emergency procedures with skyhook/drx

[mr2mk1g 10]

I'm glad you asked the question somewhere, as doing what you say you'd thought up would be a great way to get yourself killed.

Stick to what you were taught in your AFF course. It doesn't suddenly become wrong simply because you now have 100 jumps.

And seriously see if you can talk with a rigger or take a look at your new skyhook with him when it arrives as whilst you say you know how it works, you clearly have a fairly flawed appreciation of its operation to have come up with the plan you describe above. Nothing to be ashamed of there of course, but you should seek to clarify your understanding of it if you're going to wear it on your back.

[hackish 8]

If the pilot already beat you out and you're the last person on board then you could sit down, tie you main bridle onto something, pull your cutaway and then jump out. This could technically make your reserve deploy faster. I'm of course kidding.

My main concern about suggesting anything but jumping and pulling the shiny handle is if someone did have the idea of pitching on the step a bad situation could become a fatal one.

Both of my reserve rides were subterminal reserve deployments and both of them had me in the saddle under reserve in about 300'. Add the forward speed of pulling right off the step and you'll probably be in the saddle sooner.

-Michael

[councilman24 36]

You demonstrate a clear LACK of understanding how your equipment works. You also seemed to have been brain washed by the Skyhook advertising.

Get in front of a real person and get a reality check.

Consider information you get hear like used chewing gum on the ground. You don't know who its from and if its any good.

And nobody has mentioned that your reserve may malfunction and you would have already cutaway your last chance to live.

Yes you may have to ACTUALLY pull your reserve handle yourself. Get used to it!

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[PhreeZone 14]

Walk over to Bonnie at Gravity Gear and talk to her about your gear decisions and she will be able to answer your questions or get someone to answer your questions for you.

At this point you have some very dangerous assumptions and you need to sit down and talk to some instructors directly to clarify them.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[napvid 0]

Quote

if I have skyhook, should I pull my cutaway handle and let the skyhook open my reserve.. or should I just pull my reserve handle..

Question are the best way to learn. As far as this question goes lets think about it for a minute.

If you just pull the cutaway handle nothing will happen because there is nothing to pull the closing pin and pull the D-bag out of the container.

If you pull the PC as you leave the AC there will be a longer delay because the PC will nee to catch clean air to inflate enough to pull the pin and D-bag out of the container. Then more time for your main to inflate enough for a cutaway. Then more time for the skyhook to extract the reserve and then inflate the reserve. Wow now that seems like a lot of wasted time and precious altitude. You may as well just let the main inflate, ride it down and swoop the pond.

Just think about it this way, don't you think it would be silly to cutaway a non-malfunctioning canopy? What happens IF you do it your way and the reserve fails (and they do) you just let a perfectly good canopy float away from you with out giving it a chance.

I recently bought some gear and hung out with my rigger while he gave me a complete equipment check and repack. I learned so much about my own gear that day.Also, I was able to pull my reserve handle for the first time and I'll tell you what, that PC shot out of the container like a bat outa hell and flew about 20 feet. What I learned from that was the reserve PC is designed to shot out to clean air for quick extraction.

It is also a good idea to have a plan for every aspect of the dive from the time you walk in the door at the DZ. In this situation my hard deck is 2000ft reserve pull. Anything below 2000ft and assuming the pilot says get the hell out my hand is on the reserve handle out the door clear the AC and pull and THATS THAT

“As you know, these are open forums, you’re able to come and listen to what I have to say.” –George W. Bush, 10.28.03.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Hey man,

Reading your first post, I was at first tempted to panic and think you had no idea how the skyhook worked. Then I saw your line of reasoning and realized you do know how it works, and thought perhaps you could generate an even faster reserve opening by unconventional means.

I'm glad you're thinking about this stuff, and I'm glad you're asking questions... those who are telling you to stop thinking and just listen to instructors should back off a bit. You can't learn without asking questions, and people tend to take for granted the things they know today, even though when they were new jumpers they didn't know everything either.

That said, the answers you got were correct... cutting away and dumping the main would probably result in more altitude loss, plus then you've gotta go find the main. Going strait for silver is the correct course of action in an extreme low altitude bail-out situation.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[LloydDobbler 2]

Quote

Walk over to Bonnie at Gravity Gear and talk to her about your gear decisions and she will be able to answer your questions or get someone to answer your questions for you.

At this point you have some very dangerous assumptions and you need to sit down and talk to some instructors directly to clarify them.

I'll second that. When you mentioned that you feel like the DZ is too busy, I can somewhat understand that - the one time I was down there, they were turning loads like nobody's business. But at the same time, that didn't stop Wyatt Drews from taking time out to walk me and my buddy around the DZ for 30 mins, giving us a good, solid orientation (at the request of the girl running manifest).

Incidentally, I had my first cutaway on that weekend - and Bonnie was the one who walked through the post-game thoughts/"what-if's" with me. She's got a ton of experience, a wealth of knowledge, and (from my own experience) is more than willing to sit down and talk through these sorts of things with low-number jumpers.

The advice that's been given here is good. I also agree with those who think it's good that you're asking these questions, and trying to think of alternate approaches...I'm just a little worried that the only place you think you can bring up these sorts of Q's is an online forum.

Find an instructor and ask them...and if they say 'Now is not a good time,' tell them it's a safety issue, and ask 'When would be a good time?' You'll find that most will be very responsive, and willing to help.

Signatures are the new black.

[bfilarsky 0]

Quote

i have been jumping there for 2 years and try to ask other jumpers there instead of the staff because the staff has money to make, and if i pay 100 dollars for a coach jump they spend 10 mins with me before the jump and then its like, OK SEE YA

I can vouch that there are plenty of people at SDSD who will spend time with you to go over questions you have.

Just a few days ago I asked Blake a few questions about Canopy control and got a very thorough answer to all my questions.

Just find an instructor who isn't on a load RIGHT NOW and ask

[GravityGirl 0]

Where to start.

Jason, I'm sorry you feel that we as instructors at Skydive San Diego don't have time for you or your questions. Life does get busy on the weekends. These last couple of weeks in particular.

The first time you were going to order gear we had a proper gear consultation. At that time you were not interested in the sky hook. Understand that your order has not been completed yet and at this point you were inquiring about the sky hook. Whatever configuration your gear comes in, rest assured you will be properly briefed on your gear and your options. BUT BE WARNED! I will make you sit down and listen. It's your responsibility to be open to receiving instruction and advise.

If you were on Saturday's load with a Sky Hook, and IF we would have bailed out, you would have had to bail out directly on your reserve. We were 1,700 feet above sea level when we lost the elevator, but we were over the hills, so depending on where you were in exit order, you would have been 1,000 - 500 feet AGL. I was close enough to the door where I had a good chance of survival if I bailed, but the pilot was fighting for control of the aircraft and our departure would likely have fucked the rest of the load. It was a group decision lead by Matt Lewis to keep the weight forward, buckle up and brace for impact. Not an easy choice, but everyone worked as a team. 24 people seemed to be on the same page on Saturday. There must be some sharing of knowledge going on at Skydive San Diego for that kind of thing to take place.

Jason, you need to come into my office asap to review few things. Emergency proceedures, gear options, drop zone proceedure. I WILL make time for you. I promise.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[someday 0]

Wyatt was a significant other..

he was always willing to answer my dumb questions.

i miss his personality around the dz :*(

[GravityGirl 0]

Thanks for coming in to chat yesterday. I hope you don't hesitate in the future to get your questions answered.... particularly life and death questions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[diablopilot 2]

Thank you for being a resource Bonnie.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[brianfry713 0]

piisfish, if you're serious about trying a TARD out of an airplane (which I don't think you are), don't. Don't even try a TARD when it's windy out (which the door of the airplane definitely qualifies as. Unpacking your pilot chute or your main anywhere near an open door of an airplane is a good way to get yourself and anyone else in the plane killed. Besides, why the hell would you cutaway before a TARD?

The OP would be best off landing in the airplane in most cases or just staying on the ground. For the rest of you, if you're below 1,000 feet, you're probably best landing in the plane. Even if the engine(s) quits, gliding landings are usually not fatal. I glide my parachute to a landing every time.

I'll try to make it simple for you because it's a simple system:
Handle #1, main pilot chute.
Handle #2, cutaway.
Handle #3, reserve pilot chute.

If you're below 1,000 feet, and don't have a good main, go straight to handle #3. If you're in freefall with nothing out and no handles pulled below 2,000 feet or so, go straight to handle #3. Otherwise don't pull them out of order for any reason besides maybe a canopy transfer (which is risky at best).

If you do like the OP suggests and pull handle #2, then #1, then let the RSL or skyhook do it's thing, you could get entangled in the mess and die. The static line student fatality who cutaway his main on exit and got flipped upside down as the main left and the RSL pulled the reserve and the reserve PC entangled with him all the way to impact comes to mind.

Keep handle #1 in the pouch and the main in the container while you're in the plane. That's what it's designed for. The time you think you may save by going hand held is not worth the extra risk of entanglement, premature extraction, unstable exit and freefall, malfunction, and death. Besides, you need the half second it takes you to get to your handle in order to clear the airplane.

I have a hard time believing that (assuming it works at all and you survive) a static-line main to skyhook or RSL deployed reserve would open any faster than a normal reserve deployed by a pilot chute. Reserves open quick using them correctly without doing something stupid.

And you should probably ignore everything said in this thread because at least half of it is idiotic. The best thing you could do next to talking to someone in person who knows this stuff (Instructor, rigger, gear store owner, coach, or experienced jumper) is read it here:
http://www.uspa.org/publications/SIM/2008SIM/SIM.htm
http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=85&Itemid=27
http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/PDF/Support/Manual/09354(V3_Manual).pdf
http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/PDF/Support/Manual/09109(skyhPackIns).pdf

If you jump something other than a Vector 3, go to the manufacturer's website and read the manual. I don't know much about the DRX yet except that it's coming soon, it's something like a Skyhook except it might not have a Collin's lanyard.

One of the points of an RSL, Skyhook RSL, or AAD is that they shouldn't emergency procedures most of the time. Pull your handles in order. Don't be afraid to talk to people at the DZ. If they're busy, find someone else you trust to ask or try again at another time or DZ if you have to. Or just find Bonnie.

You're posting about it so I'm guessing it all worked out well, but I can't help but wonder how the rest of the story of the Otter with no elevator played out.

BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI
USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative

[piisfish 135]

Quote

piisfish, if you're serious about trying a TARD out of an airplane (which I don't think you are), don't. Don't even try a TARD when it's windy out (which the door of the airplane definitely qualifies as. Besides, why the hell would you cutaway before a TARD?

of course I wouldn't try or recommend it...
was just suggesting ideas of faster reserve deployment to the OP (which I hope, with all the replies given, he didn't take seriously)

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM