Euroman 0 #1 August 4, 2008 In what containers can you install a Skyhook? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karlm 0 #2 August 4, 2008 UPT - Vector Sunpath _ Javelin Both have the SkuHook (TM) Mirage has the DRX System And that it .... no other containers to my knowledge have the SkyHook or similar device Better never to have met you in my dream than to wake and reach for hands that are not there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #3 August 4, 2008 QuoteAnd that it .... no other containers to my knowledge have the SkyHook or similar device This may be hearsay, but last I hear Strong Enterprises is on their way too....=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,046 #4 August 4, 2008 Hi Unstable, I received an email from Ted Strong not too long ago and it indicated that they are working on a design of their own, not a SkyHook. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #5 August 4, 2008 "Sky Anchor" if I remember correctly, is what they'll call it.... =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #6 August 4, 2008 One of the best featurs in the Skyhook system is the "Collins Lanyard". Be Safe !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synapse 0 #7 August 4, 2008 Aerodyne is working on incorporating the Skyhook system in their contains as well. However, to my knowledge, they do not have an expected release date announced yet. -synThey who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydude89 0 #8 August 5, 2008 I have a new mirage container coming in 2 weeks hopefully, and was just informed that i wont be getting the drx with it ,as its not being released yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #9 August 5, 2008 QuoteI have a new mirage container coming in 2 weeks hopefully, and was just informed that i wont be getting the drx with it ,as its not being released yet. But you were able to order the DRX as an option?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydude89 0 #10 August 5, 2008 I was able to order it, but wont be receiving it because its still going through the legal process of them being allowed to sell it. I will be able to ship my container back and have it installed at a later date once they are allowed to install it. LAWYERS there holding every thing up by the sounds of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 August 6, 2008 During the 2007 PIA Symposium, Relative Workshop/Unite Parachute Technologies announced that they had sold Skyhook licenses to eight other manufacturers. The license process includes video of 30 test drops, etc. To date, only Vectors and Javelins (another branch of UPT) are available with Skyhooks. Mike Johnson (of Mirage Systems) described some of the difficulties that he experienced drop-testing Mirages with Skyhooks. The next thing I knew, MJ had moved on to UPT and Ward Hessing was finalizing the fancy RSL in the Mirage. I am not sure if Mirage's latest RSL includes Skyhook hardware???? Aerodyne also announced that they were planning to introduce Skyhook, but the date is vague. Meanwhile, the concept of Main Assisted Reserve Deployment has been around since about 1990. The Sorcerer BASE rig was the first to use a main riser to pull the reserve free-bag out of the container. Basic Air Concept (in France) sold a similar RSL in their ADVANCE containers for many years, but recently dis-continued??? Apparently Eric Fradet had a hand in designing the fancy French RSL, but Jerome Bunker has been running the BASIC factory for many years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 0 #12 August 6, 2008 QuoteTo date, only Vectors and Javelins (another branch of UPT) are available with Skyhooks. UPT and SunPath are two separate companies (in the sport market) and are only partners when it comes to Military containers (through CPS). It was because of our Military relationship, that SunPath was able to figure out how to put the SkyHook into their Sport systems. Everyone (all container manufacturers) is welcome to license the skyhook from Bill Booth granted all the testing is completed and submitted to him for approval. Mark Klingelhoefer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #13 August 6, 2008 Mike should be Jeff. Also the skyhook lanyard must be on the right side & a "Collins Lanyard" is a must. To add the skyhook system to some h/c in the way Bill Booth & UPT like it to be done will force the other h/c mfg. to run changes in the h/c, reserve ripcord, reserve container inner flaps like Sun Path did and also payment to UPT. Safe Rigging !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #14 August 6, 2008 Quote Also the skyhook lanyard must be on the right side & a "Collins Lanyard" is a must. Hi Shlomo, I saw in another post where you said the Collin's Lanyard was the best part of the Skyhook system, and then this quote above. I'm curious as to why it is a "must" when there are literally tens of thousands of rigs (tandem, student, sport, military) in the field with standard RSL's and no Collin's Lanyard and there doesn't seem to be a rash of broken RSL riser accidents. Maybe I haven't been keeping as close of an eye on incidents as others have, but I don't see it as being a "must have"- more of a "nice to have" with current riser specs. The LOR-2 system was around for years before the Collin's Lanyard to prevent deploying the reserve into 1/2 a main, but it never seemed to catch on with most manufacturers. Was that because it was deemed "not necessary", or maybe the marketing push wasn't quite there? BTW, the question isn't directed solely at Shlomo, if anyone else wants to put in their $.02, feel freeVSE on Facebook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #15 August 6, 2008 Thanks for that. I said "ONE of the best" & NOT the best. I think the "Collins Lanyard" is a great idea. Yes, a lot of rigs are with RSL & no Collins Lanyard but there are few reasons: 1. The present configuration is new & started when the Sigma came out. before that we had the Vector 1 & 2 Tandem retrofit "Collins Lanyard" with the 900 lb. Dacron line from right main riser to the 2 yellow cables. 2. It is a patented system & you need UPT's approval to use it. ($$$) 3. Most RSL are on the left & the "Collins Lanyard" is on the right side from all technical reasons - New "INFINITY" is on the right as well - think about it. 4. Most left side mfg. will have to change the yoke area & move the RSL to the right side with all needed changes. 5. Old Vector 3 with RSL does not have it as well - that's the way it was made BUT today each Vector 3 or Javelin with an RSL have the "Collins Lanyard" as part of the RSL system. These rigs can also be "Skyhook" retrofited by an UPT / Sun Path Skyhook retrofit approved Master rigger. We always look forward for better & SAFER systems & the M.R.A.D system with a "Collins Lanyard" is the best setting. Regarding main riser - they do not fail so often BUT there were some cases in sport & tandem rigs. Even all think that the chances for failure are close to "Zero" it is still good to have just "in case of" you never know what will be on your next jump, with all new lines & ZP fabric & high speeds & low quality of webbing, webbing "over used" or just an uneven hard main deployment - this system can save you. Better risers will fail before the harness or the skydiver body will fail - main risers are like a fuse in the deployment system & if the RSL side will fail you might be saved from 2 canopie out. Having tons of Tandem, Students, sport rigs on the market without the system does mean anything - it was not there at the old times, some mfg. will not change the h/c they mfg. - that's all. There are also Tandem Instructors that are jumping Strong & other tandem systems with the RSL "OFF" - does it is "Smart" ? to my opinon - NO !!! RSL is a simple device that can save you at a point that from any reason after a "cut away" your action might be slow or involved with "Get Stable" at low altitude or other issues at "mid low" altitude. Skyhook or any M.A.R.D is better & with the "Collines Lanyard" is even far better. L.O.R 2 - is a good system - I worked with is a lot & saw it in action - I think the reason it never moved out of PdF rigs is the patent & the cosmetic issue & the use of very specific 1.5 mm double Cypres loop only from PdF BUT it was a "good" advanced improvment in case of one riser failure. Jump Shack - both side RSL on Racers & Recer Tandems - never went out to other h/c. Kelly, not all mfg. from all kind of reason agree about all it could be: 1. We did not innvate it so it is ??????????? 2. We have to run changes - cost ? sales ? no value. 3. We think that our is better ! why to change ? 4. We do not like to pay $$$ to the innovator or the patent holder. 5. We will innovate a better one - it might be. 6. Other reasons. Well - time to stop. Be Safe !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #16 August 7, 2008 Quote Kelly, not all mfg. from all kind of reason agree about all it could be: 1. We did not innvate it so it is ??????????? 2. We have to run changes - cost ? sales ? no value. 3. We think that our is better ! why to change ? 4. We do not like to pay $$$ to the innovator or the patent holder. 5. We will innovate a better one - it might be. 6. Other reasons. Well - time to stop. Be Safe !!! Shlomo, You left out the main reason innovations are marketed and promoted. Market share and profit. Booth himself said the skyhook wasn't ready for sport rigs when he introduced it at the symposium. But the sales office was calling customers with rigs in production and offering it. Bill was also one of the only anti RSL manuf. until he had a marketing advantage. Bill has offered many innovations to the sport. But many also killed lots of people until the bugs were worked out in post marketing changes.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eric.fradet 17 #17 August 7, 2008 L.O.R 2 - is a good system - I worked with is a lot & saw it in action - I think the reason it never moved out of PdF rigs is the patent & the cosmetic issue & the use of very specific 1.5 mm double Cypres loop only from PdF BUT it was a "good" advanced improvment in case of one riser failure. Quote LOR 2 is the ONLY design which guarantees the reserve will not activate until the main has been totally released (not the case with a Collins lanyard associated with a left riser equipped with a three rings systems out of use). The 20 years patent is over now, but actually there is one other disadvantage on the LOR 2 beside the ones Shlomo wrote, you cannot accomodate a mard device with the LOR 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KellyF 16 #18 August 7, 2008 Quote Yes, a lot of rigs are with RSL & no Collins Lanyard but there are few reasons: 1. The present configuration is new & started when the Sigma came out. before that we had the Vector 1 & 2 Tandem retrofit "Collins Lanyard" with the 900 lb. Dacron line from right main riser to the 2 yellow cables. 2. It is a patented system & you need UPT's approval to use it. ($$$) 3. Most RSL are on the left & the "Collins Lanyard" is on the right side from all technical reasons - New "INFINITY" is on the right as well - think about it. I have thought about it- actually 8-9 years ago I called Bill and asked him about licensing the Collin's Lanyard, and the answer was basically "no". I forget what his reasoning was at the time. So as of today, the Collin's Lanyard is only available as packaged with the skyhook. Quote We always look forward for better & SAFER systems & the M.R.A.D system with a "Collins Lanyard" is the best setting. Regarding main riser - they do not fail so often BUT there were some cases in sport & tandem rigs. Even all think that the chances for failure are close to "Zero" it is still good to have just "in case of" you never know what will be on your next jump, with all new lines & ZP fabric & high speeds & low quality of webbing, webbing "over used" or just an uneven hard main deployment - this system can save you. To some extent, I agree with you, but if you take the "anythying we can do to save people" to it's logical end, no body is going to be jumping out of airplanes, let alone flying in them I guess when I read that a feature is a "must have", I have visions of a lawyer building up a case against a DZ that had an accident with someone wearing one of their student rigs. They come here doing research, see someone with your credentials saying that something is a "must have", and then discovering that that DZ's student rigs don't have it, and building a case that the DZ has "dangerous and outdated" equipment. Quote RSL is a simple device that can save you at a point that from any reason after a "cut away" your action might be slow or involved with "Get Stable" at low altitude or other issues at "mid low" altitude. Skyhook or any M.A.R.D is better & with the "Collines Lanyard" is even far better. Agreed, except for the Collin's Lanyard making it "far better". The difference in safety on sport rigs between having a Collin's Lanyard and not, all else being equal, is fractions of a percent. I think everyone will agree that the the least safe part of a harness/container system is the jumper wearing it, and that because something new comes along that is "safer" doesn't make everything before it "dangerous". I know that's not your intention, I just want people to think about what they're buying, instead of "buying into the hype" and then thinking that they just need to pull their cutaway handle if they have to get out of the plane at 1000'VSE on Facebook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zephyr 0 #19 May 5, 2011 QuoteIn what containers can you install a Skyhook? I know this thread is nearly three years old, so here's an update. I asked the same question about sport containers and this is the reply from UPT Vector that I got via email on April 4, 2011: QuoteThe Skyhook is currently only available on Vectors, Javelins and Icon containers. For tandem, it Quoteis only available on the Sigma tandem rig. To break it down: UPT Vector 3 Micron Vector 3 M-Series Sigma Student Vector SE Sun Path Javelin Odyssey Student Odyssey Aerodyne Icon Sport (not available on Icon Student?). Here are their sites for easy reference: http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1 http://sunpath.com/web_en/ http://www.flyaerodyne.com/fly/ . Which container would you prefer? And why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mchamp 1 #20 May 5, 2011 3 years later and the DRX is still not available/out yetFor info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,046 #21 May 5, 2011 Hi Zephyr, I wonder why they did not list this one: http://www.marsjev.cz/vyrobky/sportovni-padaky/real-x-with-skyhook.html JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pchapman 261 #22 May 5, 2011 Quote Aerodyne Icon Sport (not available on Icon Student?). I think but can't confirm that both can have the Skyhook. The DZ I'm at, has bought a bunch of new Icons for student rigs and rental rigs, and all will have Skyhooks. (Hard to find anything at all about the Skyhook on Aerodyne's site.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zephyr 0 #23 May 5, 2011 QuoteQuote Aerodyne Icon Sport (not available on Icon Student?). I think but can't confirm that both can have the Skyhook. The DZ I'm at, has bought a bunch of new Icons for student rigs and rental rigs, and all will have Skyhooks. (Hard to find anything at all about the Skyhook on Aerodyne's site.) Yes, it is available on the Icon Student for $250. I just attempted to order one on their website. The forum won't let me edit my previous post to reflect this though, so I'll just paste it here. Thanks :) To break it down: UPT Vector 3 Micron Vector 3 M-Series Sigma Student Vector SE Sun Path Javelin Odyssey Student Odyssey Aerodyne Icon Sport Icon Student. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites michalm21 0 #24 May 5, 2011 QuoteHi Zephyr, I wonder why they did not list this one: http://www.marsjev.cz/vyrobky/sportovni-padaky/real-x-with-skyhook.html JerryBaumchen Interesting how from pics, manual and coloring site... RealX looks just like a Vector... http://www.marsjev.cz/products/coloring-real-x-en.htm?lang=en manual:http://www.marsjev.cz/editor/filestore/File/Manualy%20Anglicky/Real-X.pdf ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zephyr 0 #25 May 5, 2011 Quote... The DZ I'm at, has bought a bunch of new Icons for student rigs and rental rigs, and all will have Skyhooks... pchapman, Do you know why your DZ chose the Icon Student over the other rigs? Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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KellyF 16 #18 August 7, 2008 Quote Yes, a lot of rigs are with RSL & no Collins Lanyard but there are few reasons: 1. The present configuration is new & started when the Sigma came out. before that we had the Vector 1 & 2 Tandem retrofit "Collins Lanyard" with the 900 lb. Dacron line from right main riser to the 2 yellow cables. 2. It is a patented system & you need UPT's approval to use it. ($$$) 3. Most RSL are on the left & the "Collins Lanyard" is on the right side from all technical reasons - New "INFINITY" is on the right as well - think about it. I have thought about it- actually 8-9 years ago I called Bill and asked him about licensing the Collin's Lanyard, and the answer was basically "no". I forget what his reasoning was at the time. So as of today, the Collin's Lanyard is only available as packaged with the skyhook. Quote We always look forward for better & SAFER systems & the M.R.A.D system with a "Collins Lanyard" is the best setting. Regarding main riser - they do not fail so often BUT there were some cases in sport & tandem rigs. Even all think that the chances for failure are close to "Zero" it is still good to have just "in case of" you never know what will be on your next jump, with all new lines & ZP fabric & high speeds & low quality of webbing, webbing "over used" or just an uneven hard main deployment - this system can save you. To some extent, I agree with you, but if you take the "anythying we can do to save people" to it's logical end, no body is going to be jumping out of airplanes, let alone flying in them I guess when I read that a feature is a "must have", I have visions of a lawyer building up a case against a DZ that had an accident with someone wearing one of their student rigs. They come here doing research, see someone with your credentials saying that something is a "must have", and then discovering that that DZ's student rigs don't have it, and building a case that the DZ has "dangerous and outdated" equipment. Quote RSL is a simple device that can save you at a point that from any reason after a "cut away" your action might be slow or involved with "Get Stable" at low altitude or other issues at "mid low" altitude. Skyhook or any M.A.R.D is better & with the "Collines Lanyard" is even far better. Agreed, except for the Collin's Lanyard making it "far better". The difference in safety on sport rigs between having a Collin's Lanyard and not, all else being equal, is fractions of a percent. I think everyone will agree that the the least safe part of a harness/container system is the jumper wearing it, and that because something new comes along that is "safer" doesn't make everything before it "dangerous". I know that's not your intention, I just want people to think about what they're buying, instead of "buying into the hype" and then thinking that they just need to pull their cutaway handle if they have to get out of the plane at 1000'VSE on Facebook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zephyr 0 #19 May 5, 2011 QuoteIn what containers can you install a Skyhook? I know this thread is nearly three years old, so here's an update. I asked the same question about sport containers and this is the reply from UPT Vector that I got via email on April 4, 2011: QuoteThe Skyhook is currently only available on Vectors, Javelins and Icon containers. For tandem, it Quoteis only available on the Sigma tandem rig. To break it down: UPT Vector 3 Micron Vector 3 M-Series Sigma Student Vector SE Sun Path Javelin Odyssey Student Odyssey Aerodyne Icon Sport (not available on Icon Student?). Here are their sites for easy reference: http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1 http://sunpath.com/web_en/ http://www.flyaerodyne.com/fly/ . Which container would you prefer? And why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mchamp 1 #20 May 5, 2011 3 years later and the DRX is still not available/out yetFor info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,046 #21 May 5, 2011 Hi Zephyr, I wonder why they did not list this one: http://www.marsjev.cz/vyrobky/sportovni-padaky/real-x-with-skyhook.html JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #22 May 5, 2011 Quote Aerodyne Icon Sport (not available on Icon Student?). I think but can't confirm that both can have the Skyhook. The DZ I'm at, has bought a bunch of new Icons for student rigs and rental rigs, and all will have Skyhooks. (Hard to find anything at all about the Skyhook on Aerodyne's site.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zephyr 0 #23 May 5, 2011 QuoteQuote Aerodyne Icon Sport (not available on Icon Student?). I think but can't confirm that both can have the Skyhook. The DZ I'm at, has bought a bunch of new Icons for student rigs and rental rigs, and all will have Skyhooks. (Hard to find anything at all about the Skyhook on Aerodyne's site.) Yes, it is available on the Icon Student for $250. I just attempted to order one on their website. The forum won't let me edit my previous post to reflect this though, so I'll just paste it here. Thanks :) To break it down: UPT Vector 3 Micron Vector 3 M-Series Sigma Student Vector SE Sun Path Javelin Odyssey Student Odyssey Aerodyne Icon Sport Icon Student. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michalm21 0 #24 May 5, 2011 QuoteHi Zephyr, I wonder why they did not list this one: http://www.marsjev.cz/vyrobky/sportovni-padaky/real-x-with-skyhook.html JerryBaumchen Interesting how from pics, manual and coloring site... RealX looks just like a Vector... http://www.marsjev.cz/products/coloring-real-x-en.htm?lang=en manual:http://www.marsjev.cz/editor/filestore/File/Manualy%20Anglicky/Real-X.pdf ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zephyr 0 #25 May 5, 2011 Quote... The DZ I'm at, has bought a bunch of new Icons for student rigs and rental rigs, and all will have Skyhooks... pchapman, Do you know why your DZ chose the Icon Student over the other rigs? Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
