Video camera limits and experience (and new tech)

[Trafficdiver 8]

Again I ask why? Why do you need a camera before 200 jumps? How is your skydiving career hurt if you don't wear a camera prior to that?

You can't debrief your 4 way jump? Who fucking cares you have 200 jumps you're going to suck anyway. Hire a camera guy if you're really that guns ho.

So what if 200 jumps is arbitrary? It seems to be a fine starting point. No one that I know of has died because they didn't have a camera on.

[JWest 0]

Trafficdiver

Again I ask why? Why do you need a camera before 200 jumps? How is your skydiving career hurt if you don't wear a camera prior to that?

You can't debrief your 4 way jump? Who fucking cares you have 200 jumps you're going to suck anyway. Hire a camera guy if you're really that guns ho.

So what if 200 jumps is arbitrary? It seems to be a fine starting point. No one that I know of has died because they didn't have a camera on.

We do not need a camera before 200 jumps we want one. We are going to suck and we know that. Being able to debrief we have the ability to see why we sucked/what went wrong and improve on it. Hire a camera guy every jump or spent the money on a camera? If for some reason we don't already own one the latter is much more cost affective. Some of don't get to jump as often and we want to get the most out of the jumps we are able to do.

[Trafficdiver 8]

JWest

***Again I ask why? Why do you need a camera before 200 jumps? How is your skydiving career hurt if you don't wear a camera prior to that?

You can't debrief your 4 way jump? Who fucking cares you have 200 jumps you're going to suck anyway. Hire a camera guy if you're really that guns ho.

So what if 200 jumps is arbitrary? It seems to be a fine starting point. No one that I know of has died because they didn't have a camera on.

We do not need a camera before 200 jumps we want one.

Some people want to do night jumps when they get their A license. Some want to pull at 1500'. Some want to fly a wingsuit at 50 jumps. The rules we have agsinst theses are written in blood.

[JWest 0]

Trafficdiver

******Again I ask why? Why do you need a camera before 200 jumps? How is your skydiving career hurt if you don't wear a camera prior to that?

You can't debrief your 4 way jump? Who fucking cares you have 200 jumps you're going to suck anyway. Hire a camera guy if you're really that guns ho.

So what if 200 jumps is arbitrary? It seems to be a fine starting point. No one that I know of has died because they didn't have a camera on.

We do not need a camera before 200 jumps we want one.

Some people want to do night jumps when they get their A license. Some want to pull at 1500'. Some want to fly a wingsuit at 50 jumps. The rules we have agsinst theses are written in blood.

No arguments coming from me. Just wanted to inform you why we wanted one.

[NWFlyer 2]

JWest

We are going to suck and we know that. Being able to debrief we have the ability to see why we sucked/what went wrong and improve on it. Hire a camera guy every jump or spent the money on a camera? If for some reason we don't already own one the latter is much more cost affective. Some of don't get to jump as often and we want to get the most out of the jumps we are able to do.

Your video is going to suck, too, and be of limited (if any) utility as a debriefing tool. It's a weaksauce justification for using one. Everyone wants their GoPro on the skydive, and they want all their friends to have GoPros on the skydive so they can maximize the chances that out of 13 minutes of crappy footage (2 minutes in the plane, 1 minute of freefall, 5 minutes of canopy ride, 5 minutes of running around the landing area high-fiving and talking about how totally fucking badass that jump was, dood we almost got a dock this time) you might have one or two or three screen grabs that aren't ridiculously boring that you can put up on Facebook or Instagram or whatever the fuck social network is the new new thing these days so your friends can all be like "OMG dude you're so fucking rad!" or whatever the fuck adjective is the new new thing these days for expressing that you're totes impressed that your friend is a skydiver.

And you kids get off my lawn.

(All that said, TK brings up some interesting points about trying to rethink the approach to this given that teeny tiny cameras aren't going away, nor are the kidz that want to use them. As someone who, in 10 years/1400+ jumps in the sport never once slapped a camera on my head, I'll defer to the folks who know more about camera stuff than I do).

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[peek 20]

billvon

>You're the kind of guy that doesn't see anything wrong with texting while driving, ain't cha?

That's something that's only a problem for old people who can't multitask as well as the new generation.

You mean that's why I wander into the other lane when I take a drink of my beer? Cause I'm old? Hmmph!

[stayhigh 2]

10 year and 1400 jumps and no POV video?

that's kinda sad, and that is not that many jumps either.

i think people should have gopro on as soon as they get their a license. it provides the best chance of capturing carnage video and other OMGs.

Have them put on as soon as possible so that none of them will want to have GoPro over their head once they hit 200.

let them film their barrel rolls, flips, and 5 min canopy ride under something 190s, I'm all about it.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[DSE 3]

stayhigh

i think people should have gopro on as soon as they get their a license. it provides the best chance of capturing carnage video and other OMGs.

Have them put on as soon as possible so that none of them will want to have GoPro over their head once they hit 200.

let them film their barrel rolls, flips, and 5 min canopy ride under something 190s, I'm all about it.

There is some genuine value to this...I have uploaded several very helpful "training videos" about 'what not to do' thanks to low-timers doing foolish things. A couple, you don't get to see because they end up un-alive. But there is value in those "oops" moments. Thankfully YouTube is filled with them, great training aids.

[stayhigh 2]

We need more of them. More HD, More slow mo.

I suggest front and back facing cam mandatory for those who have less than 100 jumps.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[gowlerk 1,901]

Quote

There is some genuine value to this...I have uploaded several very helpful "training videos" about 'what not to do' thanks to low-timers doing foolish things. A couple, you don't get to see because they end up un-alive. But there is value in those "oops" moments. Thankfully YouTube is filled with them, great training aids.

I have a buddy who 15 years ago figured out that it must be the video camera that was causing all the problems. Because every time he saw pictures of an incident there was a camera involved.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Bluhdow 31]

gowlerk

I have a buddy who 15 years ago figured out that it must be the video camera that was causing all the problems. Because every time he saw pictures of an incident there was a camera involved.

Hahaha, perfect!

I sometimes wonder how many of the camera incidents are correlation rather than causation.

There are, most definitely, obvious examples of camera distraction causing problems. We've all seen them. There are also examples of AADs, RSLs, and even main canopies causing problems.

Every piece of gear we strap on has the potential to cause an issue. But we have to evaluate it and decide if the pros outweigh the cons. The cons with a camera are shrinking alongside their physical size. It's easy to demonstrate snag hazards to a student on the ground. Trying to convince them that they are too foolish to pay attention to the ground while filming though? That's a tougher argument to have, no matter how true it may be.

You know why the D.A.R.E. program failed to keep kids off drugs? Because instead of providing proper education it was just a giant scare tactic. You know why the 200 jump rule is failing to keep kids off cameras?

Apex BASE
#1816

[cruelpops 0]

Bluhdow

***I have a buddy who 15 years ago figured out that it must be the video camera that was causing all the problems. Because every time he saw pictures of an incident there was a camera involved.

Hahaha, perfect!

You know why the 200 jump rule is failing to keep kids off cameras?

Because it isn't a rule, it's a recommendation.

[NWFlyer 2]

stayhigh

10 year and 1400 jumps and no POV video?

that's kinda sad, and that is not that many jumps either.

I know, right? Definitely shouldn't claim to be a skydiver with that weak-sauce excuse for a jump total and no camera to show how badass I am.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[jumpwally 0]

Hey,,thats quite nice,,,anyone have experience with it ? looks like it would " safe up " 50% of the badass idiots....

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[stayhigh 2]

I mean you are too late to have a video now..

No one wants to have a gopro over their head once they hit 1000 jumps, unless they are getting paid.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[jclalor 12]

So when the new jumper completes jump #200, he now has the choice between a WS jump and a Go-Pro for jump #201. It seems like an odd sequence of progression.

[billvon 2,379]

>You mean that's why I wander into the other lane when I take a drink of my beer?
>Cause I'm old? Hmmph!

You just don't understand how newer drivers are so much faster/better/more trained than old time jumpers. I mean, when you learned to drive, there was no such thing at Grand Theft Auto with drunk-driving mode - so you just don't have the kind of experience and training a newer driver has.

[mxk 1]

jclalor

So when the new jumper completes jump #200, he now has the choice between a WS jump and a Go-Pro for jump #201. It seems like an odd sequence of progression.

If you get your C license right at 200, yes, it does seem odd. My jump 201 was a wingsuit first flight course and I still had an A license at that point. So in essence, USPA is saying that you need more skills to jump with a camera (C license) than a wingsuit (A license, 200 jumps). I haven't jumped with a camera yet, so I don't know.

The difference is that you can't just put a wingsuit on and go. It's 200 jumps minimum to take the first flight course with a coach, which was several hours of ground instruction and preparation. Once you're out of the airplane, however, it's not as if the coach can do anything to help you. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the recommendations used to be 200 jumps for the first flight course, or 500 to jump without a coach.

[peek 20]

NWFlyer

... Definitely shouldn't claim to be a skydiver with that weak-sauce excuse for a jump total and no camera to show how badass I am.

But dear, you are an incredible bad-ass on dropzone.com, and have been for years. A USPA National Director candidate and everything! Who needs a GoPro when you have that going for you?

[billvon 2,379]

>The difference is that you can't just put a wingsuit on and go.

Well, in some places you can. (And I have heard very impassioned arguments that that should be OK. It's their life, they understand the risks, they are adults, nanny state etc.)

[kallend 1,619]

mxk

***So when the new jumper completes jump #200, he now has the choice between a WS jump and a Go-Pro for jump #201. It seems like an odd sequence of progression.

If you get your C license right at 200, yes, it does seem odd. My jump 201 was a wingsuit first flight course and I still had an A license at that point. So in essence, USPA is saying that you need more skills to jump with a camera (C license) than a wingsuit (A license, 200 jumps). I haven't jumped with a camera yet, so I don't know.

The difference is that you can't just put a wingsuit on and go. It's 200 jumps minimum to take the first flight course with a coach, which was several hours of ground instruction and preparation. Once you're out of the airplane, however, it's not as if the coach can do anything to help you. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the recommendations used to be 200 jumps for the first flight course, or 500 to jump without a coach.

Back when I did my first wingsuit jump it was more or less put on the wingsuit and go. I had a 10 minute briefing on how to put the suit (Birdman Classic 2) on my rig and that's about it.

I have around 1,000 WS jumps now but still won't jump with a camera.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[diablopilot 2]

billvon

>You're the kind of guy that doesn't see anything wrong with texting while driving, ain't cha?

That's something that's only a problem for old people who can't multitask as well as the new generation.

You need a sarcasm font, or I was mistaken about almost being injured/killed on the highways at least 3 separate times yesterday by youthful looking people driving cars paying attention to their phones.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[JWest 0]

diablopilot

***>You're the kind of guy that doesn't see anything wrong with texting while driving, ain't cha?

That's something that's only a problem for old people who can't multitask as well as the new generation.

You need a sarcasm font, or I was mistaken about almost being injured/killed on the highways at least 3 separate times yesterday by youthful looking people driving cars paying attention to their phones.

Let's not start this nonsense. Unless you explicitly saw them staring at their phone with their hand(s) on it you have no proof of your claim. It could have been an iPod, food, radio, plenty of other things that were not the phone or texting specifically.

Back on topic!

[stayhigh 2]

seriously, almost doesn't count.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[GoHuskers 0]

The POV Camera 200 jump rule is enforced beyond reason.

1. USPA is a seniority based organization. A year or so ago a jumper pulled dirty low high on marijuana, spinning line twists, low cutaway, fatality. Public outcry: Not Really, he made his decision, he was an adult, and he paid the price. End of story (condolences to the family and friends I might add)
The Chairman of the Safety and Training Committee of the USPA hospitalized himself and an innocent spectator on a very poor and frequent decision to swoop the spectator area. Public Outcry: Yes, but it didn't accomplish anything but make people lose confidence in the USPA.

2. Its a recommendation. There is the group member pledge for separating landing areas from high performance landing and regular landing areas. Yet DZ staff exit last on AFF jumps and spiral down through the main landing area as the fun jumpers are landing because they don't want to walk an extra 200 yards. A lot greater potential for catastrophy there than a GoPro.

3. If you stick strictly to safety for the sub-200 jumpers, do you really believe the most dangerous thing they do is jump a POV? I would say the group jumps they choose to go on are far more dangerous than the camera they use to film them. Add risk? sure. The standard dropzones stick to as if allowing it will result in certain death? Come on.

4. Waivering a 2,500 container opening altitude to 2,000 feet to placate the grumpy old jumpers is far more dangerous, will always be far more dangerous than jumping a POV under 200 jumps. The dangers in our sport are HP Canopies and opening low especially with HP canopies. Everything else pales in comparison statistically yet these are senior jumpers who understand the risk so they make their choices and live and die with them. Nevermind the fact that you can't point to a single fatality that was absolutely caused by a POV on a sub 200 jumper. Every single year people die on opening low after big formations on spinning canopies with low cutaways. EVERY single year.

I'm not saying that the recommendation for 200 jumps absolutely needs to change. I'm saying that community wide everything else we ignore or write off as jumper's choice is more dangerous.