Looking for a DPRE (chest or seat) in Buffalo/Niagara Falls NY area

[980 0]

The subject pretty much says it all.

I am looking for the closest DPRE to the Buffalo/Niagara Falls NY area in order to get my chest or seat rating.

I currently have a back rating.

thanks
Sam

[councilman24 36]

There are only 41 in total in the whole United States. According to the latest list I've found there are none in the state of New York.

List is here http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/b34649a533a0fc1c862571d800549e19/$FILE/AC183-32S.pdf

It is not current as Danny Page and Don Yarling are both still on the list and both deceased.

I travelled 600 miles to get to one.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Terry,

And this is why I am an advocate of eliminating these 'type' ratings.

If you can read the manual and pack a parachute then it makes no difference ( to me ) as to what 'type' rating you might have.

These are old, antiquated dinosaurs leftover from the '30's & '40's and have no real application in our current world.

Just my old $0.02 worth; others may not agree.

JerryBaumchen

PS) Maybe we should get a poll going on how other people feel about this. I do not know how to start a poll on this forum ( old guy with very limited computer skills ). Anyone care to volunteer?

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Jerry,

I disagree with that somewhat. I've come across Senior Riggers that all they've ever packed were sport (back) rigs with ram-air reserves, they do a great job on them, and not to take anything away from them on that, but they have no clue what to do with a pilot's bailout rig (back) with a round if presented to them to pack. A few more examples... Let alone a seat pack, a sport rig with a round reserve or a sport rig with a diapered square reserve (until recently, I knew of one that was still in service)... all irregardless of whether they had the manual (or not).

[tdog 0]

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Jerry,

I disagree with that somewhat. I've come across Senior Riggers that all they've ever packed were sport (back) rigs with ram-air reserves, they do a great job on them, and not to take anything away from them on that, but they have no clue what to do with a pilot's bailout rig (back) with a round if presented to them to pack. A few more examples... Let alone a seat pack, a sport rig with a round reserve or a sport rig with a diapered square reserve (until recently, I knew of one that was still in service)... all irregardless of whether they had the manual (or not).

It is required for a rigger to only pack what he knows how to do by the FARs.

Quote

§ 65.129 Performance standards:

(f) Exercise the privileges of his certificate and type rating unless he understands the current manufacturer's instructions for the operation involved and has—

§ 65.127 Facilities and equipment.
No certificated parachute rigger may exercise the privileges of his certificate unless he has at least the following facilities and equipment available to him:

(c) Enough packing tools and other equipment to pack and maintain the types of parachutes that he services.

Hence, if I do not have and understand what I am supposed to do, I can't pack it.

So I agree, the type rating should/could go away with perhaps a bit more clarification to the other language that indicates unless the rigger has sufficient experience and skill to interpret the instructions he cannot pack it.

[masterrig 1]

You mentioned something, that brought to mind, several folks who wanted to 'work' with me toward their Senior rating. Their only thing was... they only wanted to learn 'squares'. I turned them down. As I told them, there are rounds 'out there' and also, it is required they know rounds. The one rating I don't understand is 'chest'. I can sure see back and seat ratings. Maybe, you could help me understand the purpose of chest.

Thanks


Chuck

[skybytch 259]

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Maybe, you could help me understand the purpose of chest.

You don't have a chest mount reserve in your closet for use with your tertiary rig?

And you call yourself a rigger.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

I have to disagree with that too, tdog. Your quote-age of the FARs not withstanding, by your logic we could also get rid of the Master vs. Senior rigger ratings?

[tdog 0]

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I have to disagree with that too, tdog. Your quote-age of the FARs not withstanding, by your logic we could also get rid of the Master vs. Senior rigger ratings?

Nah... You need those ratings to show you UNDERSTAND the FARs and know the LIMITS of your ratings.

I look at it like the AFF instructor rating (USPA, not FAA).... I am a rated instructor. But I am not the right guy for the job to take a 100 pound girl into freefall, but give me a 230 pound guy and I can handle anything he gives me. Part of my rating is to know my limitations and expertise.

P.S. a wise man once said, it is not what you know that matters, but instead if you can find the answers... I have come across abnormalities in simple sport rig square reserves. I have a few people in my speeddial that have answered whatever I needed in milliseconds.

[councilman24 36]

My answer about the relatively small number of DPRE's has nothing to do with type ratings. Even if there were no type ratings, or square and round ratings, or other variations, there would still only be 41 DPRE's.

I'm willing to get rid of chest, lab, and back but would subsititute at least square and round.

Hmm, I guess other than the OP needs a DPRE to add a rating.

But you still need one to become a rigger and to become a Master Rigger, my last need. I'm considering applying to become a DPRE when I get moved and things settle down.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[tkhayes 126]

Call Mark Kruse at SKydive Crosskeys in Williamstown, NJ, he will help or steer you in the right direction

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Zig,

Quote

I disagree with that somewhat.

Fair enough; I never ask anyone to agree with me unless it is in the support of abortion rights. Even then I can be flexible, maybe .

My take is that if one is capable of reading and understanding a proper manual ( and note the use of the word 'proper' ), then that is all that should be required.

However, I would support the concept of two ratings, one for square and one for round.

I just think that this whole chest, seat, lap, and back rating thing is so outdated that it needs to be thrown back into the stone age from whence it came.

I was hoping someone would get a poll going ( as mentioned, I am incapable of doing so ) so that maybe, just maybe we could have some data to then present to PIA so that maybe, just maybe they would petition the FAA to change things.

I do believe, in today's world, going through the PIA is the proper channel to get things changed.

Thoughts, anyone????

JerryBaumchen

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

Maybe, you could help me understand the purpose of chest.

You don't have a chest mount reserve in your closet for use with your tertiary rig?

No.

And you call yourself a rigger.

Yes.


Chuck

[PhreeZone 15]

I know someone that has been trying to get their DPRE for about 2-3 years and it never seems to go anywhere since the FAA is still deciding how many rigger canidates an area needs to have before it shows a need for a DPRE.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Well, its not that I think you're "wrong", Jerry, per-say, its just that I'm trying to say that with respect to parachute rigging, Master Rigger, Senior Rigger, Back, Seat & Chest ratings show that one has gone through some rigor (no pun) to get those ratings. A common measure of achievement of skill and a credential to an outside observer. Certainly any rigger must have the proper reference material and tools. That, I don't disagree with. If you needed brain surgery though, would you seek out a surgeon that specialized in brain surgery and had the credentials to back it or would you go to some GP that has read a lot of books on brain surgery? They're both Doctors, right? Would you rather have the harness replaced in your Vector by any rigger that's managed to acquire a harness machine or Bill Booth?

While one can read some of the posts in this thread and see that some would think less ratings is the way to go... one can also find other threads around here where folks would seem to support increased regulations... tomes of directives and rules from both the FAA and/or mfgr's to take the responsibility off of individual riggers in the field, they can just look it up... maybe they wouldn't then need any particular rating, that, and if they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, they'd be good to go!

Like I said, I know Senior Riggers that all they ever pack is sport ram-air reserves and they do a wonderful job at that. I'd suppose I fall into that category as of late. Anyway, if they're cognizant of their limitations, as they should be, and adhere to them, then no harm done. However, what I'd fear in a world where the Back, Seat & Chest ratings have gone away would be some cock-sure "rigger" doing something he or she really shouldn't and doing some harm to someone. Sure, having or not having a rating may or may not stop such a maverick, but at least its a start.


Having said all of that... I will admit, I've known Senior Riggers that I felt were more skilled and conscientious then some Master Riggers I've meet or seen their work... but like I said, at least having the ratings is a start.

----

OBTW... I wouldn't disagree with you on abortion rights, just don't try to tell me its anything more than another form of Birth Control... but that's a topic for the Speaker's Corner.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Zig,

Well, it is OK to tell me that you think I am wrong; people have been doing so all of my life.

I am not advocating doing away with the Senior/Master Rigger ratings. I advocate doing away with the type ratings; chest, lap, etc.

I remember when the CrossBow first came on the market ( yes, I AM that old ) and some FAA-types were requiring riggers to log it as a chest repack. Nutz in my book, it was located on the back, i.e., back rating and logging.

What I do like ( from my limited knowledge of it ) is the Canadian system where the first 'riggers' only get to pack and very little else. Then they slowly, and with demonstrated experience, get additional 'ratings.' Their system has seperate ratings/'license'/etc for rounds & squares.

When I got my square rigger rating I had to find someone else who had gotten one from Para-Flite or from another Para-Flite rated rigger. I had read the Safety Flyer manual and thought that it was rather simple to pack the canopy ( even with their goofy braking system ). Based upon that experience is why I feel that if you can read and understand the manuals you can pack the rig.

I had hoped that some other folks would chime in on this issue; time will tell.

And I do appreciate your thoughts,

JerryBaumchen

[ripcord4 0]

Jerry, Zig and all,

Re: the "Chest Rating"....I have one and use it regularly. I belong to several WW II reenactment groups that jump using all military gear (SET-10"s, MC-1's, etc) and of course, the T10 chest reserve. The chest reserves need packing quarterly the same as square reserves so several riggers are kept busy using their "obsolete" rating. I also jump some of the "old" gear, too, if I didn't have my rating, who would pack my Tri-Conical and other 26' Lo-Po's? Let's not be in too much of a hurry to eliminate the rating. I have had a few riggers give me a blank stare when I asked if they would pack a round for me. Good thing I have my Obsolete, Useless ratings, huh?

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi ripcord,

What I am advocating would not change your being able to pack your chest pack.

I have packed plenty of chest packs and about 20 seat packs; I find almost no difference in the packing procedures. IMO, if you can pack one then you can pack the other.

I am advocating that we eliminate the chest, seat, etc type ratings and go to just being a rigger who can pack, whatever to a parachute.

As mentioned in one of my later posts, I would support the idea of a round rating vs a square rating.

I would still keep the Senior Rigger & Master Rigger rating. However, I do like the Canadian system where they have this Rigger A who can do little more than assemble, pack & replace parts.

Thanks for your input and I hope to hear from some other US riggers out there,

JerryBaumchen

[riggerrob 558]

A candidate for CSPA Rigger A rating choses to be tested on round or square canopies.
The he/she choses what type of container to be tested on: 1-pin sport, 2-pin sport, Pop-Top, chest or pilot emergency parachute.

The chest rating is only retained for historical purposes. Maybe once a year, an aspiring tandem instructor asks to strap on a chest-mounted reserve so he can fullfill the intentional cutaway requirement to earn a Strong Tandem Instructor rating.

Over the last year, I taught 4 CSPA Rigger A Course for a total of 16 candidates. Only one candidate asked to be tested on round canopies.

To earn additional type ratings, a Rigger A merely has to demonstrate competence - to another CSPA Rigger who is already rated on that type.

PEP ratings are only issued to riggers who already hold all the other ratings.

[ojibwe 0]

Aloha,
Kirk Smith in Ottawa IL ParaConcepts is excellent

MB 3864 Urantia Book and RUSH fan

[likestojump 3]

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Aloha,
Kirk Smith in Ottawa IL ParaConcepts is excellent

he is also very close to Niagara Falls... NOT

[PhreeZone 15]

Considering that to my knowledge Ohio does not have a DPRE and I'm not sure if Steve at Richmond is still offering exams Kirk at Chicago might be the closest. I believe that when Bardstown KY lost their lease the DPRE there may have quit taking offering tests also.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[mark 102]

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I am looking for the closest DPRE to the Buffalo/Niagara Falls NY area in order to get my chest or seat rating.

Do you need a DPRE? FAA 8900.1, Volume 5, Chapter 5, Section 9, paragraph 5-1341 Procedures, sub-paragraph D, "[T]ests are given by only designated parachute rigger examiners or by an FAA Airworthiness ASI with applicable parachute experience.." Most FSDOs have ASIs with rigger certificates, so I'd hope they'd be able to accommodate you. They might need your help to locate a test facility and equipment, but that's their job, isn't it?

Mark

[masterrigger1 2]

Mark,
OKC probably will reject the test if it is done by an ASI without recurrent DPRE training.

(most have trouble just properly endorsing Block V on the 8610-2 forms)

That is what I've been told anyway.....

Jerry,
The type ratings are here to stay, at least for awhile anyway.

I personally do about 20 Chest repacks a year and with the UC base rigs out now; I expect to see even more.

Cheers,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[980 0]

Quote

Mark,
OKC probably will reject the test if it is done by an ASI without recurrent DPRE training.

(most have trouble just properly endorsing Block V on the 8610-2 forms)

That is what I've been told anyway.....

Jerry,
The type ratings are here to stay, at least for awhile anyway.

I personally do about 20 Chest repacks a year and with the UC base rigs out now; I expect to see even more.

Cheers,
MEL

thanks for the info

Are there really that many UCC systems out there now?

Also about the UCC chest mount, is it built to take a ram-air reserve or only rounds?

I guess since there are no chest or seat DPREs anywhere near me, I should first find a chest or seat rated Senior Rigger in my gereal area, so I can tick off the 20 observed packjobs before embarking on a longer trip to get my test..