PD Optimum - Where to find one for a decent deal?

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey everyone,

I'm looking to purchase a new Optimum reserve and I'm trying to shop around for the best price. From all the dealers I've checked so far, they are all selling it at retail cost. Is there anywhere out there trying to steal the market share, offering a good deal?

If not...I'll just suck it up and buy it, but I'm hoping that someone has a secret source or a dealer that I've missed.

Thanks

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[Canuck 0]

According to the guy I buy through, PD did some re-structuring a while ago that prevents their dealers from selling their products much below suggested retail. I think I paid just under retail for mine, but that included shipping, taxes, and an install and pack. If you can find a local rigger/dealer, that's where you have your bargaining power.

Canuck

[Slurp56 0]

Time to suck it up and buy one. If you are getting it at MSRP you are getting a good deal. There is price flexibility on other PD products, just not the optimum. But hey, it is a nice product

________________________________________
I have proof-read this post 500 times, but I guarantee you'll still manage to find a flaw.

[bigway 4]

I thought all PD products were not allowed to be sold below MSRP, or at least 'advertised' below MSRP?

In a way, i think what they are doing is good by having this rule but at the same time the rule i dont think was put in place to keep it fair between distributors, I remember reading something from them about it being so they can retain the value of their products.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[BlindBrick 0]

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I thought all PD products were not allowed to be sold below MSRP

If so (am not saying they are, because I don't know) that's a violation of federal law, but good luck getting the DOJ interested in such small fry. But then again, as part of CPS they are technically a defense contractor which might make them a little jucier to a hungry prosecutor.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[bigway 4]

I thought there might be a law about it but who cares.... they are doing a good thing in the sport we all love so much and where i come from skydivers dont try to get other skydivers in the shit.

Cheers for telling me though.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[BlindBrick 0]

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I thought there might be a law about it but who cares.... they are doing a good thing in the sport we all love so much and where i come from skydivers dont try to get other skydivers in the shit.

Cheers for telling me though.

Don't put words in my mouth. You asked a question and I responded. My response included a rebuttal for the most common comment you hear when you point out something like that ie. The DOJ only goes after the large businesses. And I mean large ones. If you aren't turning more than a couple of billion annually, you're usually not worth the DOJ's time.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[bigway 4]

I think you took my post the wrong way. I was not suggesting that you suggested anything. Just saying how i felt about the matter.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[BlindBrick 0]

fair enough. I think I came across as harsher than I meant to be anyway.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[ianmdrennan 2]

PD did restructure their pricing to their dealers a couple years ago. I remember reading the article in Skydiving back in 2006. I guess that’s why you don’t see everyone offering huge discounts on their products anymore. I think its good, I don’t fly a PD because I got a big discount, I fly it because it’s a great company with a great product. Now I can actually look at the retail price and know where the value of my canopy begins when it’s new. If I can get a few bucks off great, if not, I know my PD will hold its value when I go to resell it.
The Optimum is the premier reserve on the market today, why would your dealer devalue YOUR canopy by lowering the price. If you want a lower price, try a regular PD reserve, they’re lower in price, and before the optimum came out, that was considered the best thing around.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[likestojump 3]

Quote

Quote

I thought all PD products were not allowed to be sold below MSRP

If so (am not saying they are, because I don't know) that's a violation of federal law, but good luck getting the DOJ interested in such small fry. But then again, as part of CPS they are technically a defense contractor which might make them a little jucier to a hungry prosecutor.

-Blind

Don't you mean violation of CONTRACT law ?

[BlindBrick 0]

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Don't you mean violation of CONTRACT law ?

No. Contract law is when one party fails to honor/live up to provisions in a contract. There's no contract with the potential buyer in the situation.

This is an example of anti-trust law which is known as Competition law in other countries.

Another critical difference is that contract law is tort (civil) law where as Anti-trust law is criminal law. That's why in anti-trust cases there's not a plantiff but a prosecutor.

Someone like Lawrocket could refine and possibly correct my explanation since I've now been up 28 hours, but I think I got the gist fo it right. A signifcant part of my undergrad and graduate work was dedicated to biz law with about equal emphasis on contracts, anti-trust and SOX. or as we called it in grad school "an MBA in CYA"

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[likestojump 3]

Quote

Quote

Don't you mean violation of CONTRACT law ?

No. Contract law is when one party fails to honor/live up to provisions in a contract. There's no contract with the potential buyer in the situation.

This is an example of anti-trust law which is known as Competition law in other countries.

Another critical difference is that contract law is tort (civil) law where as Anti-trust law is criminal law. That's why in anti-trust cases there's not a plantiff but a prosecutor.

Someone like Lawrocket could refine and possibly correct my explanation since I've now been up 28 hours, but I think I got the gist fo it right. A signifcant part of my undergrad and graduate work was dedicated to biz law with about equal emphasis on contracts, anti-trust and SOX. or as we called it in grad school "an MBA in CYA"

-Blind

you know, this time I am Blind :)

I was thinking the PD reseller violates the contract law if he sells below MSRP. you are looking at PD as the company violating federal statutes.

i am guessing we are both right :)

[BlindBrick 0]

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I was thinking the PD reseller violates the contract law if he sells below MSRP. you are looking at PD as the company violating federal statutes.

i am guessing we are both right :)

As is most times the case in law, yes and no.
An extreme and silly example is having a written contract for asassinating someone. Since murder is illegal and the asassination is the only item in the contract, the contract is void. OTOH, if the asassin was supposed to get a quart of milk and pick up your dry cleaning before wacking the mark, then they'd be in breach of contract if they failed to delviery the dairy and clothes.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[divnswoop 0]

PD and CPS are two different companies so any accusation about PD price fixing sport parachutes will not affect CPS. Not that I think PD is price fixing, but rather are undercharging for their product.

If people want *deals* on parachutes, there are plently of companies out there that will *give* you one.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi bigway,

This 'conforming to the retail price' was tried by both Pioneer and Security back in the '60's. Some times the distributor would actually call up the buyer ( if he had the phone number ) and ask him what he paid for his ParaCommander.

A local dealer/dzo got around it by having a trade-in. "You got a rubber band there. I'll give you $35 trade-in for it.'

JerryBaumchen

PS) It always has been and always will be the law of supply & demand.

[lawrocket 3]

There is are arguments to be made that the assassin wouldn't be found to be in breach of the agreement. First, if the provisions of the K are not severable, then illegality of one provision may make the whole K void - or at least voidable (any reasonably competent lawyer would put a provision in the K that unenforceability of one term does not make any other term unenforceabe. Well, any reasonably ethical attorney wouldn't be assisting with the drafting of a contract for killing.)

Also, there is another argument that the failure to get the milk and dry cleaning is immaterial to the contract, such that the breach of those conditions is not important enough.

Sorry. I like having fun with things like this.

As it stands, though, I can see why PD wouldn't want anything sold below MSRP. They don't want to find themselves implicated in unfair competition. ANy issue with it would likely be between PD and the downstream seller of the product.

The issue is that it can be difficult for any company to manage this since canopies are freely fungible goods and find themselves in the stream of commerce. Will it be sold below MSRP on e-bay? That really cannot be prevented.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Broke 0]

From my understanding if vendor doesn't charge PDs prices for their products said vendor loses the privlage of selling new PD equipment

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Thanks for the info everyone. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some dealer that's selling them less than the others. This confirms my suspicions...

Note to self: Suck it up!

Thanks!

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[icevideot 0]

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reasonably ethical attorney

I'm sorry, I am eating breakfast and a little milk shot out of my nose when I read that.

No offense intended it is just that most of this doesn't help us non lawyers unless we can pay a competent attorney to tell us how it works. I love you guys when I need you though.
I would be more concerned if pd lowered prices to stamp out the little guys. I have other options if I
don't want to pay pd's msrp.

"... this ain't a Nerf world."

[Andy0689 0]

I just went through the whole rig buying process. Unless something has changed in the past few weeks, retailers have to list PD products at MSRP but can sell them for a cheaper price- at least that's what someone at Square1 or ParaGear told me when I called. That's why the catalogs/web have a note to call for their price. Both Square1 and ParaGear have that statement on their websites. I can't remember the price on the Optimum at ParaGear or Square1 but both were under MSRP with different wait times.

Don't forget to check Chuting Star too. Mike took really good care of me and I ended up getting everything through him except my main which I bought used.

Andy
I'll believe it when I see it on YouTube!

[bigway 4]

PD canopies can not be advertised below retail price. There is a tiny discount that is the minimum retail policy agrrment, it is next to nothing thogugh.
IN all, Dealers are not allowed to sell PD canopies below retail, even by beating another quote so to speak.

Icarus has a set price point as well. I am sure aerodyne will soon with their new CEO.

Same goes with Cypres.
Some of the other manufacturers dont mind what the sale price is but they keep an eye on it.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[Andy0689 0]

Oh. I was just going by what I was told on the phone and apologize if I'm wrong. I got a price quote over the phone on a PD Spectre from one of them for $1750 and $1758 from another. Retail is $1930 as listed/advertised on both retailers' websites. That's less than a 10% discount but still a discount. Like you said, minimum at best but every little helps. So, is the $1750 is the minimum retail policy agreement?

Andy
I'll believe it when I see it on YouTube!

[tetra316 0]

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Icarus has a set price point as well. I am sure aerodyne will soon with their new CEO.
.

How does where the canopy is manufactured then play in? Meaning a New Zealand Icarus canopy is much cheaper than one made in Spain. The difference can't all be due to foreign currency changes, right?

[rlucus 0]

Well after to speaking with a Icarus Rep about it... They have the same names and origins but both manufacturers have tweaked it enough that they are no longer similar enough to be considered the same.