobody runs around (or even drives a car or skydives) without health insurance.

You might say it should be somebody´s choice to get insurance or not (land of the free, you know) but taking that decision and then relying on the ER at the taxpayers´ expense does not seem to be fair to me.

(Is this thread really still in bonfire???)

Thomas
Germany

[mailin 0]

I've been turned down for ins. on multiple occassions (danm pre-existing condition clause)- finally got this new job and having ins. that costs me alot of money and has copays higher than anything I've ever heard of.

I'm not complaining of course but wanted to point out that sometimes its just plain hard to get ins. even when your trying.



Jen

Arianna Frances

[craichead 0]

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I hear ya man, I really do... It's a f*cked up system and it'll probably break someday, but at least it is better than what Canada has... (no offense to Canadians and all, but your health care system stinks)

You know this as a fact because you've had first-hand experience with the Canadian health care system? Did you live there as a landed immigrant?

_Pm

__
"Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC)

[littlestranger 0]

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when I pay taxes and that is what should cover EMTs and what not any ways.

Your confusing our democratic system with socialism, wrong country.

[RfukfreeflyingW 0]

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Over here, if you have any kind of job, it´s compulsory and is deducted from your pay. If you are married with children and the wife does not have an income, wife and kids are covered by the fathers (compulsory) insurance. If you are unemployed, insurance payments are taken out of your "unemployment support", if you are retired, it´s taken out of your pension. Nobody runs around (or even drives a car or skydives) without health insurance.

You might say it should be somebody´s choice to get insurance or not (land of the free, you know) but taking that decision and then relying on the ER at the taxpayers´ expense does not seem to be fair to me.

(Is this thread really still in bonfire???)

Thomas
Germany

you know whats funny about americans, is that when you just "take" money from us, we tend to not be happy. Insurence money is taken out of your employment check, but is sometimes expensive and people decide they cant afford it.

Americans arent big fans of not having choices, but we have those that bitch about not having health care, and they'd be the same bitching if the money was just being "taken" out for health care. "It should be free"

well nothings free anywhere, yes even you people in canada, and every other country that gives "free" health care. you pay for it, you just pay and different times...cause unless the medics doctors, gas stations, vehicle companys, etc are donating times and supplys, well people gotta get paid.

so if its not ok to take the money up front, and its just too expensive to take in after the fact, when is it ok for you to pay?

that should send it to SC maybe

----
-God, you are the perfect amount of dumb...

[Andy9o8 0]

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I hear ya man, I really do... It's a f*cked up system and it'll probably break someday, but at least it is better than what Canada has... (no offense to Canadians and all, but your health care system stinks)

Yeah, but still, having mediocre guaranteed health care coverage is better than having none at all. It’s an abomination that in a country as affluent as the U.S. so many people and families have no health insurance because they’re not in a job that provides health insurance as a benefit, and private health insurance for a family is prohibitively expensive. And so they just “jump without a reserve”, as it were, hoping that nobody in the family gets into a car accident on the way to the store, or the kid breaks a leg playing soccer, or needs an operation, etc. And it’s not just the poor, it’s many, many people in the middle class. You work for a company and get laid off, you lose your health care if you can’t pay an extra $900/month, even with COBRA. We’re supposed to be a country that promotes small-business entrepreneurs. Well, if you’re self-employed, or you’re an independent contractor (and LOTS more people are independent contractors now than ever before), etc., nobody’s going to pay your family’s health insurance but you; and if it’s a choice between making the mortgage or rent each month, or paying ransom for health insurance, guess what you’re going to choose? Meanwhile, the govt (regardless of which party's in power at any given time) squanders billions of bucks giving sweetheart no-bid contracts to political cronies. You know how much health insurance could be funded with that kind of money? The system is badly broken. Something must be done. Purely socialized medicine may not be the answer, but neither is the status quo.

[Vallerina 2]

Healthcare can be really really really frustrating.

With my old insurance, I could really only go to one hospital (there was only one place I could go to within a reasonable distance of my house.) So, I went there even though my family had major problems with the facility (they never caught my tonsilitis, they never caught my great-grandmother's heart problems....) So, I went for a checkup. They said that I would only hear back if there were problems. I never heard back, so I thought everything was fine. About six months later, I get a letter telling me that there were problems. I had to go in, and they had lost my records. It was one big mess. I wasn't too shocked...the facility is a disaster. It's pretty much well known to avoid it (I say this even though a family member is on the Board there.)

Whenever I hear that with our health care, we at least have a choice, I think of that story and giggle. I didn't have a reasonable choice. My insurance didn't have many options as far as doctors I could see (they finally expanded it, though.) Yes, I know that everyone needs to get paid for their services. Yes, I know that there is no perfect health care system. Yes, I know this will be moved to SC. However, to dismiss the problems that we have with health care because it's what people think is the best is silly.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[nate_1979 9]

Welcome to the number 1 reason that I'm worried about getting out of the military

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[kelel01 1]

If you want insurance, you need to get a job that offers it. If it means you have to do something you don't want to, tough. That's reality here in the U.S. Need more education to get such a job? Again, tough. It's reality.

Now to all the people who boo Canada's healthcare system but have ever considered living as a skydiving bum, think how nice it would be to be able to be a skydiving bum and not end up with a $50,000 hospital bill when you bust your femur. It'd be sweet as hell if I could coach gymnastics for a living, but without health benefits, IT'S NOT REALITY. Suck it up and deal with it, or apply for your Canadian citizenship, ASAP.

I never even read the original post to this thread, though, so I have no idea how this whole Canada vs. U.S. system thing came up, but that's what I'm responding to.

[ChrisL 2]

My 17 year old son god drunk and passed out on somebodys yard.
They called the police and an ambulance to take him to the ER.

We got the bills and the whole thing cost about $1600.00

about $700.00 for the ambulance and another $900.00 for the EMT's

Gimme a freakin break! Thats not even counting the emergency room charges.

I think its fair that there are charges for the service, but those amounts are absurd.

My son is going to pay every nickle of those bills because I'm teaching him a lesson. When you fuck up you pay the piper.
Mom and Dad arent here to bail you out for being an idiot.

If it were not for that, I'd be fighting those charges tooth and nail.

Its fair that people pay for those services.
$1600.00 for about an hours worth of service is just fucking ridiculous

__

My mighty steed

[Muenkel 0]

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We got the bills and the whole thing cost about $1600.00

about $700.00 for the ambulance and another $900.00 for the EMT's

Gimme a freakin break!

Maybe the charges are that high to cover the people who skip out on their bill because it 'wasn't their fault they got sick'.

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Chris

[ChrisL 2]

I take responsibility for either paying or "arranging terms" for my own
bills whether it was accidental or caused by my own stupidity.

I dont blow them off or make up absurd stories, and I dont feel I should be overcharged because someone else has no sense of personal responsibility.

__

My mighty steed

[tigra 0]

Well, you can say the same thing about auto insurance. The responsible people who have it pay outrageous premiums to offset the deadbeats that don't. Also, shopping. Prices are higher to offset losses due to theft. it goes on and on.

[Muenkel 0]

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I take responsibility for either paying or "arranging terms" for my own
bills whether it was accidental or caused by my own stupidity.

I dont blow them off or make up absurd stories, and I dont feel I should be overcharged because someone else has no sense of personal responsibility.

I believe you do. Unfortunately, ambulance providers have to stay in business. As long as we have people who won't take the time to set up a payment plan because it was not their fault they got sick, the honest folks will continue to pay higher rates.

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Chris

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Your confusing our democratic system with socialism, wrong country.

Umm, democracy is a form of government. Socialism is a type of economy. They can coexist or not, but are not opposing philosophies.

[Elisha 1]

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Well, you can say the same thing about auto insurance. The responsible people who have it pay outrageous premiums to offset the deadbeats that don't. Also, shopping. Prices are higher to offset losses due to theft. it goes on and on.

Inaccurate.

The Under/un-insured coverage of your premium is usually <10% of your total premium.

As for groups, driving groups with like characterstics and experience are rated differently from others. It is an expected cost for the group - why 16 yr olds pay more than 40 yr olds and people with 2 moving violations pay more than those with zero.

[ChrisL 2]

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As long as we have people who won't take the time to set up a payment plan because it was not their fault they got sick, the honest folks will continue to pay higher rates.

Sadly, the cycle continues as those higher rates will cause more people to blow off the bills because they cant afford them or are just plain pissed off at being charged such absurd rates.

Perhaps the answer is to run a credit check on the victim before rendering any services

__

My mighty steed

[Dougjumper 0]

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I think its fair that there are charges for the service, but those amounts are absurd.

Yea I agree with you there. Thats one of the problems I see in America not to diss you either skymedic but I was an Emt as well mid 80's and there's no set charges for services rendered. Hell, they charged me $3.00 for one tylenol while I was hospitalized once. Sorry but thats BS. Thats why a lot of people complain because of the rising costs of Healthcare no set charges.

I see a change in some medical practice and we for the most part are starting to go to Socialized medicine in some areas.

The glass is half full or half empty doesn't matter. Let go and have the Lord guide your path. He will take care of it all.

[Vallerina 2]

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Well, you can say the same thing about auto insurance. The responsible people who have it pay outrageous premiums to offset the deadbeats that don't. Also, shopping. Prices are higher to offset losses due to theft. it goes on and on.

Inaccurate.

The Under/un-insured coverage of your premium is usually <10% of your total premium.

As for groups, driving groups with like characterstics and experience are rated differently from others. It is an expected cost for the group - why 16 yr olds pay more than 40 yr olds and people with 2 moving violations pay more than those with zero.

She's not completely inaccurate. People will lie on their policies ("No, I'm the only person living here,") then lie when they have a claim ("No, he isn't living here.") People frequently don't pay for what's being covered for them. Because of these people, insurance companies have to invest in SIU departments, which costs them and the consumers who actually pay money.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[freeflygoddess 0]

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Please tell me how you were forced to take an ambulance? No one is ever forced to take an ambulance...especialy one that could take other means of transport...

I was picking my oldest up from school and the nurse saw me pass out and she called. The principal called a friend who was on my son's emergancy card to pick up the kids. I told everyone to please just let me go home, but they insisted.

The EMT had come into my room later at the hospital to sign things off and he was the one who suggested that I say I was Canadian. He actually cared about his patient.

Later I saw him in the store and I thanked him and I found out he was the one who took care of Derek's twin who happend to have serious heart problems and didn't make it. He was life flighted to another hospital and died in the care of that EMT. I think that flight more than covered for my hospital bill....let alone my complicated pregnancy and Derek's surgery and doctor's visits.

Also, my hubby and I have not jumped since April 2004 because of medical expenses with Derek and my pregnancy. I was only with/out insurance for 7 months. I am now covered because we are now married.

I will remeber the next time I see someone hook it in I'll call them a cab. being that most skydivers don't have insurance.

Also if you care more about money than the people you take care of, you need another job.

[scottbre 0]

I think one of the biggest reason for problems in our health care system is the general "American mentality". So many Americans feel like they are OWED so much that they try to take advantage of "the system".

What I think is absurbly stupid is that someone would commit fraud against a weakness in our healthcare system and then basically brag about it on a public forum. NOTHING written here is protected or private.

Health care technology continues to get more and more advanced, yet many Medicaid programs continue to lower their reimbursement rates. But because everyone feels like they deserve the best and most up-to-date medical treatment whenever they want it, but don't want to pay for it, this creates a huge deficit.

It also probably doesn't help that Americans, on average, probably have one of the most unhealthy lifestyles in the world.

Yea sometimes dealing with an insurance company sucks, but it sucks all around, for the patient and the provider. That's why my chiropractor has a "Cash fee" for people who don't have insurance or choose not to use their insurance (like me). That way they can charge what the services are actually worth instead of charging their "going rate" because they know that the insurance company will dicker it down to nothing anyway.

What's my point? Not sure I have one specific one, but I see the health care industry everyday, from an insider's point of view, and it's amazing that it's sustained itself this long.

What I DO know is that someone who lies to get out of paying their emergency medical bills (easily the most expensive aside from transpant surgery) and then tried to justify it because of how "screwed up" the system is, is one GIGANTIC hypocrit who probably doesn't deserve the medical attention that they managed to con their way out of paying for.

"Your mother's full of stupidjuice!"
My Art Project

[Muenkel 0]

Very well put, Scott!

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Chris

[dharma1976 0]

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AND it's sickening to me that someone would see no problem with paying his physical therapist only $45 to keep him from having a permanent limp....or whatever it is he's trying to accomplish. I don't know how such a person can look that therapist in the face. All I can say is it's a very kind physical therapist who is saving him all of that money....

linz

the only reason it is more per hour for the insured is because they only sometimes get paid form the insurance providers, not because he is getting a deal, hospitals bill people about 200% of what they expect, and then if they sue you in the end only get usually 35% of what they billed.

its a whack system, where people are charging for things they didnt do, like the doctore that walked into my ER room and said let me get the Bonesetter, billed me 700 dollars, for something I could have said and did say when I got there.

its a fucked up system where we pay more in taxes than say someone in finland and get none of the cool services like free education and health care.

cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[haymangonzo 0]

I'am living in Europe and have lived here in three different countries. I've got relatives living in the US and think I understand a bit of the system going on over there and here. In the end the dealings with the administrative and financial side of medical care are never a happy undertaking. And yes indeed in most european countries medical insurance is compulsory and yes indeed medical care is never free as in the end citizens end paying one way or the other. I think the biggest problem with medical care in Europe or the US is much more the very high costs of it and the fact that they keep climbing dramatically. These high costs are putting an enormous strain on an economy and as such on its residents in the end.

My brother in law who is a medic in California was told by his (former) employer to continue treatment on patients until they reached the maximum of their insurance. So he was not allowed to stop treatment on some patients who where in fact cured and kept them coming back for a couple of more sessions.

We need to get the spiraling costs in check as that's what's breaking us up!

My 2 cents.

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Nice to meet you toot!