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crashtested

Bad experiances with rig manufactures

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I've had it with PDF, due to there lack of giving a shit about the avarage sport jumper.
I'm in to my 2nd year of jumping now, but have been held back as i am still rigless, i know there are a few out there who don't like private greivences / disputes comming out in the open, but i'm not getting anywhere talking face to face with PDF

If i came into my resturaunt and ordered a steak, i would expect to see it that evening, if something went wrong in the kitchen, then i would expect to be told, if they could not make it that night, i would expect an apology.

PDF if your out there, If things are up the shitter, just make an effort with your customers, it may be the only rig that i buy from you in my life, but that should not give you the right to treat me like a fool, bend your self over backwards in making me a smaller rig, and not telling me things are not possible.

I know i ordered a 190, but that was 9 months ago, I now fly a 170 when i hire rigs out, and by the time i get it in december I may want a 150 pending on my progress..

You fucked up, i'm living with it, now show some balls, and make amends.

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I know i ordered a 190, but that was 9 months ago, I now fly a 170 when i hire rigs out, and by the time i get it in december I may want a 150 pending on my progress..


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Cancel the 190...order a 120, in a couple years when it comes ~you'll be ready! ;)











~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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Mate, this is a serious issue.

Can you not get your money back?

18 months for people to get their rigs is amazing. I imagine it is the same for everyone that jumped on their special offer.

You see if you could get your money back you could have a full custom made brand new rig Micron, whatever canopies and you would have it delivered around the 18th November. Wings or aerodyne you would have it delivered a bit sooner.. The exact canopy that you want now and you would not live forever pissed off and hating your rig because of the trauma you have been through.

Demand your money back, send me $5k and we will hook you up a Micron with aerodyne canopies and have it to you at the end of november. Hell, you can pay it off if you need to.

Don;t demand it back from Maddy as it is kind of past her now as she has ordered it etc and it would have to come out of her pocket. You need to phone PDF up and tell them that you are not happy and would like your distributor to be fully refunded.

I am not sure what consequences PDF have for orders that are later pulled out from but i imagine if you demand a refund the worst case will be that it will cost you 5%. Best case under the circumstances it will not cost you a cent.


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

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I know i ordered a 190, but that was 9 months ago, I now fly a 170 when i hire rigs out, and by the time i get it in december I may want a 150 pending on my progress..

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huh? you are mad, because you ordered a larger rig than you now want, and you are mad because they are not going to throw the rig you originally ordered in the trash and start over for you?

How were they supposed to know that you would be downsizing at an alarming and possibly unsafe rate.

Did anyone ever suggest to you to buy used gear, for this very reason? Or did you not consider you might downsize when you ordered it. When I ordered my rig, I ordered a container for a 170/150 main, while I was still jumping a 210. I'm quite content with still jumping my 170. Could I go to a 150, yes. could I handle a 150? yes. but what is the point of downsizing, when I still haven't mastered the 170 *169 technically* . I think it is time that you own up to your mistake in purchasing, and let i t be.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

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HE has not made a mistak. He has been waiting 9 months for his rig to be built that was meant to take 3 months. he now has to wait until December, a total of 15 months because of their backlog.
Not his fault at all. They did a promotion and got 400 orders in one week and are up the shit with it now.


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

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Ok, that does suck that it is taking so long. but I still stand a lby what I said. .. If he had recieved the rig in the 3 months time, the only difference would be that he now has a rig that he is not satisfied w ith due to wanting to downsize. He would still be mad either way.
CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

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Think about it like this...

You buy a brand new rig knowing that in 3 months you will be wanting to jump a 190 for the next 100 or so jumps. So you buy a container that will house a 190 and then later can downsize to a 170 so you know this rig is good for a couple of years if not many.

3 months comes and you want to jump your 190 so your rig has not arrived you decide to hire gear with a 190. You jump this gear for 6 months. Bring us to today. You then jump this gear for another 6 months.

Now you are ready for your 170. Wow my brand new custom made rig that i just ordered 15 months ago has turned up with a 190 in it. yay, but the problems is that he is ready for a 170. He now thinks about the purchase and realises that his rig was designed for a size that is pointless to him as he is past that because of their fault and never got to use it for half the life it was worth to him.

Not only did he have to hire kit to jump the 190 and lose money there he now ends up with a rig that will only hold one canopy size relevant to him. 12 months ago if delivered onm time it would of been good for him for 2 canopy sizes. All customer buy a rig that are good for them for 2 canopy sizes. He does not get that out of this rig now..... he would have though if he got it on time.


I have ordered around 150 gear orders in the past 18 months and not one manufacturer has taken a day longer than they said they would.
This manufacturer has taken 12 months longer. They should rectify their mistake at the very very least.


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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Ok, that does suck that it is taking so long. but I still stand a lby what I said. .. If he had recieved the rig in the 3 months time, the only difference would be that he now has a rig that he is not satisfied w ith due to wanting to downsize. He would still be mad either way.



NOt so much, my main problem with PDF is that they still have not made the rig, thats ok.. shit happens, so we make the call, and say " look it has taken 12 months more to get the rig than you quoted... you guys have fucked up... as a way of showing good customer relations you should try and help me out.

My needs have now changed, i would like a smaller rig so that i can keep the same container for 10 years or whatever, my weight and stufff will mean that i won't go below a 150 for quite sometime. so do me a favour and say , not a problem, there response was, " don't worry you can fit a 170 in this already" (but not a 150 safely)
"BTW the canopy will be stock rather than the colours you paid for" (thanks for the effort boys)

I'm not bothered about colour or much at all, but if i'm pissing the best part of $5000 away i want somthing that will last me for more than 2 years.

If i had the rig after 3 months I would have been soooo happy, and about £300 better off. (rig hire)

Bigway you have hit the nail on the head...

PDF please contact me, and make amends, stop being so......French??

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You are already jumping a reserve at 50 pounds over the manufactures max weight maybe PDF is just stalling to keep you alive.

Sparky



I take my clothes and shoes off, then puke up breakfast as part of my malfunction drills...
If it gets really hairy i shit myself as well

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PDF please contact me, and make amends, stop being so......French??




MAte, That attitude will not get you anywhere. Dont ruin a thread that may actually help your case with that nonsense.

I will edit my quote if i see you have deleted it.


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

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At the moment I would not order anything from PdF, they are going through a rough patch or whatever anyway they are impossible to get ahold of and have been for some time. A shame, since I like atoms and especially techno reserves a lot. I'd strongly advise you to give up on them and order somewhere else.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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Bigway, as a person who's parents lives in france (10years) and after growing up there, i feel it is acceptable for me to take the piss out of the Shoulder shrug attitude of french suppliers (not just parachuting)

It is why the economy has never really taken off, 35 hr working wks, and employment laws, which make it almost impossible to sack somone despit poor production or service means that you just have to accept this attitude whilst in the country.

But you were'nt to know about my first hand experiance bigway, i understand how the comment mght have looked a bit anglo piss taking.

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PDF suck!!!!!
I have one of their rigs, but due to their lack of customer service I will never buy anything off them again.
It seems they are still bad.
Back in 2003 it took me a year to get my new rig from them, things obviously haven't changed. I went through a dealer and even they were kept in the dark and couldn't get a response from PDF about delivery. They have no idea about customer service or simply don't give a crap. To add to my pain the rig was supplied with a dodgy reserve ripcord that needed replacing. DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM THEM , they don't give a shit about their customers.
I have purchased skydiving equipment from other manufacturers from various places on this globe, airtec, B&L, ETC, they all have GREAT customer service.
Why are PDF soooooooooo BAD?
They suck do not buy anything from them.

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Bigway, as a person who's parents lives in france (10years) and after growing up there, i feel it is acceptable for me to take the piss out of the Shoulder shrug attitude of french suppliers (not just parachuting)

It is why the economy has never really taken off, 35 hr working wks, and employment laws, which make it almost impossible to sack somone despit poor production or service means that you just have to accept this attitude whilst in the country.

But you were'nt to know about my first hand experiance bigway, i understand how the comment mght have looked a bit anglo piss taking.



Crashtested, this has nothing related with French laws. PdF manufacture is in RSA and the 35h work law doesn't apply in this counrty. I am a parachute manufacturer and for sure France is not the country to be for such business if you want to make money. My company is in France but not the manufacture. The after sale service or relation with customers has nothing to do with where the company is established.
Jérôme Bunker
Basik Air Concept
www.basik.fr
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Le-Luc-France/BASIK-AIR-CONCEPT/172133350468

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Well Said.

Now lets try and stop the French bashing in this thread as it will just end up in speakers corner.

It is about time PDF responded to this thread as there has been so many of them this year.

This is a serious problem and some sort of explanation for those customers who do not have inside knowledge need a formal response.

If you are selling a rig that is due to be made in 3 months, for it to only take 15 months minimum then that customer deserves to have the offer of a full refund or that company should make the changes that need to be made so that customer is not left with a rig that is now no longer suitable to their needs.

I would hop that PDF as a reputable business will come forward and give a formal explanation and tell the skydiving community what they are willing to do to keep the reputable company a popular one.

PDF make some awesome products. The Atom legend is an excellent container, however with the problems they are going through maybe we should support them as they have contributed so much to the sport we all love. It is just hard to support them while their customers are all being let down in making changes to accomodate the customer and not offering any formal statement to their loyal fans or future customers.


PDF.... you have done alot for the sport and you produce a fantastic product, Dont ruin all these years of work by standing by, reading these complaints and not offering any sort of explanation. At the moment i think it is safe to say that you are losing alot of credibility in the community that you are such a big part of.

I hope you guys dont come in and make excuses, just say how it is and offer some form of solution to your customers problems. I for one dont want to see any skydiving manufacturers go under and i belive this fuck up because of some excellent marketing and sales techniques that have backfired might lost alot of future business.

Good Luck PDF, but please try and fix this mess instead of ginoring it hoping it will be forgotten once you have got through this busy period.


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

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Good things come to those who wait ;-)

Crashtested is a nice chap and knows I am doing what I can for him and I don't blame him for his comments...(if I hadn't spent all my money in the wind tunnel I would happily buy him a rig and give it to him but sadly it all blew away so thats not an option right now... sorry mate :-) )

Good news though... we are now receiving PDF kit from the PF Spirit offer, it is coming slowly but surely....it has not been 12 months yet!! :-)

There is light at the end of the tunnel and the sizing is being dealt with as we speak.

Anyway thats all I will say on a public forum about this issue for now. Please feel free to pm me should you wish!






;)

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Mate, this is a serious issue.

Can you not get your money back?

18 months for people to get their rigs is amazing. I imagine it is the same for everyone that jumped on their special offer.

You see if you could get your money back you could have a full custom made brand new rig Micron, whatever canopies and you would have it delivered around the 18th November. Wings or aerodyne you would have it delivered a bit sooner.. The exact canopy that you want now and you would not live forever pissed off and hating your rig because of the trauma you have been through.

Demand your money back, send me $5k and we will hook you up a Micron with aerodyne canopies and have it to you at the end of november. Hell, you can pay it off if you need to.

Don;t demand it back from Maddy as it is kind of past her now as she has ordered it etc and it would have to come out of her pocket. You need to phone PDF up and tell them that you are not happy and would like your distributor to be fully refunded.

I am not sure what consequences PDF have for orders that are later pulled out from but i imagine if you demand a refund the worst case will be that it will cost you 5%. Best case under the circumstances it will not cost you a cent.



Don't get me wrong here, but how does the reseller get hurt if the order is cancelled aand his money refunded? Obviously if it's still 5 months out the rig has not even been cut most likely. I fail to see how the resellar gets hurt here; it is my understanding that in most industries when the resale location recieves a product the seller has 30 days to remit payment to the manufacturer, is it different over there? Not that I want to screw the reseller but I would cancel the order and demand a full refund for my rig. If I bought a car that was a piece of crap I dont go to the factory, I go to the dealer.


Stay safe,


Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

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Possibly because the reseller will be making a profit built into the total cost of the rig price paid by the customer.

If that margin is for example 15%.. or $750 on a $5k rig.
Then they may have spent that portion of the money and paid their 'cost' amount direct to PDF for the rig...

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