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kawisixer01

Packing hooks

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I have a question about packing. The DZ where i have pretty much always jumped ,and where I recently attained my A license, has hooks for hanging your canopy to pack. I am just curious why this is not more widespread? I have packed over the shoulder but really find it alot easier to to use the hooks and allows a cleaner pack job and more thorough inspection of everything as you are packing. In my opinion this makes packing safer. so in this safety driven sport why don't more DZ's have packing hooks? they aren't expensive by any means. When I have asked around it almost seems like a pride thing or something like that. Input anyone?

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with 42-something jumps you are probably not the worlds "fastest" packer. there will be a moment when you think "what did i ever need a hook for?" even when packing a brand new 400 squarefeet tandem-main
happy packing :)

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

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I have a question about packing. The DZ where i have pretty much always jumped ,and where I recently attained my A license, has hooks for hanging your canopy to pack. I am just curious why this is not more widespread? I have packed over the shoulder but really find it alot easier to to use the hooks and allows a cleaner pack job and more thorough inspection of everything as you are packing. In my opinion this makes packing safer. so in this safety driven sport why don't more DZ's have packing hooks? they aren't expensive by any means. When I have asked around it almost seems like a pride thing or something like that. Input anyone?




Exactly what feuergnom said.

I started jumping at a DZ that used packing hooks, and made my first few packjobs on them. As a smaller guy, it really helped me out when packing a 170sf main.

However, once I started jumping at other places, I realized that I'd better learn to pack over my shoulder...seeing as how it's a pain to bring your own hook with you. :D I watched the PD packing video (& 'Pack Like a Pro') a few times, pausing it and working on different sections.

It wasn't long before I decided I liked packing over my shoulder better, once I got a better feel for where to look for what line group, etc.

As to your original question, I think most places don't have them just because packing over your shoulder isn't that tough, and once you get decent at it, it really doesn't make that big of a difference...unless you're packing a massive canopy (relative to your body size). Not to mention, when the packing hangar gets crowded, you can cut more corners without having to line everyone up to a hook.

Good luck!
Signatures are the new black.

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When I start showing a beginner how to pack, I use a packing hook. It is easier for the beginner since he/she is hand free. gathering the set of lines and clean the folds from the front while using a hook is easier. When the beginner starts to understand what is going on he/she will eventually do the transfer using his shoulder. For packing a reserve I use the hook. But the most important is to keep the lines at the center of the pack job as much as possible.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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Thats part of where I have difficulty. I have a nearly brand new spectre. I've been trying a bit at home. i do fine at flaking and such. The only difficulty i have is that I can't easily roll the nose in as deep as i have when using a hook, and I have a hell of a time when it comes to getting a nice tight roll when I'm forming the cacoon. I'm sure once i get the hang of it it'll be like anything else i've had a problem with in skydivng. I'll get ok and wonder "what the hell was my major malfuntion?" ;)

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You're using a Spectre and rolling the nose?
Why? Hopefully you are not blindly doing that just because someone told you to without doing your own checking or research.

The manufacturer-recommended straight up pro pack works quite well.

Are you getting weird openings without rolling? Out of trim can cause weird openings.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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I'm with Pops... there's no reason to roll the nose on a Spectre. I have over 450 jumps on mine, never did a thing to the nose and the openings were consistently great.

About the tail rolling for the cocoon... when you have the rig over your right shoulder, put a tight little roll at the top. Hold it there with your left hand. Then take your right hand as far down as you can reach, and start cocooning the tail, always pulling toward the floor as you roll the fabric. Use your hip to pin the tail to keep it from unrolling as you rotate your hand. When you lay the canopy down, do it neatly, like you are laying a baby on the floor, left hand still at the top, right hand at the bottom, lift it up and lay down.

It's easier to show you than try to describe it.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

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I roll the nose in first because the PD manual i have says to if the canopy is new, and secondly because a couple of the packers at my DZ said to when I asked them if the spectre required it. I will pack it without the nose rolled in next time and see how it opens. It has seemed like it was taking a little long to open. Thanks for your input guys I do appreciate it.

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I roll the nose in first because the PD manual i have says to if the canopy is new,



Is that the generic PD manual which was probably written when the Sabre1 was brand new?

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and secondly because a couple of the packers at my DZ said to when I asked them if the spectre required it.



My opinion? They're talking bollocks. I don't think there are any modern general purpose main canopies which require the nose rolling, and the Spectre is one of the softest opening main canopies there is.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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>>so in this safety driven sport why don't more DZ's have packing hooks?
It's not really a "safety" issue and you'll eventually learn to pack over your shoulder with confidence if you have the desire.

Here's some history to help you understand the evolution of packing.

Up until the late 1970s we all jumped round parachutes as both mains and reserves. In order to pack a round parachute you first stretched it out, anchored down both ends (the harness on one end and the apex, or top of the parachute, on the other) and applied tension so you could manipulate the lines and fabric easier. Round reserves were usually always packed on a long narrow wooden table and sometimes so were round mains. These tables had tensioning devices and every DZ in those days had a few packing tables for jumpers to use. They were also shady places to stow your gear under and at night you could sleep on them.

But of course there were never enough tables for everyone between loads so you could also pack your round on the ground. But then you need help for the tension part. So we kept a small loop of parachute cord permanently attached to the apex and with another free loop and a carabineer we'd hook the apex to something stationary. And most of the time that was the bumper of a car. Of course this was when cars actually had those kinds of bumpers. But you still needed someway to anchor and apply tension to the harness end of the system and that's why God created women. (Kidding!)

In those days there were some woman jumpers of course, but nowhere near the number that jump nowadays. But there were always plenty of girls on the DZ, as in wives, girlfriends, and the groupie types. And the phrase, "Hey Sweetie, would you hold tension for me," was a natural pick-up line I'm very sad to say went by the wayside. They would step in-between the two line groups and with the yoke of the rig (the top part of the harness) in the small of their backs they'd simply lean backwards and this applied the tension you needed. And at least you had someone nice to talk to while you packed and at best it turned into another use for those packing tables at night.

Then ram-air (square) main canopies came out. There was a transitional period from about 1975 to the early 1980s when you'd see a mix of round and square mains on the DZ. And while everyone realized how much better, and more fun, square parachutes were, they were still considered for experienced jumpers only and the rule of the day was you needed to make a 100 round jumps before being allowed to use a square.

I remember my first square jump after one hundred and some odd round jumps like it was yesterday and to use the vernacular of the day, it was a real mind-blower. And with no other point of reference it's an event that's lost on first time jumpers today.

But then we had to learn a new way of packing. And, of course, there was no such thing as paid packers in those days, but some wives or girlfriends would fill that roll if they weren't the break a nail types.

Overall, packing squares was much easier than packing rounds. While you still needed a bit of tension you didn't need to hook up the canopy and apply it mechanically like on rounds. The pack jobs we used on these early squares were called either flat packs or roll packs. And they were both done without assistance with the canopy laid out on the ground. They are easy to imagine as the flat pack is basically accordion folding the canopy from one end to the other, and the roll pack is basically just that, rolling both ends of the canopy in towards the center.

There was also a third but less popular way of packing a square and it was called a trash pack. While the flat and roll packers were more fastidious with their folding, pleating, and tucking - the trash packer would basically just pick the canopy up, shake it out, fold the tail around the bundle, or sometimes not even that, then shove it all in the bag and go jump. And ironically out of those three methods the one that really survived was indeed the trash pack. It was refined and became the very pro-pack you are talking about now.

So now we already experienced jumpers were on to learning a third way to pack. But experienced or not the first time you looked down into the bowels of square canopy it was a big mystery as to what's really going on in there. But compared to the previous methods of packing it made more sense. Instead of the canopy having to unfold or unroll after reaching line stretch it simply had to spread out.

(Note: I'm omitting the evolution of smaller higher aspect ratio canopies, and the effect they had on packing techniques in order to keep this simpler).

By the early 1990s just about everyone was turning to pro-packing. But the transition wasn't completely painless. It had became cool to pro-pack and sort of wank to do it any other way. So many folks rushed to learn it to the point they could put the canopy over their shoulders with style but they just stuck their hands down inside and fiddled around without knowing what the hell they were doing. And we suddenly had a sport wide outbreak of line overs malfunctions on canopies we thought had no built in line over mode like rounds have. It took awhile, but we eventually figured out we were packing the line overs into the canopy while trying to learn pro-packing. This was right around the time the first packing hooks appeared and the line over problems diminished.

The advantages of a hook were you could visualize the insides of the canopy better which helped a lot when first learning. And it was easier for shorter people at first, but that's really better fixed with through technique. Also, if you were lazy, or an Instructor, you could take a break to do something else, like debrief a student while your canopy was hanging. When it's over your shoulder you need to finish at least that part of it.

One side benefit to packing hooks is DZs that didn't provide much shade suddenly had to scramble to erect structures so there were places to hang the hooks. And now every DZ today, even though the hooks are gone, has to have a shaded packing area.

But there was a downside to packing hooks. And mainly it was finding yourself unpacked somewhere without a hook. This could be between multiple demo jumps or just at some smaller DZ you were visiting where they didn't have them. And people who couldn't pack without a hook, were, and still are, referred to as "hook cripples." In fact when hooks became un-cool it was right around the time paid packers started to become very popular. Sometimes I think it wasn't a coincidence that some hook cripples simply gave up and started paying up.

So get off the hook as soon as you can. And there are ways to make it easier. First off your canopy colors come into play when first learning to pro-pack. It really helps to have the center cell a different color than any of the other cells so just by looking you know it's the center of the canopy and every other color is pushed out to the side from there. Knowing how to group these sections comes easy with a bit of experience. But hey it costs money to practice in the sky, but it's free on the ground. So there's no reason you can't practice at home.

One thing that makes it harder is we used to learn to pack just by watching other people do it. But you just can't figure out what people are doing inside the canopy while pro-packing. Also while your Instructor or Coach should teach you the rudiments of packing that gets glossed over these days like the way we teach people how not to drown. So while it may be easier to totally go the paid packer route you can still have the same demo problems or simply be screwed when there's no packer around.

What I'm going to say now I hope you'll understand the right way. Don't be too afraid of screwing up. As long as the suspension and control lines are clear, the brakes are set, the slider is up, and the canopy is connected to the harness correctly you can mess up the inside folds a lot and the pack job will still work. Of course that changes as the canopy type becomes more high performance, but I doubt you're there yet. And by the time you do start jumping higher performance canopies you'll have over the shoulder pro-packing down cold.

NickD :)

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Don't worry too much, we all felt the same way when we were roocky at packing new ZP canopies.

Here is my advise: When the flacking of the canopy is done and after I have wrapped it with the tail I lay it on the the ground preferably on a carpet then: I milk the air out while laying on it and stay on it until it is in the deployment bag. How I do that:
1) Laying on the canopy allowed the air to get out but the canopy is still like a V shape pointing toward the lines. In order to get it like a "sausage" fold at once one side after bleeding the air out with your hands then tilting your body you do the other side (you are still laying completely on the canopy).
2) Back up a bit while still laying on the canopy and slide toward the lines and fold one third of the canopy (bridle line side) UNDER. To do so place your hands under the "sausage" where the fold will be done and hold the opposite side of the "sausage" in order to avoid spreading the canopy.
3) All the time with hands and fingers keep the folds thight and narrow since they want to spread out.
4) Back up towards the lines again (still laying on the "sausage") and fold UPWARD another third of the canopy including the first one which was UNDER and which is now coming on the top when doing the second fold.
5) you have now a 3 fold "sausage" canopy ready for the D bag. Since you are still laying on it you can relax your arms, the folds will not spread and when ready get the D-bag under the 3 folds and put one side in by pulling on the flap under and on the rubber bands attachments while pushing the folded canopy inside de bag.
6) tilt you body to squeeze down the side already made and proceed the same way the other side always applying pressure with your chest on the bag at this moment. Remember, at all time keep the folds narrow with hand and fingers.
7) make sure the folded canopy is as much as possible in the D bag, apply pressure with a hand on the top and the line side of the D bag and get on your knees.
8) get the D bag up with lines on top and while holding the closing flap do the little S fold with the canopy part near the lines and push it in the D bag. All the time have a hand on the line side of the D bag to keep the fabric squeezed in the D bag. Then apply pressure on the flap and thread the first rubber band then the second

It takes a minimum of practice but the advantage of this method is that you get a very good fabric and fold control, your two hands are free, you can stop to relax without having the fabric bulging out and you will get less frustrated. It is not the fastest method but a relaxing one and it works.
Trying my best to explain how I do it. Good luck. (that method was demonstrated at the WFFC at Rantoul by a load organizer named Winsor)
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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