Synapse 0 #1 June 30, 2008 Sooo, I just got off the phone with Square-1 and they quoted the lead time on a Vector order as 25 weeks! (pause for effect...) twenty-five. I was anticipating ~12 weeks, which is no short time when you are gear hungry, but I certainly wasn't ready for 25. Mirage has an estimated 10-12 week time per Square-1, but the Mirage website quotes it as 6-8 weeks, so maybe S1 is adding some buffer in there as a CYA. Regardless, I'm now seriously considering going with Mirage simply because I can't wait on the Vector. So, a couple questions to the general community: - Is it common for lead times to grow this much during this time of year or is it a year round thing? - Does anyone know if the actual time quoted from UPT differs from the 25 week quote I got from S1? - Anyone got a V3 that can hold a Sabre2 170 (348M) they wanna sell??? :) -synThey who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #2 July 1, 2008 welcome to reality. It sucks. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #3 July 1, 2008 Keep this under your hat - but Art at the Skydive Store quoted me about 18 weeks for a Vector III. I don't know if that's realistic or not, but I thought you might wanna know. Still, that's better than 26 weeks for a new Javelin, yes? There's always Dolphin. No, really - just kidding! T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #4 July 1, 2008 Yeah, it sucks. You can probably have a racer tomorrow too. Sometimes there's a reason for a long wait... Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheSecret 0 #5 July 1, 2008 I ordered a Vector at the end of December and got it at the end of May.Life is good Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synapse 0 #6 July 1, 2008 Quote Sometimes there's a reason for a long wait... Is it b/c they need more sewing machines? Because that was my guess! Seems like if the demand is constantly that high, having a higher capacity for production would give you an edge on the competition. But hey, I'm no sales guru, I'm sure someone did the cost/benefit analysis and decided that the wait was better. -shrug- -synThey who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #7 July 1, 2008 Gear vendors used to place orders for rigs with scheduled delivery dates. If they sold the rig, they changed the order to whatever a customer specified and had a custom rig made. If they didn't sell the rig, it got built anyways with inoffensive colors and added to their in-stock list. Having arived at my final container size years ago I haven't paid attention to if this is still the case, but it can explain different delivery dates for gear ordered through different channels. A few gear makers also finish container construction up the point where they have to decide on harness size. You may be able to get such a half-finished rig quicker that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #8 July 1, 2008 Quote Quote Sometimes there's a reason for a long wait... Is it b/c they need more sewing machines? Because that was my guess! Seems like if the demand is constantly that high, having a higher capacity for production would give you an edge on the competition. But hey, I'm no sales guru, I'm sure someone did the cost/benefit analysis and decided that the wait was better. -shrug- -syn Most of the big rig makers business comes from foreign and domestic militaries. You could be in line behind a contract. Skydiving is a seasonal sport in much of the world. To meet the varying demand the rig makers can either lay-off people during the slow season (which isn't nice) or have longer backlogs. Longer backlogs are common. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #9 July 1, 2008 Quote - Anyone got a V3 that can hold a Sabre2 170 (348M) they wanna sell??? :) I have 2 i dont think i want to sell. As they say everthing has a price The wait is long but damn these rigs are nice. Top of the line in my opinion. I chose vector for the safety and look.Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synapse 0 #10 July 1, 2008 Quote I have 2 i dont think i want to sell. 15,000... final offer. They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #11 July 1, 2008 The current wait time for a Micron is if you order this week it will be completed towards the end of November. AI have just booked a couple of slots. In my opinion it is worth the wait. So the lead time is about 20 weeks. Where square 1 got a lead time of 25 weeks i imagine they are just quoting a few extra weeks to be on the safe side and not to dissapoint. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 0 #12 July 1, 2008 Quote Quote Sometimes there's a reason for a long wait... Is it b/c they need more sewing machines? Because that was my guess! Seems like if the demand is constantly that high, having a higher capacity for production would give you an edge on the competition. But hey, I'm no sales guru, I'm sure someone did the cost/benefit analysis and decided that the wait was better. -shrug- -syn We are currently working on tripling our production facility size, unfortunately, building the addition, and hiring and training employees takes time. Our military orders do not slow down our sport orders, as they are made on an entirely different line with separate employees and machines. There is also something to be said about demand when a company can make you a custom made rig in 2-3 weeks. We are not scheduling delivery for the end of November out of spite; it is just that that is how long the line is to get a custom Vector 3. When you go to the amusement park, you can get on the Ferris Wheel in no time, but if you want to ride the best roller coaster, with all the fancy loops and turns, you usually have to wait in line for a while. We are working hard to reduce out lead times, but these things take time. We appreciate the fact that the orders keep coming in regardless of our 20+ week lead times, and I cannot wait for the day when the expansion is complete and fully staffed and I can start quoting people 8-12 weeks again. Mark Klingelhoefer United Parachute Technologies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #13 July 1, 2008 edit: this was not in response to Mark's post above. We were typing at the same time Quote There's always Dolphin. No, really - just kidding! Why just kidding? There is function, there is style, and there is hype. I've known a lot of world class jumpers without sponsors who were jumping anything but the latest and "greatest". IT"S MARKETING PEOPLE! If it saves your life who the fuck cares what it says on the side? I know, I know. People want image, they want prestige, they want designer labels. I guess I've gotten old enough not to care. Hmm, DeBeers limits the diamond supply to increase price, Booth limits the Micron supply. Booth once lamented in 1989 that he wished he could sell a rig for as much as the canopy manufacturers could sell a canopy. He's got his wish. Okay, I like to look moderataly respectable, and be comfortable in the air. But my newest rig is 11 years old and it works just fine. My second and third rig are older and work for their purposes.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #14 July 1, 2008 Quote Gear vendors used to place orders for rigs with scheduled delivery dates. If they sold the rig, they changed the order to whatever a customer specified and had a custom rig made. If they didn't sell the rig, it got built anyways with inoffensive colors and added to their in-stock list. Having arived at my final container size years ago I haven't paid attention to if this is still the case, but it can explain different delivery dates for gear ordered through different channels. A few gear makers also finish container construction up the point where they have to decide on harness size. You may be able to get such a half-finished rig quicker that way. I'm not sure if any of the dealers still buy (or get to buy) slots for rigs like you say, but I thought at one time "back in the day" they used to do that. I'd be curious if they still do. As for the half-finished rig with somewhat generic colors you can live with that you just then give them your measurements and they build the harness to match, I've heard of that too, but not sure if they do that or not. Again, I'd be curious to know if any of the mfgr's do that. Anyway, thanks to Mark too for posting. At least its not 56+ weeks for a new Vector like it was several years back... To the Op... if you've got a rig already, then maybe 25 weeks isn't so bad if you've really got your heart set on a Vector? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #15 July 1, 2008 Quote I'm not sure if any of the dealers still buy (or get to buy) slots for rigs like you say, but I thought at one time "back in the day" they used to do that. I'd be curious if they still do. As for the half-finished rig with somewhat generic colors you can live with that you just then give them your measurements and they build the harness to match, I've heard of that too, but not sure if they do that or not. Again, I'd be curious to know if any of the mfgr's do that. I don't know either if any still do these things but I bought both, a rig with a reserved slot and a rig with an unfinished harness. Of course then the dealer get's to 'market' that slot for a premium, keeping others from getting their orders in line.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #16 July 1, 2008 QuoteAs for the half-finished rig with somewhat generic colors you can live with that you just then give them your measurements and they build the harness to match, I've heard of that too, but not sure if they do that or not. Aerodyne do this with their elements range. 4 week delivery and they make canopies to go with the colours. Simple black containers with a colour 'V' strip down the middle. I have no issues waiting 20 weeks for a Micron with all the bits and pieces. Maybe if it was my first rig the wait would be a bit overwhelming but i am not brand new to the sport so i know what to expect and plan for that. Last quote i got on a Icarus canopy was 24 weeks! I have jumped Icarus canopies and personaly love them so can understand the wait time. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synapse 0 #17 July 1, 2008 Mark, Thanks for the reply and the insight into what is going on at UPT... always nice to get it straight from the horse's mouth. :) Quote To the Op... if you've got a rig already, then maybe 25 weeks isn't so bad if you've really got your heart set on a Vector? Therein lies the problem. I'm using a loaner rig right now, but that won't be available much longer... once it is gone, I'm going to have to start renting. My bank account isn't looking forward to that at all, so the number of jumps I'll be able to make will be -drastically- reduced. Maybe the best thing to do would be to buy a used container that isn't necessarily what I'm looking for and then sell it once the V3 comes in. -shrug- -synThey who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 0 #18 July 1, 2008 QuoteAs for the half-finished rig with somewhat generic colors you can live with that you just then give them your measurements and they build the harness to match, I've heard of that too, but not sure if they do that or not. Again, I'd be curious to know if any of the mfgr's do that. Anyway, thanks to Mark too for posting. We make these "unfinished containers" when we have a lull in production and we need to "keep people busy". Unfortunatly, we have not been in this situation for about 2.5 years. Right now, everything is about lowering our lead times. so when we have slots open up, we simply grab some rigs that are scheduled for the next week and start producing them. Most people don't complain when their container is done 1-2 weeks early because of this. Again, we are trying everything possible on our end to bring down our lead times. Mark Klingelhoefer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michalm21 0 #19 July 1, 2008 Mark, Just wanted to officially (at least for dz.com) thank you for your assistance with my rig. It was ready a few days before quoted date (19 weeks total) and what else can I say - it is great! I love my V3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poe62 0 #20 July 1, 2008 Yep, mine too! It made for a GREAT Christmas present. ~Nikki http://www.facebook.com/poe62 Irgity Dirgity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #21 July 1, 2008 It seems that UPT Vector is victim of its own success. A lot of people want now the Skyhook and why not add the riser cover with magnets. That's why I always sell my rig and order a new one in the Fall. That way, UPT Vector has the whole winter to make itt ready for the next Spring.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
