Riggers help on Icarus...

[freefall80 0]

Any riggers that can help with Safire one 129's:

Before new line set: Openings were superb but flying and flareing were crap.

With new line set: Flying & landing awsome, openings are super spanky!!! HELP...

The lines were checked with the old ones, and were put on by a qualified rigger. Everything seams ok but no matter what I do the pack job, I GET SLAMMED & the slider slams down!!!

Two things:

1) I know Icarus dont release line trim info... but is there anyone who could PM me or my rigger some figures for a safire 129 to compaire my lines to.

2) I have heard about a performance upgrade being done to safires which cured hard openings... what does that entail? (I think part of it was increasing or decreasing the brake stow setting?)

Any advice will be greatly appreachated.

(2x Safire ones, both 129's. DOM: 1998 & 2002.

Thanks...

[freefall80 0]

I know this has been covered before from searching on here, but I cant find the info I need...

[BIGUN 1,050]

(EDIT: Not a rigger... just been jumping safires since 1999)

Assuming you said its a safire1 and not a safire2...

I loved my safire1 for its flying and swooping characteristics, but the openings left a lot to be desired so I would roll the nose four times on each side and stuff them in their requisite side of the the center cell about 12 inches.

Then the line set mod came out and I thought it would make the openings better, but all it did was change the angle of the canopy where my swoop point changed and I lost a lot of ground coverage and the openings did not change.

I had a 189 loaded at 1.3.... So depending on your loading, rolling the nose may not work AT ALL. If you're unfamiliar with rolling the nose and stuffing them in the center cell, please have someone more experienced or a long-time rigger show you how, If not done symmetrically; one side will open first and can get to tossing you around - especially on a 129. Please understand that I'm not questioning your jump experience; just advising you if you've never done or seen a nose-rolled pack job.

There is also another option - you can get test larger sliders in increments to slow down the openings.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[freefall80 0]

Yes, its a Safire 1.

Thanks for the pointers but ive already done the nose rolling stuff. Ive done everything you can think of to a packjob & nothing atall and it makes no difference.... SMACK!!

Its weird as they opening fine on the old line sets & I did nothing special in the packjob.

[BIGUN 1,050]

I

Quote

ts weird as they opening fine on the old line sets & I did nothing special in the packjob.

I don't know what it was or why they felt it necessary to change the trim on the lineset modification. Like you, I liked my Safire1 just fine with the old lineset, but I needed to get the lineset replaced and had Mel do it. When it came back, it was just different and increasingly frustrating. I ultimately sold it at a deep discount and went with an s2, but alas, the swoop ground coverage that I was getting from the s1 with the old lineset was just never to return.

Sounds like you're going to have to try to incrementalize your way up on the slider size to buffer the openings some, but at this point feel its best to hand this issue off to a rigger. Sorry.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Ronaldo 0]

Assuming that the lineset is correct and it is Vectran (no trim variation) I suggest you consider installing an h-mod on the nose. Check with your rigger if he is able to do it. It costs about $150, should cure your opening issues and improve performance (which you already like)
I've never heard of h-mod on Safires and I always thought they opened nice but I think it would be worth the shot.
Safe skies

Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

[sd-slider 0]

After exactly 24 smoothe openings and great flares.....my Safire 2 260 exploded last weekend on #25!

Upon deployment, stood up and watched the snivle as I always do, (occasionally tugging the rears at times to fully inflate the end cells and speed up the deployment).....WHAM! As I reached for the rears this time however, I got yanked hard to the left before I could even get hold of them. Felt like I was smacked in the rib cage with a 2x4 and right hand was slammed in a car door!

When I finally looked up again I had a ~40" tear along the seam of cell 5 on the bottom and a ~12" tear on the topskin on the opposite side of the label. Both tears were at the rear of the canopy.

Hands on my handles I watched as the tears did not spread and decided to do a control check @ ~2300 ft.

Two deep flares and two left/right turns convinced me I could land it and hopefully find out more on the ground.

I have no idea what happened and I hope Icarus customer service is as good as I've heard.

The long and short of it is I have jumped two different S2's and both had sweet(long......., but sweet) openings and great flaring.

Anvil Brother #69

Sidelined with a 5mm C5-C6 herniated disk...
Back2Back slammers and 40yr old fat guys don't mix!

[pilot-one 0]

I had the same problem with my Safire 1. Mel at skyworks did a couple of things that made it better but is still slammed the crap out me every single time. What I finally did to get softer openings was replace it with a Pilot. Now I'm a very happy camper.

[masterrigger1 2]

Jack,
It sounds like you had a canopy that had been modified to begin with.

Did you buy it new or used?

Safire I's from Icarus' standpoint, never changed the trim.

There were some Safire I's that were built in the USA, that had some problems. Again some, not all!

They usually opened hard, but flew well after opening.

To resolve the problem, the upper contol lines were offset in their lengths. This is the only thing that was ever changed.
The lower contol lines, and suspension lines remained the same as before.

A lot of people heard about the "Mod" and wanted it installed. Some liked it...some did not!

The way to know if you have a "modified" canopy or not is to look at the lengths of the UST's.

A standard canopy has all 4 of the UST's the same length.

On a modified canopy, UST #1 is longest, then UST#5, Then UST #2, and finally UST#3 is the shortest.

To take a "modified canopy back to standard, just shorten UST 1,2, and 5 to be the same length as #3.


Cheers,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[Swanee 0]

My Safire 1 manual says to psycho pack it which I have done since it was new. 1700 jumps later never a hint of a hard opening and one chop, which was not packing related.
hope this helps.

[freefall80 0]

Right then... thanks for your help everyone (although most of you didnt read my post properly).

Thought id put up my findings, incase anyone else finds they have this problem:

Thoroughly measured lines on both my canopies and checked to trim chart with my rigger (Thank you). All spot on except the break lines were 1 3/4 inches too long on both... made the ajustments... waited 10 days for the weather to get jumpable...

And hey presto... 1 is back to supper smooth snively openings and the other is not far behind, just abit of fine tuning is needed I think.

Thank god for that, I was unsure weather 1 and a bit inches of shortened break line would make any difference at all... but there we go.

Cheers all.