do's and don't of selling stuff on dropzone.com

[cfdflyer 0]

I am getting out of the sport and am wanting to sell my gear and was wanting some advice on selling gear on dropzone.com

[stratostar 5]

Fill out your profile info would be a help and use a broker or escrow agent who can be trusted, like a DZO or Rigger who you can verifiy are legit. When you place your ad write it well and list the size of canopies and HC, SN's # of jumps etc,

Don't sell over seas.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[likestojump 3]

provide good pictures (don't put the helpless "pictures are too big for dz.com") and make an effort to answer your email more than once a day. Also providing a phone number will speed things up immensely.

[PhreeZone 14]

Have photos of all the main components and close ups of any damange/wear that the buyer needs to know about. Also photos of the reserve repack card can help prove repack numbers and serials.

Figure accurate shipping when you want to sell it, don't use the "I'll tell you want FedEx charges me after I ship it" excuse.

Use a good escrow, a Rigger for the buyer is a good choice if you can mutually decide on one. Square 1 will sell your gear on consignment also if you want to go that route.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[SEREJumper 1]

Be as detailed as possible when you write your ad.

Example:

Container make/model, color(s), DOM, harness size/ made for someone X'X", options, jump #'s, 1st/2nd owner?, smoking/non-smoking home, issues/ things that need updating or rigger work, serial #, size canopies it will fit.

Do a little leg work up front for the buyer, remember a lot of people are buying their first rig, so give them all of the information so they don't have to hunt around for it (they may not know where to find it).

Post some pictures on a free website like "photobucket" and provide a link in your ad. Take pictures of every angle and of everything. Digital is great for that.

Good luck with your sale.

We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar

[dragon2 0]

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Don't sell over seas.

Are you paranoid about non-Americans or what? Seriously, there is no reason for that attitude, most non-Americans are pretty decent people Just watch out for any red flags like always, whereever/whomeever you are selling too, but blanket statements like that, well you're missing out on a lot of potential customers especially with the dollar so weak.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[virgin-burner 1]

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Don't sell over seas.

Are you paranoid about non-Americans or what? Seriously, there is no reason for that attitude, most non-Americans are pretty decent people Just watch out for any red flags like always, whereever/whomeever you are selling too, but blanket statements like that, well you're missing out on a lot of potential customers especially with the dollar so weak.

exactly my same thoughts..

dang, i paid for my 10yrs old system about as much as i would of paid over there for a completely new one..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Peej 0]

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Don't sell over seas.

Aw, come on Strato, just cos i'm from Africa doesn't make me Nigerian

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[JanuszPS 0]

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Don't sell over seas.

Are you paranoid about non-Americans or what? .

Exactly, the biggest BS which I can see on DZ.com is that statement...
I paid 4000 Euros in Europe (over $6000) for my Second Hand system due to that type of attitude...

As others, be cooperative while selling and provide as much info as you can. I think much bigger problem has the buyer as usually he/she needs to make the first move (money transfer) and wait for the clearance and shipping. Either I sell or buy I give some personal info about me to make myself less anonymous to the buyer/seller.

good luck
Janusz

Back to Poland... back home.

[likestojump 3]

the "don't sell overseas" is a very close minded statement. It mostly deals with lack of information. When the LAZY seller checks the shipping with UPS/Fedex and gets the $400 rate, the transaction usually goes sour. USPS EMS would be about $150 for a whole rig anywhere in the world. Also, there's this "instant paranoia" of international transactions - but it's completely unfounded, as wire transfer from anywhere in the world is as solid as it would be from anywhere in the US. Some people are terrified of giving away their bank info for a wire - well, there's not much that can be done with that, and I equate that paranoia to not willing to give our your address to a shipper for the fear of "something happening". Kinda stupid, don't you think ?

[danielcroft 2]

I've shipped stuff overseas before (not skydiving gear but same concept). Whether you guys think it's "close minded" or not is beside the point. The real truth of the matter AFAIC is that there are far more unknowns when selling outside your own country (state even!) and some people aren't willing to accept that. If I were buying or selling gear in the US, I could find out about the parties involved with much more ease. I have friends that may actually know people from the particular DZ personally. This means I can get a reference that actually has some weight. If I were going to sell gear (FWIW - I don't own any to sell) overseas, I'd be expecting payment in advance into my paypal account unless a known rigger was going to act as a intermediary. I don't like the idea of sending thousands of dollars worth of gear overseas to unknown people and I really don't give a crap if anyone doesn't like that.

Before anyone tries to bash me with the "Americans are close minded" thing, I'm Australian, I live in the US.

[likestojump 3]

ok mate, but what unknowns are there really to worry about when shipping to other country/state if you get paid upfront ? If you noticed MY write-up suggested a payment prior to shipping the goods.

I am not a big fan of try'n'buy - too many people treat it as a "free rental" or take longshots with gear that is obviously not for them just because it's a no-questions asked return policy (it is NOT !)

[danielcroft 2]

I agree, if I got payment in advance *OR* there was a known rigger (I'd have to speak to them or a friend would) as an intermediary then I'd be ok with it.

For me at least, it's about knowing *something* about the parties on the other end. There've been way too many scams revolving around people who seem completely on the level who are actually just ripping other people off. I tend to be an optimist so I don't like to add the extra variables of not having any way to actually confirm that the person is who they say they are.

My main point is that people who are unhappy that Americans won't sell stuff overseas aren't (IMO) being realistic about the nature of buying and selling over the web (or across borders). I can totally understand that it's frustrating but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to avoid the added risk.

Having said that, I also wouldn't want to pay in advance for the same reasons.

[Remster 24]

I wouldnt say dont sell overseas. BUT, be extra carefull from requests from overseas. One thing is for sure, if selling overseas, I want money inhand before shipping (and that's what I have done when living in Canada and the UK).

Dont accept any deals that sound strange (for any reason: pay more then list, then send money back; buying for someone else; use deal to finance some revolutionary war, etc...)

I'll never sell to someone wanting to use Western Union: that service screams scam to me.

Remster

[stratostar 5]

That is totally the point and it's a lot cheaper to travel with in the USA or Canada to locate and retrive my goods or beat some ass. Just becasue someone holds them self out to be a broker don't mean their not a crook.

I have done a number of deals on here both as a seller and as a broker you can't be lazy and you must do some checking onto the parties your dealing with.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[jumpwally 0]

Actually, your sig line spells it best....

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[fred 0]

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ok mate, but what unknowns are there really to worry about when shipping to other country/state if you get paid upfront ?

Ideally, in any transaction, the seller and buyer are both protected. If the seller is paid upfront, the buyer can easily be screwed (and in fact, the buyer getting screwed is the more common scam).

I won't buy from somebody who wants to be paid upfront. And I don't think anybody should.

We need to find an arrangement where the product is shipped to somebody who has something to lose if the deal goes sour (such as an established business). That somebody can ship it back if they don't receive payment, and can refuse to pay if they don't get the merchandise.

The idea is to empathize with the buyer/seller, and find a third party who doesn't care about either, but will enforce the details of the agreement.

[likestojump 3]

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ok mate, but what unknowns are there really to worry about when shipping to other country/state if you get paid upfront ?

Ideally, in any transaction, the seller and buyer are both protected. If the seller is paid upfront, the buyer can easily be screwed (and in fact, the buyer getting screwed is the more common scam).

I won't buy from somebody who wants to be paid upfront. And I don't think anybody should.

We need to find an arrangement where the product is shipped to somebody who has something to lose if the deal goes sour (such as an established business). That somebody can ship it back if they don't receive payment, and can refuse to pay if they don't get the merchandise.

The idea is to empathize with the buyer/seller, and find a third party who doesn't care about either, but will enforce the details of the agreement.

Bullshit. For every transaction there's a unique set of variables. Some buyers are like you - won't pay until the item is looked over. Some are willing to pay by credit card/paypal since that affords them the protection. Some are willing to go the COD route. Some are happy to send certified funds.

EVERY TRANSACTION IS DIFFERENT.

The bottom line is that you can be made A LOT more comfortable by TALKING to the other party on the phone or having a common acquaintance. Sometimes one of the parties is not willing to do anything but prepayments - and that's fine, they make their own rules and live by them. But please, don't assume that everybody is out to get you OR that everybody is honest.

[dragon2 0]

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For me at least, it's about knowing *something* about the parties on the other end.

Sjeesh how hard is it for a skydiver to look up another skydiver? It's a VERY small world. I'm betting I've met skydivers you've met, and definitely I've met and know some skydivers you know ABOUT. Try contacting the buyer's/seller's dropzone or maybe even just someone from the same country if you can't find out any info about them. I tracked down quite a few skydivers that way.

The point I'm making is that here in say Europe we are quite used to selling across borders, while Americans tend to think (grossly generalizing here but I run into this quite often) that there should be a big fence or something surrounding America to prevent contact with the big bad outside world

Of course if you can sell something locally for a good price I'd go for that too, but I don't see much difference in selling across state borders or to Canada and selling overseas.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[danielcroft 2]

That's why I also said across borders. The reason it's more accepted in Europe is because proximity makes it pretty easy to have a higher comfort level with inter-country transactions.

To be honest, I don't trust some random DZ any more than I trust some random skydiver. That's why I was saying that I would want a personal reference. That is kind of what you said anyway. You may know someone I know, if so, there's no issue. I can have my friend vouch for you after talking to you and I'm good to go.

What I'm not willing to do is send gear off into space and hope for the best. From the other side of the coin, I feel the same way, I wouldn't be willing to pay for something upfront with no way to get my money back. As likestojump said, that's why paypal or a CC is the way to go because you can get insurance.

Yes, we're a small community and people will prey on our trust of each other. My wanting to confirm your identity through trusted sources isn't suggesting that you're dishonest, it's protecting our trust in our community.

[chrismgtis 0]

Be willing to ship your rig to a trustworthy rigger to have him inspect it. The guy I purchased from did that for me and I ended up buying it from him.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Fill out your profile info would be a help and use a broker or escrow agent who can be trusted, like a DZO or Rigger who you can verifiy are legit. When you place your ad write it well and list the size of canopies and HC, SN's # of jumps etc,

Don't sell over seas.

With paypal, it's painless to receive payments from over-seas (although I think I got charged a small cross-boarder transfer fee the last time I sold anything over seas on top of the 3%). You just need a delivery service that provides confirmation so the buyer can't claim non-receipt.

With USPS, if you can fit what you're shipping into a maximum sized box for the country (it varies - with some countries you get 79 inches maximum length + girth; other countries allow 108 inches) you'll only be charged for weight, it will usually get there in 3-5 business days, and you'll get a tracking number so you can prove receipt to paypal.

As long as what you're selling is expensive enough for USPS global express shipping to be relatively reasonable ($100 to ship 20 pounds to Europe is reasonable for a $1000 sale) the combination works great.

A little grovelling on the Internet starting at the USPS web site will turn up what you need for each country; generally the right US customs forms plus an invoice in duplicate or triplicate.

Rules vary on how import duty and VAT are applied to used goods.

Most countries have serious tax problems (up to 20% of the total value including shipping). USPS lists the insured value on the shipping forms. So if you're going to send it and insure it (I had one package disappear after departed the US) the buyer is going to pay taxes on the actual value of the transaction.

[CarloC 0]

Could you please tell me what is the matter of selling stuff for a over seas skydiver?

All my gear i bought trough Dropzone.com and i paid using PayPal and everything went great.
I did great business and made a few friends with this.

Sounds like lame prejudice that i came across a few times in the adds.

If you sell overseas, ask for PayPal and wait for the money to clear, check his background here at dropzone.com.

If the buyer is from the U.S use a rigger as a scrow and you will not have any issues.

Happy selling!

[stratostar 5]

The main reason I siad that was becasue if you don't state themn in your ad on here you get flooded with all kinds of emails from the scams. The OP asked the do's and don't, if you or others want to business over seas then by all means go head and do so, if you get ripped off then don't come back on here and be one of the many posters we've seen over the years crying and bitchen about getting ripped off or taken by a scam.

If your deal go without a hitch and you make a new friend....more power to you!

I myself will not sell high dollar gear over seas and it will state that in my ad and any and all emails asking me to do so will be trashed.

End of story.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[likestojump 3]

by doing that you are missing out alot of potential customers. Just so you now the scammers could care less what your ad says. I am confident they use automatic programs to send responses to your ad, nobody really reads it.

of course, it's your choice.

and the many posters we saw over the years getting scammed are the ones who kept "buying" $5K rigs for $2K and doing Western Union payments to Italy, UK etc w/o any kind of information verification or phone calls.