Gear check may have saved my life..

[AggieDave 6]

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I post here as a regular jumper, NOT as a representative of USPA.

That has been debated in the legal arena before, specifically about you, right?

If you are something, you are something, regardless as to if you want to represent that something at the time. Since you are BOD, what you say publicly (as in on a public skydiving website) does represent the BOD and the USPA. Regardless as to if you think it should or not.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Gato 0]

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Unless I quote USPA doctrine, the content of my posts do not represent any USPA official position.

That's not what I was saying - you're reading too much into it.

You post here as a regular jumper, but your profile is empty - that's all I'm talking about. Not everyone is going to take the time to find out who you are, and when you reply as if you are an authority on a subject (which is totally fine, because you are), not everyone you reply to will take it as you trying to be constructive.

You said the questions you ask seem to piss people off more than the real issues, and you asked, "Why is that." That was the question I was attempting to answer - it was NOT a veiled attempt to get you to reply with USPA's "Official Position."

I meant no disrespect to you or to USPA, and I'm sorry if it came across that way.

T.I.N.S.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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I post here as a regular jumper, NOT as a representative of USPA.

That has been debated in the legal arena before, specifically about you, right?

No, absolutely not. There is absolutely no document, post, website, whatever anywhere that claims that what I posted as an individual that was purported to be an 'official USPA' opinion.

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If you are something, you are something, regardless as to if you want to represent that something at the time. Since you are BOD, what you say publicly (as in on a public skydiving website) does represent the BOD and the USPA. Regardless as to if you think it should or not.

No it does not. Look, I, personally, do not support photocopied ballots for various reasons. But I went out of my way to help the people that did want photocopied ballots and voted to reinstate the photocopied ballots for this election because that is what the membership wanted.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[AggieDave 6]

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No it does not

Ok, you must be the only and first elected official in modern history that is in this unique position. In skydiving or out of skydiving. The way I see it, that means you owe beer (since we're skydivers).

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Look, I, personally, do not support photocopied ballots for various reasons.

I really have no idea what you're referencing now, but that has nothing to do with what I said in my previous post.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Since you are BOD, what you say publicly (as in on a public skydiving website) does represent the BOD and the USPA. Regardless as to if you think it should or not.

I am replying to an earlier post to show the fallacy of your thinking.
There are rules in the Governance Manual that explicitly state that only the President or the Executive Director can make 'official' USPA statements. (It will be an exercise for the reader to go look up the rules.) In limited cases, such as an FAI sanctioned competition, the FAI delegate may make statements on behalf of USPA.

There is no rule anywhere that states that one's personal opinion, whether elected official or not, is assigned to the organization, except for the President or ED.
There is no rule that denies an elected official from having an opinion or view, that may be in dissonance with the collective, from expressing that opinion.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[lurch 0]

I wonder how many of us have done it. Took me 525 jumps to make that mistake, while taking up a wingsuit student no less. Theres this guy name of Muppet jumps out at Jumptown and maybe Lebanon, caught it in the plane. Muppet, I owe you one.
Steve, you and the others I fly with regularly have probably seen my solution for this, its why I'm always running my thumb over the buckle in the plane, cause if I've done it right it feels a certain way, one line of metal one line of fabric. You might have noticed I also have another weird gearcheck habit of grabbing at my 3 rings momentarily when we're all getting prepped for exit. Reed caught me with a twisted riser once as a newbie that had somehow folded under and locked in such a way that it didn't want to come loose when we untwisted it and almost certainly would have made opening/cutaway very interesting.
I used to do the "check of threes" thing when gearing up, but after getting into wingsuit,(which added 3 more handles and 6 more zippers) then camera, (more velcro, straps buttons batteries and stuff) then modified/homemade wingsuit and still flying camera with it theres so many critical points to check that a simple recital of it would be a speech. So I just built compulsive repetitive checking habits around each item as I added them to the skydive and I run through the check loop over and over till exit. One man's OCD is another man's vigilance. Works for me.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[jjiimmyyt 0]

Thats why I like the procedure at my DZ. Each person not qualified to JM has a check signed by someone qualified to JM, the actual JM signs for the load. Instructors have to sign for their students and themselves.

The up jumpers sort themselves out for the nessacery checks and sigs. Adds about a minute to boarding at worst. Well worth it.

"This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave

[DSE 3]

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The up jumpers sort themselves out for the nessacery checks and sigs. Adds about a minute to boarding at worst. Well worth it.

So on *every jump* a piece of paper is signed by someone with a JM rating for every person who doesn't have a JM rating?

[popsjumper 2]

Jan,
This is cool. If you an Krissane are elected, you could both work together to have the SIM corrected to eliminate the interpretation conflict you each pointed out.

Plus, there's many more such instances that could be corrected eh?

If I had my druthers, I prefer that pre-licensed jumpers be required to jump under the supervision of an Instructor...I'm hesitant at this time to include Coaches in that.

Sadly, in the real world, it will never happen

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[tbrown 26]

Here's a really scary one. A good friend of ours had recently re-attached his risers to his harness, but incorrectly routed the closing loop. Instead of routing the loop all the way through the cable housing eyeltes, he'd run them through the grommet in the riser, then run the cables through the loops and left it at that. Somebody ON THE PLANE noticed that both his cable housings with the eyelets were hanging out loose, with the eyelets empty. It was fixed on the spot, in the plane.

Our friend is no dummy, nor is he a newbie. A mistake like this could've killed him, perhaps by releasing a riser on final approach, or maybe on opening, and/or preventing a successful cutaway.

As embarrassed as he was, he's made a point of telling people about it, because it just goes to show how easily people who think they've got it together can make a life threatening mistake.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[erdnarob 1]

It's an easy mistake to be missed by a person looking at you. Congrats to the person who saw it. You owe him/her a couple of beer for sure. Possible consequence of such a mistake: falling off your harness...#$%?!!@!

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[dgw 8]

That is correct. All jumpers get a flight line check by another jumper, who signs it off on the manifest. Takes a minute. The jumpmaster for the load signs off on the manifest that everybody has been checked.

It is no burden.

[AlRedler 0]

That is also why you will usually see British jumpers in the States checking each other out before getting on the plane. We have that as a habit and many would be very uncomfortable getting on the lane without having that check.

As well as checking that the rig is on correctly, the check should include checking that the reserve is in date too.

[mnealtx 0]

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As well as checking that the rig is on correctly, the check should include checking that the reserve is in date too.

I guess there's not many Racers where you're at - as I recall, they have their packing card on the backpad.

For that matter, I can't get at the packing card on my Vector without taking the rig half-off.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[AlRedler 0]

Most rigs here have a tag on with the reserve repack date. The type of plastic band they use in hospitals for your id. It is not compulsory to have that at all dropzones though.

[tdog 0]

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Well, something really bad could have happened today. I asked someone in the plane to check my pin, he did and also checked my chest strap. Well turns out that i only routed the chest strap through and not back in to lock it in place.

THANK YOU

Just a reminder to please get a gear check in the plane. One look over is not enough.

All this banter about who should be giving gear checks to who, and if someone is a Board of Director of the USPA... I am over it... The fact is, most people don't get gear checks. I have been to maybe 20 DZs in 4 years, and that is a trend from coast to coast. Right or Wrong... So we have to teach students to do gear checks on their own because sooner or later they will be...

Mitsuman. Were you taught the "check of threes?". In case not, here it is... I make my AFF students do it from Level 1 on... I recommend it highly.

Item 1: The THREE straps. Check each strap, look at them to make sure they are routed correctly. Feel them, a correctly routed strap = metal. (When wearing a wingsuit, feel your leg straps thru your suit).

Item 2: The THREE handles. Feel the main. In too far? Out too far? Just right? Feel the cutaway. Actually put a bit of pressure on it. Is the Velcro holding? Feel the reserve, and tug lightly on it? Velcro seated? (This tug part is important... I never did this until I saw a student's handle dangling in the aircraft after two successful "touch the handle, it is there" gear checks. The handle was not properly installed so no velcro was holding it. A light tug is required to check.

Item 3: The THREE rings (RSL, 3rings left, 3 rings right). Are they installed correctly? A light tug on the cutaway cable housing will insure the loop is thru the hole on the end of the housing. Feeling the yellow cable leave the housing, go thru the loop and go back into the hard housing on the risers can be done with your thumbs in stereo in less than a second.


Checking your bridle routing and pin configurations on the ground, followed by a check of threes when you put on your gear, a check of threes when you board the plane, and a check of threes at altitude will eliminate most gear issues... Even in this world of no gear checks....



Oh... About accessories: "SHAGG"...
S hoes - tied
H elmet - fits and straps working
A ltimeter - Adjusted to zero
G oggles - Fits and around neck or thru strap of Helmet so can't be lost.
G loves - when needed.

You should always do SHAGG before you get to the plane. You will never find yourself missing gear at altitude. True story. Another skydiver said to me (very experienced guy), "You are the instructor on an AFF jump, you don't need SHAGG for yourself, dude!" 10 minutes later he was asking if I had a spare goggles for him so he could video the tandem with his eyes open.

SHAGG + 3 checks of threes forever... No need to stop these things when you get 1000 jumps.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Jan,
This is cool. If you an Krissane are elected, you could both work together to have the SIM corrected to eliminate the interpretation conflict you each pointed out.

Plus, there's many more such instances that could be corrected eh?

If I had my druthers, I prefer that pre-licensed jumpers be required to jump under the supervision of an Instructor...I'm hesitant at this time to include Coaches in that.

Sadly, in the real world, it will never happen

No problem on making the doctrine consistent. USPA is now on a two year update schedule for the SIM and IRM.
It appears that the glossary definition has not been updated properly to be consistent with what the ISP says.
See pgs 6, 65, 66 (note at top), 74, 75, 83, 93
Based on the preponderance of the ISP pages that discuss supervision I would think that the glossary definition should be changed to

Self Supervision: The point within a student’s training when he has been cleared by a USPA Instructor to jump without instructor supervision in freefall but has not yet completed all of the requirements for the USPA A license.

I'll send an email to the S&T Chair and the HQ Director of S&T.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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That is correct. All jumpers get a flight line check by another jumper, who signs it off on the manifest. Takes a minute. The jumpmaster for the load signs off on the manifest that everybody has been checked.

It is no burden.

Except that the jumpmaster, who may or may not be a DZ employee, can be held accountable by the law for other people's kit. Probably not a problem on large DZs, people have been on these boards in the past complaining about it on small ones.

[erdnarob 1]

Well, a lot of good things here but ultimately this is the responsibility of the licensed jumper to check his gear. There is 3 attachments points: 2 on the leg straps and one on the chest strap. It's not too much compared to a pilot who has more than 70 checks and/or tests to do before taking off for the first time of the day. A well packed rig has to be checked on the ground before doning it : front : 3 rings and release cables, chest strap, leg straps; rear: AAD, reserve pin, main pin and bridle routing + pocket. This has to be done for each jump. This is not the place in the airplane for a complete check, just the pins should be checked but certainly not the reserve card. Obviously, if in the airplane you see a major problem on somedy else rig, you try to fix it. If it's impossible the jumper will come down with the airplane and ask to pilot to slow down his descent before arriving at the AAD firing altitude. The idea here is to be systematic on the ground and have adequate routine which will keep you healthy.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[DSE 3]

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Well, a lot of good things here but ultimately this is the responsibility of the licensed jumper to check his gear.

I absolutely agree. On the two jumps I've had where gear wasn't properly fastened or ready for exit, both were ultimately my responsibility.
It's a gift that we are able to look out for each other, but we're never responsible for each other.

[happythoughts 0]

Here is what I recommend to everyone - visual checks.
Don't start touching stuff without permission.

Look at everyone within sight on the plane.
Look at their chest strap routing and handles.

If a cutaway handle is tucked under the webbing, it will not be accessible when needed. If it is happening this time, it may be happening other times when you are not around and they need to know it.

A long time ago, I did gear checks on the ground for everyone in my 10-way group before boarding. Nobody checked me and I almost died.

Keep an eye out for your friends. Skydiving is serious stuff.
One day you will help someone else, then post that too.


Glad you are ok.

[dgw 8]

I'm not sure what the legal liability is for the jumpmaster (in the UK) redarding the flight line check.

I'm not a legal professional, but I think that simply ensuring that everybody has been checked by a skydiver qualified to do so (B licence) would not equal significant liability. Ultimately, assuming that checks have been done properly, there would never be an issue in this regard....

[mitsuman 0]

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All this banter about who should be giving gear checks to who, and if someone is a Board of Director of the USPA... I am over it... The fact is, most people don't get gear checks. I have been to maybe 20 DZs in 4 years, and that is a trend from coast to coast. Right or Wrong... So we have to teach students to do gear checks on their own because sooner or later they will be...

Mitsuman. Were you taught the "check of threes?". In case not, here it is... I make my AFF students do it from Level 1 on... I recommend it highly.

Item 1: The THREE straps. Check each strap, look at them to make sure they are routed correctly. Feel them, a correctly routed strap = metal. (When wearing a wingsuit, feel your leg straps thru your suit).

Item 2: The THREE handles. Feel the main. In too far? Out too far? Just right? Feel the cutaway. Actually put a bit of pressure on it. Is the Velcro holding? Feel the reserve, and tug lightly on it? Velcro seated? (This tug part is important... I never did this until I saw a student's handle dangling in the aircraft after two successful "touch the handle, it is there" gear checks. The handle was not properly installed so no velcro was holding it. A light tug is required to check.

Item 3: The THREE rings (RSL, 3rings left, 3 rings right). Are they installed correctly? A light tug on the cutaway cable housing will insure the loop is thru the hole on the end of the housing. Feeling the yellow cable leave the housing, go thru the loop and go back into the hard housing on the risers can be done with your thumbs in stereo in less than a second.


Checking your bridle routing and pin configurations on the ground, followed by a check of threes when you put on your gear, a check of threes when you board the plane, and a check of threes at altitude will eliminate most gear issues... Even in this world of no gear checks....



Oh... About accessories: "SHAGG"...
S hoes - tied
H elmet - fits and straps working
A ltimeter - Adjusted to zero
G oggles - Fits and around neck or thru strap of Helmet so can't be lost.
G loves - when needed.

You should always do SHAGG before you get to the plane. You will never find yourself missing gear at altitude. True story. Another skydiver said to me (very experienced guy), "You are the instructor on an AFF jump, you don't need SHAGG for yourself, dude!" 10 minutes later he was asking if I had a spare goggles for him so he could video the tandem with his eyes open.

SHAGG + 3 checks of threes forever... No need to stop these things when you get 1000 jumps.

Hey, thanks for the information. Yes i was taught the three's, but obviously missed that one.

Shagg. Nice i will keep that in mind.

Hi, my names Jon, and I love to skydive.

[Reginald 0]

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And, like Mitsuman, after I finished AFF, it was a lonely place to be. No one really cared abut me. Unless I asked specific questions or asked for a gear check, I was on my own. So, I decided that the only person I could trust at this point was myself. I'm reading the SIM cover to cover and asking as many questions as I can...even though it probably annoys people.

Where are you jumping that this happens? If this is really happening find another DZ. AFF is only the first half of the student program to get a license. The coaching program is the second half; it can be done my instructors or coaches but to complete your A license card there are a number of mandatory items that you must work with an instructional rating holder to achieve.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[JohnMitchell 14]

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In fact, I couldn't post as a representative of USPA's voice even if I wanted too.

Ahh, that explains why you're wearing a gag in your avatar . . .