tictoc 0 #1 August 28, 2005 Ok so after taking a year away from Skydive Oregon because I did not agree with the way one of my friends was treated. I decided that I would like to see some of my friends again. I thought that every thing was cool between me and SDO as I left quietly with out making any type of scene. So after two great days of skydiving at SDO’s bogie I ran into one of my friends JR who I had not seen in over a year. Now JR is some one that I have taken on several tandems, and I was the first person to do several things with him. I have also never charged JR for any of my services, only the slot on the plane. The way I see it he is just another skydiver. I was also the one who initiated trying to get him an A license. JR is handicapped, can only do tandems and is in my opinion a great guy. In talking with him I found out that he was about to do his 100th jump. So I went to my supposable good friend Jim Straight (owner of body sport) because he was currently organizing the belly flyers for the bogie and asked if we might be able to do something special for JR. Jim replied with an ecstatic yes. So after Jim talked with some one he told me that I had to be removed from the list because he was requested to keep it to 6 people. I was fine with this until I saw the 6 people who were on the jump. Some of witch have absolutely no instructor rating and others who had never even jumped with Jr. I went to my supposedly good friend Jim and told him that I was offended by the people who were chosen to be on the dive. He replied that the decision was not all his and refused to tell me who else was in on it. So it aperies to not have had anything to do with having to keep it to 6 people. I also went to JR and told him that I was upset that I would not be able to be on his 100th dive. He told me that he did not have any say in who was to be jumping with him on his 100th jump. So I believe that it was some one in the SDO management who made the decision (for whatever reason) that I would not get to jump with my friend. I think that this whole situation is messed up and I am so p****d off right now. I refuse to let these people tell me who I can and can’t jump with. I’m a TI& AFFI for f**k sake. So my question is. Are you the type of person who allows your friends to be treated badly just so you can fit in? Or are you the type to stand up and say something? I know this is long and I may not have all of the facts but I just have to let it out.-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #2 August 28, 2005 QuoteAre you the type of person who allows your friends to be treated badly just so you can fit in? Or are you the type to stand up and say something? I know this is long and I may not have all of the facts but I just have to let it out. Anybody who knows me alrady knows the answer to this one. If something is messed up I am the first one to start yelling BULLSHIT! I am very vocal with my opinions and sometimes it doesnt do any good but at least people know where I stand on issues. I have no comment or opinions on your situation here. I dont know what the problem was with this jump. Hope you get things figured out.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #3 August 28, 2005 If a friend is being unfairly treated, ill stand up and defend them. However judging when the treatment is unfair depends on the circumstances - he could have been horrible to someone and was being told off for it which would be fair. But if not, i would stand up for him regardless of what others thought. Thats how you find out who your true friends are and aren't Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #4 August 28, 2005 Sounds like typical belly flying politics. I'm not knocking bellying flying or belly flyers here, but politics seems to have a way of rearing its ugly head on FS loads. If I were on a load and someone tried to pull that BS and I knew about it, I'd scratch off the load in a heartbeat. I wouldn't assume that everyone on the load knew what was going on, though. If everyone on the load did know what was going on, then who would want to jump with them anyway? Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tictoc 0 #5 August 28, 2005 Well I was not being rude to any one. I was simply trying to jump with my friend on his 100th jump and give him another first. If it was not for me trying to get something together this never would have even happened because the people who knew evidently did not even care. No one but me, Jim, JR and whoever Jim had talked to knew what was going on. I subsequently packed up and left before the load even took off so that I would not make a scene in front of every one and possibly ruin their weekend. Thus part of the reason for this post is to let people know what had happened. When I left a year ago I left without a word and I only told those who asked. However this time I will not sit back quietly and be treated this way my self. Jim and I have always been good friends and were even on a CRW team together and that is what pi***s me off the most. And when people do find out I guess I will see just how few friends I have.-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #6 August 28, 2005 QuoteWell I was not being rude to any one. I was simply trying to jump with my friend on his 100th jump and give him another first. If it was not for me trying to get something together this never would have even happened because the people who knew evidently did not even care. No one but me, Jim, JR and whoever Jim had talked to knew what was going on. I subsequently packed up and left before the load even took off so that I would not make a scene in front of every one and possibly ruin their weekend. Thus part of the reason for this post is to let people know what had happened. When I left a year ago I left without a word and I only told those who asked. However this time I will not sit back quietly and be treated this way my self. Jim and I have always been good friends and were even on a CRW team together and that is what pi***s me off the most. And when people do find out I guess I will see just how few friends I have. What you're experiencing sounds really typical of the kind of deep personal frustration that results from DZ politics. Sucks bigtime. I pretty much quit doing RW a few years back. It wasn't because of politics, but just because of a general level of frustration with not being able to do the kind of loads I wanted to do without being on a team. You did the right thing by leaving. Bad vibes at the dropzone is a bad thing. The best thing is to chill and take the high road. People that get sucked into politics at the dropzone are not necessarily bad people. Sometimes skydiving just brings out some very juvenile behavior. The people who NEVER get sucked into politics, though, are GREAT people. Your friend got his jump--that's the important thing. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pincheck 0 #7 August 28, 2005 Its funny but perhaps its the competitive edge of RW that gets in the way and where every block and move is analyzed where as freeflyers are a bit more layed back and looser in their approach to a dive. this sport is about having FUN sometimes people tend to loose sight of that. Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #8 August 28, 2005 QuoteIts funny but perhaps its the competitive edge of RW that gets in the way and where every block and move is analyzed where as freeflyers are a bit more layed back and looser in their approach to a dive. this sport is about having FUN sometimes people tend to loose sight of that. Dropzone group dynamics are a bit more complex than that, but the result is often like kids playing in a sandbox or fighting over who gets to play with the favorite toys. It can really get ridiculous. To me, the sport is about having fun and hanging out with some really great people, but there are some who feel quite differently. There are plenty of jumpers who are very goal-oriented with their skydiving. That's fine. I'll gladly enjoy hanging out with them on the ground. I've been a shithead on the DZ, and it's a really bad thing. I'll never go back to that kind of a mindset. It was from pure frustration. When that happens, it's definitely time to back off for a while. The fun does come back when you put a little distance between you and whatever is frustrating you. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tictoc 0 #9 August 28, 2005 First off you are right and I hope the dive went great for JR and I hope he had fun. I just wish they would have allowed him to pick the people he wanted to skydive with just like they get to do. I will also say that I am fortunate because I have got to jump with him when I was working their and he asked me to be his TI. I have always said that there are two reasons why people skydive. Because it is dangerous and because it is fun. If you take both of them away people will stop doing it. Walt I completely agree. I have spent the last year jumping at Eugene skydivers. It is a 2:20 drive for me each way (as opposed to :45). The people are great and the vibe is very laid back. Jumping became fun again for me. And I think it has helped me make it fun for my students. I had always said that I would be back at SDO next season. But now I am very discouraged. I did not think that the frustration would come back so quick and so harsh. I am an adult. I act like one and I EXPECT to be treated like one. You might be able to tell me were I can jump but don’t tell me who I can jump with and how I have to do it. I have put in the time to become a safe, good and rated skydiver. I deserve the respect that should come with that. Just as I have given it to “YOU”.-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #10 August 29, 2005 QuoteI just wish they would have allowed him to pick the people he wanted to skydive with just like they get to do. I'm thinking your friend should have stood up and said what he wanted. Is he really that close of a friend that he didn't stand up for you? Friendship is a two way street. Sounds like he needed to stand up to the people around him.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #11 August 29, 2005 I quit skydiving for a long time and BASE jumped exclusively. I pretty much hated skydivers because of the politics. That was until I made a few skydives at Skydive USA in Wharton, TX. I pretty much kept to myself until one day when I had a cutaway and landed off the dropzone. Pauly and Ruth were out there in a hurry. They weren't on staff--just regular jumpers. They just wanted to make sure I was ok, give me a ride and help me find my main and freebag. Really made me rethink my attitude toward skydivers. It made me realize that I was surrounded by a really wonderful group of people and I had been shutting them out because of some old attitudes. SUSA no longer exists, but I'm still in touch with some of the great friends I made there. I'd rather drive 3 hours to a place like that than 5 minues to a dropzone where politics are the order of the day. Congratulations on finding a DZ with great people. Don't give up on your old DZ, though. Dropzones change over time and tend to go through up and down cycles. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #12 August 29, 2005 If I KNOW my friends have been unfairly treated usually it becomes a point of honor for me to do everything I can to help.....usually. To hang around in a crowd where injustice even on a social level is prevalent is just too unsatisfying to bother with. If you have never had anyone stick up for you in your presence you might not realise just how amazing it can feel when some-one DOES stick up for you. When some-one sticks up for you and you don't even know about it then that is a whole different wonderful thing. What you've taken the time to describe here is not uncommon in skydiving . My feeling is that these people are the 'bulldozer' types who feel they have to push others out of the way in order for themselves to recieve the '2 seconds of fame' that comes from being the 1st at anything in skydiving. This just looks childish until it gets dangerous. Then it can border on the criminal....eg when you find that others within the sport have been secretly putting you down or spreading doubts about your safety or sanity. Unfortunatley in my experience I've seen such behaviour used as a tactic by skydivers who just can't accept that others are better or more experienced than themselves. This becomes dangerous when these 'bulldozer's won't listen to people who have already seen and/or made the mistakes they're about to commit themselves or encourage others to do so....whether unconsciously or not. Good on you for having your say and no doubt you 'll get to jump with your friend without the negative influences of these other pushy people ruining both your experiences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tictoc 0 #13 August 29, 2005 Quote I'm thinking your friend should have stood up and said what he wanted. Is he really that close of a friend that he didn't stand up for you? Friendship is a two way street. Sounds like he needed to stand up to the people around him. In his defense JR did not have time. The dive was already dirt dove and they were gearing up by the time I was able to talk to him. Plus I would not have expected him to as he is not aware of the bull s**t politics that take place. He is also a low key person and I never see him bitch about any thing. That is what makes him cool. He has 100 tandems, a broken leg from a bad landing and still going. JR you ROCK! Now Jim on the other hand ERRRRRR. I'm still pi***d!-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tictoc 0 #14 August 29, 2005 You know I thought their would have been more people who had an opinion on this either for or against. Were are all the people who would let this happen to a friend? I will not flame you. I just want to know who you are so I don’t waste one second of my life getting to know you. Feel free to post, I know you are out their.-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #15 August 29, 2005 That was a really good DZ! I agree with you about the folks there. I was there one week-end for a seminar. My wife and I got treated more than graciously. I hated to hear when they closed. I'll stand-up for my friends if, they are being mis-treated. I want to know both sides of the story, though. If, that is necessary. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tictoc 0 #16 August 30, 2005 QuoteThat was a really good DZ! I agree with you about the folks there. I was there one week-end for a seminar. My wife and I got treated more than graciously. I hated to hear when they closed. not sure I know what DZ you are talking about. Nither are closed-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #17 August 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteThat was a really good DZ! I agree with you about the folks there. I was there one week-end for a seminar. My wife and I got treated more than graciously. I hated to hear when they closed. not sure I know what DZ you are talking about. Nither are closed _________________________________________ Skydive U.S.A. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tictoc 0 #18 August 30, 2005 Quote Skydive U.S.A. Chuck I don't see what they have to do with this post?-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites waltappel 1 #19 August 30, 2005 QuoteQuote Skydive U.S.A. Chuck I don't see what they have to do with this post? I referred to that DZ in this post. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tictoc 0 #20 August 30, 2005 Ok I'm with ya now. Sorry did not see the name. I thought he was replying to me.-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #21 August 30, 2005 I was replying to WaltAppel in regard to the particular. Not always, do folks on BF stay germane to the topic. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites linestretch 0 #22 September 22, 2005 For starters, I was on the dive and filmed it. I knew about him making his 100th jump several weeks before it happened....it wasn't a secret....so don't think it was ALL you getting the ball rolling. Second, I agree it's fucked you got axed. I didn't know anything about it until someone mentioned it today. That sucks dude, and I'm sorry. Third, Jim has pulled some shit like this on me, and I agree, it's fucked. And finally, there are lingering affects you had on the DZ Brad. If you can't see it, then man, you got problems. I'm not saying it's all you, the DZ does have politic issues that bug the shit outa me. Just saying I see both sides.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StephZ 0 #23 September 22, 2005 Nice picks! Last I talked with JR (last weekend), he was still tellin' me about how fun that jump was! Maybe the rest of it was screwy, everyone knows how that goes sometimes ... Regardless, JR is damn good at having the time of his life, and you have to love him all the more for it! I am not afraid . . . I was born to do this -Joan of Arc- But what do I know, I'm only 19 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tictoc 0 #24 September 22, 2005 QuoteFor starters, I was on the dive and filmed it. I knew about him making his 100th jump several weeks before it happened....it wasn't a secret....so don't think it was ALL you getting the ball rolling. Second, I agree it's fucked you got axed. I didn't know anything about it until someone mentioned it today. That sucks dude, and I'm sorry. Third, Jim has pulled some shit like this on me, and I agree, it's fucked. And finally, there are lingering affects you had on the DZ Brad. If you can't see it, then man, you got problems. I'm not saying it's all you, the DZ does have politic issues that bug the shit outa me. Just saying I see both sides. My point was that if their were others their that knew about it NO ONE did any thing to get it going that day till I did. His 100th would have came and went without any thing. I even had to have him wate one jump till we could get it together because Jim wanted to do one more 8way. I didn't think it was a "secret" just that I got it going and then was pulled. As for the lingering affects. Yes I can see them but don't understand them. When all I did is leave how does that upset anyone. And I don't see how I "afected" anyone but my self by doing it. I did it in such a way that no one even noticed when I did it. Thanks for the understanding though. And again. GREAT PIC'S! As pissed as I am it is all worth it to see that JR had fun.-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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tictoc 0 #13 August 29, 2005 Quote I'm thinking your friend should have stood up and said what he wanted. Is he really that close of a friend that he didn't stand up for you? Friendship is a two way street. Sounds like he needed to stand up to the people around him. In his defense JR did not have time. The dive was already dirt dove and they were gearing up by the time I was able to talk to him. Plus I would not have expected him to as he is not aware of the bull s**t politics that take place. He is also a low key person and I never see him bitch about any thing. That is what makes him cool. He has 100 tandems, a broken leg from a bad landing and still going. JR you ROCK! Now Jim on the other hand ERRRRRR. I'm still pi***d!-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tictoc 0 #14 August 29, 2005 You know I thought their would have been more people who had an opinion on this either for or against. Were are all the people who would let this happen to a friend? I will not flame you. I just want to know who you are so I don’t waste one second of my life getting to know you. Feel free to post, I know you are out their.-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #15 August 29, 2005 That was a really good DZ! I agree with you about the folks there. I was there one week-end for a seminar. My wife and I got treated more than graciously. I hated to hear when they closed. I'll stand-up for my friends if, they are being mis-treated. I want to know both sides of the story, though. If, that is necessary. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tictoc 0 #16 August 30, 2005 QuoteThat was a really good DZ! I agree with you about the folks there. I was there one week-end for a seminar. My wife and I got treated more than graciously. I hated to hear when they closed. not sure I know what DZ you are talking about. Nither are closed-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #17 August 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteThat was a really good DZ! I agree with you about the folks there. I was there one week-end for a seminar. My wife and I got treated more than graciously. I hated to hear when they closed. not sure I know what DZ you are talking about. Nither are closed _________________________________________ Skydive U.S.A. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tictoc 0 #18 August 30, 2005 Quote Skydive U.S.A. Chuck I don't see what they have to do with this post?-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #19 August 30, 2005 QuoteQuote Skydive U.S.A. Chuck I don't see what they have to do with this post? I referred to that DZ in this post. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tictoc 0 #20 August 30, 2005 Ok I'm with ya now. Sorry did not see the name. I thought he was replying to me.-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #21 August 30, 2005 I was replying to WaltAppel in regard to the particular. Not always, do folks on BF stay germane to the topic. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #22 September 22, 2005 For starters, I was on the dive and filmed it. I knew about him making his 100th jump several weeks before it happened....it wasn't a secret....so don't think it was ALL you getting the ball rolling. Second, I agree it's fucked you got axed. I didn't know anything about it until someone mentioned it today. That sucks dude, and I'm sorry. Third, Jim has pulled some shit like this on me, and I agree, it's fucked. And finally, there are lingering affects you had on the DZ Brad. If you can't see it, then man, you got problems. I'm not saying it's all you, the DZ does have politic issues that bug the shit outa me. Just saying I see both sides.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StephZ 0 #23 September 22, 2005 Nice picks! Last I talked with JR (last weekend), he was still tellin' me about how fun that jump was! Maybe the rest of it was screwy, everyone knows how that goes sometimes ... Regardless, JR is damn good at having the time of his life, and you have to love him all the more for it! I am not afraid . . . I was born to do this -Joan of Arc- But what do I know, I'm only 19 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tictoc 0 #24 September 22, 2005 QuoteFor starters, I was on the dive and filmed it. I knew about him making his 100th jump several weeks before it happened....it wasn't a secret....so don't think it was ALL you getting the ball rolling. Second, I agree it's fucked you got axed. I didn't know anything about it until someone mentioned it today. That sucks dude, and I'm sorry. Third, Jim has pulled some shit like this on me, and I agree, it's fucked. And finally, there are lingering affects you had on the DZ Brad. If you can't see it, then man, you got problems. I'm not saying it's all you, the DZ does have politic issues that bug the shit outa me. Just saying I see both sides. My point was that if their were others their that knew about it NO ONE did any thing to get it going that day till I did. His 100th would have came and went without any thing. I even had to have him wate one jump till we could get it together because Jim wanted to do one more 8way. I didn't think it was a "secret" just that I got it going and then was pulled. As for the lingering affects. Yes I can see them but don't understand them. When all I did is leave how does that upset anyone. And I don't see how I "afected" anyone but my self by doing it. I did it in such a way that no one even noticed when I did it. Thanks for the understanding though. And again. GREAT PIC'S! As pissed as I am it is all worth it to see that JR had fun.-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
