skydiving with ipod's?

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Lots of people wear ear plugs in the plane AND in freefall. You consider that hazardous ?

I wear them. Good quality earplugs let you hear voice frequencies while attenuating engine/prop noise. I find I can hear voices better in the plane when I'm wearing ear plugs than without.

Many jump planes have a noise level that WILL cause hearing loss in a fairly short time.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[surfbum5412 0]

Quote

seriously though there are a big concerns that I have with music while skydiving. In the plane it may impair your ability to listen and respond to commands relating to an in air emergency. Even if it isn't an emergency you may lose key information relayed by the pilot or other jumpers on board.

This is non-sense. A lot of skydivers like to lecture people with "If you get struck by lightning" theories (I coined that term). Anyways...I was on a plane where we had to evacuate because of drastic oil pressure loss in one of the engines. trust me on this guy, while I was listening to music at the time, i could clearly tell something was wrong when everyone scrambled to put there helmets on while the door flung open. My helmet was on just as fast and I was out of the plane just as fast.

So...go ahead and enjoy the music on your way to altitude.

[strop45 0]

Quote

What I think he's getting at is statistically more people have died not wearing a PLD than have died wearing one. That being the case statistically its safer.

This is just a misuse/misunderstanding of statistics. 40% of deaths of the road involve alcohol, therefore 60% involve people who haven't been drinking, i.e. it is safer to drink and drive. Similarly more people die on the roads then skydiving, therefore skydiving is safer then driving.

This is of course nonsense, you have to take into account the number of people doing an activity when calculating the probability of a particular outcome.

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

[repcool 2]

Quote

Here's one to chew on....
It may be demonstrated that it is MORE SAFE to skydive with a PLD than it is without one.
Many skydivers bounce each year. Not one of them died wearing a PLD.
Therefore, more skydivers fly safely with PLD's than skydivers who bounce with PLD's.
Pretzel logic, but no moreso than being lectured on the use of a PLD by those who never have.

Honestly I am not so bothered about the IPOD thing. However, in this sport I don't think we can take the attitude of "it hasn't killed anyone so it must be safe". Do we really need a serious injury or a fatality to determine whether a group of the communities concerns are valid?

edited for terrible grammar

[saffron 0]

As music dependent as I am- I just don't understand the need for an additional (unnecessary) factor in what we do.

Just a couple of years ago, sitting towards the front of the otter, the pilot told the jumper (instructor) sitting next to me, to lose the ipod- he may need to relate important information to him immediately. The instructor huffed, put away the ipod and then whipped out his cell phone to text something to someone.

???? Has skydiving become so boring and trivial that we need something else to entertain us while doing it????

"He who jumps into the void owes no explanation to those who stand and watch."~Jean Luc Godard

[Amazon 7]

I have jumped with MP3 players before.... Sometimes I like to go do some freestyle and dance on air....BUT.. I have the mini player IN my helmet.... and I turn it on as I am ready to leave the plane..I also keep my selections to about 45 sec or so

[humanflite 0]

Quote

Quote

For those people who do use them in freefall I do not judge negatively. It is their choice and right to do what they wish. All of us are responsible for our own choices.

The problem is when their choice endangers someone else because they have voluntarily forfeited their sense of hearing...

If they want to kill themselves, that's their business.

But when they try to kill me because they can't hear anything else, then there's a BIG problem.

Agreed. and very valid points you made earlier John.

There is no way in hell that playing an ipod or music on a jump can be anything other than DANGEROUS. To yourself and others.
Music (regardless of how switched on you think you are) will mess with your awareness...as Shropshire says, there are lots of things that you will miss out on from the skydive and opening, and canopy flight...
Putting others at risk... and it doesnt take 50000 jumps to realise that its not a smart move.

[DSE 3]

Quote

There is no way in hell that playing an ipod or music on a jump can be anything other than DANGEROUS. To yourself and others.

Where in the world is the ground littered with craters from all these dangerous people?

Quote

Music (regardless of how switched on you think you are) will mess with your awareness...as Shropshire says, there are lots of things that you will miss out on from the skydive and opening, and canopy flight...

You surely are aware of the dozens (if not hundreds) of studies that prove that in many situations, awareness and speed of response are increased due to music, right?
Or are you one of those old folks that think everyone who listens to an iPod does so at max volume? Do you wear earplugs, too?

Quote

Putting others at risk... and it doesnt take 50000 jumps to realise that its not a smart move

It also doesn't take 50,000 jumps to realize that some folks pull opinions out of their backside without taking the time to understand the topic and/or options available. In fact, I'd suspect that it takes a lot fewer than 50,000 jumps to realize that folks spewing untried things generate and follow a dangerous dogma (45 degree rule, anyone?)

BTW, I listened to Skydive Radio on my iPod yesterday during the climb to altitude. Does that make me less dangerous? It's a great episode with Norman Kent. Well worth the listen.

[jumpwally 0]

What style or brand do you recommend ?

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[NSEMN8R 0]

The only time I jump without my Ipod is when I'm doing a tandem and that's only because it seems kind of rude to the student. If a student had one they wanted to listen to, I'd feel comfortable using mine then too. I don't see any real safety concerns with it at all. Certainly no more of a distraction than flying a camera. Looks like lots of people are afraid to think outside of the box though.

Not saying it's a good idea for everyone. Obviously, if you already feel like your plate is full just dealing with the jump, you shouldn't add extra distractions like ipods and cameras... lots of people can handle it just fine though.

[DSE 3]

Shhhhhhhh!!! Tony, you're obviously a selfish zombie people killer whose parents didn't raise you right. How dare you attempt to even think about bringing a semblance of intelligence to this discussion?

[horny955 0]

I can only agree theres far more to be concentrating on that what track to listen to on exit!, save the music for chilling on the ground.

[skybytch 259]

Quote

If a student had one they wanted to listen to, I'd feel comfortable using mine then too. I don't see any real safety concerns with it at all.

As an instructor, you'd let a student listen to an Ipod in the airplane?

Wow. As an instructor, I can think of a number of things that a student should be doing in the airplane, and listening to music is NOT one of them...

[NSEMN8R 0]

Quote

As an instructor, you'd let a student listen to an Ipod in the airplane?

Wow. As an instructor, I can think of a number of things that a student should be doing in the airplane, and listening to music is NOT one of them...

I'm just talking about tandem students. There isn't much they need to do on the ride up besides a couple quick interviews for the video. I've never actually had a student want to, but I don't think it would be a big deal at all.

[pierre3636 0]

i do it all the time - only wingsuit jumps or hop and pops - personal choice, dont see anything wrong with it as long as you can hear audibles - i use two set to loud and can hear them VERY clearly under wingsuit.

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[rhys 0]

I feel music around aircraft, under parachute, and in the landing area could be a hazard, simply hearing "hey watch out" could save your life.

I am not totally opposed to people using them, but I have not felt the need to use them. The same goes when I am snowboarding. many people use them without consequence but that one time...

There are various situations where they may impede your ability to protect yourself from danger.

Standing on the landing area stowing your toggles at an otter DZ for example, you can look but that "hey watch out' is like having eyes in the back of your head.

People do the darndest things. I have seen people taken out when they were aware the danger was coming, if you don't have a chance to evade or protect your head, then you might just be a statistic.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[simon021 0]

Not that Im picking one side or the other on this debate, but do any of you people realize that it IS POSSIBLE to listen to an ipod without it being so loud that you can't hear anything going on around you? They do have VOLUME CONTROLS that can be adjusted to suit whatever volume you choose. It's pretty standard these days for music playing devices. I'm pretty sure DSE is not listening to this thing blasting in his ear the entire ride to altitude nor during freefall or under canopy.

Granted, I dont exactly agree with his thoughts on the matter, as in my (humble) opinion, there is plenty more to be worried about on skydiving day than music. But thats just me. If thats his gig, and he's safe about it, thats fine. If he's that guy on the plane that is never paying attention to instruction, or holding up the green light, or messing with the ipod while climbing out of the plane, thats one thing, but it really doesnt sound that way at all.

Relax people. DSE is obviously not some punk kid ignoring everyone on the way to altitude listening to his ipod before exiting on jump number 25 on his velocity 84 swooping in a 900 on his landing pattern.

I may not know shit about skydiving, but I am capable of understanding when someone does their homework about something, and it's extremely obvious that DSE has done his homework. I mean, seriously, a break-away ipod?

[DSE 3]

Two of my best friends that skydive are deaf. There is little difference between their deafness and my wearing my iPod in one ear.
Except that I can hear in both ears. Even with the iPod.

I do not ever wear an iPod except on wingsuit flights.
I do not advocate anyone with fewer than 500 or more skydives consider it. I don't see the value of an iPod on anything but wingsuit jumps where it's quiet and the flight is lengthy. YMMV.

[Ron 7]

Quote

dont see anything wrong with it as long as you can hear audibles

I see it as a distraction under canopy. With canopy collisions going up.... I think we need less distractions, not more.

Study after study has been done about people being distracted by music while driving.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rhys 0]

Quote

Two of my best friends that skydive are deaf. There is little difference between their deafness and my wearing my iPod in one ear.
Except that I can hear in both ears. Even with the iPod.

deafness is a disability, as much as deaf people have no problem skydiving they are more aware with thier other senses. if you are humming away to your music, your other senses are no more aware.

As I said, i am not totally opposed to people using them, but I do think the liklihood of a collision under canopy or on the ground is much higher without your hearing.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[DSE 3]

Quote

as deaf people have no problem skydiving they are more aware with thier other senses...
As I said, i am not totally opposed to people using them, but I do think the liklihood of a collision under canopy or on the ground is much higher without your hearing.

I suspect most deaf people will tell you that this is more or less a myth. I would think even moreso under canopy. No touch, taste, smell, under canopy.

I can't disagree that an irresponsible user of a PLD could increase the odds of a canopy collision. So could a tinted faceshield, and any number of other potential issues.
Agreed that on the whole, the idea of increased collision is probably accurate; how many of the canopy collisions in the past 5 years have involved a PLD and an experienced skydiver or deaf person?

[93zx11 0]

Quote

I do not ever wear an iPod except on wingsuit flights.
I do not advocate anyone with fewer than 500 or more skydives consider it. I don't see the value of an iPod on anything but wingsuit jumps where it's quiet and the flight is lengthy. YMMV.

I would beg to differ. Blasting classical took my freefly skillz to a whole new level.

Back when I skydived, I wore these big ass noice cancelling headphones. Best thing ever. I didn't have to listen to the babble about who farted anymore.

[MikeJD 0]

I think there's too much emphasis in this thread on the purely physical question of whether or not listening to music blocks out important aural warnings.

To me the pyschological effect is far more significant. For (I'd say) most people, a musical soundtrack changes the way we perceive the world. It provides drama where there is none, and calm where there's drama - it makes everything slightly unreal, as though you're living within a movie. That's part of the appeal, and it's something that was first noted when people started wearing the old Sony Walkman back at the end of the 70's. You don't need to have jumped with an MP3 player to understand the effect - you only have to walk down the street with one.

When I skydive, and especially if I have a malfunction, I want all my sensual input to come from what is actually happening to me right now, not from the guitar riff that a songwriter came up with to provoke an emotional reaction.

This is also the reason I don't think you can equate being deaf to skydiving with music - the effect is very different.

[jumpwally 0]

Kinda like the Northwest pilots playing with laptops or what not that over flew Minniapolis,,,,,,,

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[fasted3 0]

Quote

I do not ever wear an iPod except on wingsuit flights.

I was on a wingsuit bigway flock where the orginizers decided on changing the exit on the way up. Everybody got the message except one guy that was rocking out with an Ipod. Not really a big deal, but funny to see the bewildered look on his face when we lined up. Especially of interest to me, since he had posted that he never misses anything because of it. I think it's a case of he don't know what he don't know.
Another valid reason to not use one it that people who do seem standoffish and unfriendly to other people, (to me anyway.) I'd rather be friendly and open to conversation.

But what do I know?