Stiletto 190 Question

[fpritchett64 0]

Hi

I've been contemplating asking this question because I'm sure I'll get flamed, and might even deserve it, so if you're bothered by this question, please feel free to post your input.

A little history about my jumping and downsizing
AFF1-3 PD260
AFF4 Manta 288...due to the PD260 being chopped on AFF3, the Manta was the only thing available.
AFF5-jump 40 or so, PD210
Jump41-present Tri 190.

I have jumped a few other canopies in there including a skymaster 230, falcon 230, and a Spectre 230.

I will soon be buying my own gear, hopefully in the next 6 months or so and have a question about the Stiletto 190. I know this is an elliptical canopy and can be very dangerous and unforgiving with mistakes.

My question is, would it be a bad decision to have a Stiletto 190 this soon, lets say, 100 jumps or less, even if I have absolutely no intentions whatsoever of swooping or attempting swooping. I would like to get into swooping, later on though, 500+ jumps.

All of my landings on the Tri 190 have been great with nearly all stand-up. My current exit weight is 205 and if anything will go down as I am trying to lose some weight.

Please give me your advice, good, bad, everything.

Im here to listen, unlike some people out there that already have their minds made up and will not reconsider.

Thanks in advance for the great info!!

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[jsaxton 0]

I personally are happier with a SabreII than the Stiletto

[fpritchett64 0]

The SabreII is actually my other option, how much difference are there in the two, good, bad...I have read the flight characteristics of the two on PD's website, and that is one of the things that had me leaning more toward the Stiletto, mainly because of the flaring power, flat glide, etc.

[jacketsdb23 45]

I like to remind people that sometimes its not the intent of what you are trying to do with the canopy. Its how can you handle it when the unexpected happens. A toggle jerk at 85 feet because you are cut off by someone is going to be much different on an elliptical canopy even at the wing loading you are proposing.

I would not recommend an elliptical canopy to anyone under 300 jumps. I think a manufacturers recommendation of 500 jumps is somewhat conservative for many pilots, but its a blanket policy to protect most people. I also believe to an extent people have the right to make there own choices. I only have 400 some odd jumps and I jump and elliptical. Talk with people you trust and take there advice wisely.

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[DougH 270]

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I will soon be buying my own gear, hopefully in the next 6 months or so and have a question about the Stiletto 190. I know this is an elliptical canopy and can be very dangerous and unforgiving with mistakes.....

.....My question is, would it be a bad decision to have a Stiletto 190 this soon, lets say, 100 jumps or less, even if I have absolutely no intentions whatsoever of swooping or attempting swooping.

Since you anwsered your own question can we considered this thread closed? You typed out your anwser before you even formed the question.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[dragon2 0]

If swooping is your goal, I'd definately buy a sabre2. you get all of the benifits from a modern intermediate canopy that actually has a bit of a recovery arch (more than pilot, safire etc and more than a stiletto!!!) but none of the opening problems associated with HP canopies. I think a Stiletto of any size shouldn't be flown by people with less than a couple hundred jumps and I think there are way better choices to learn to swoop with, start with a sabre2 and stick with it for a couple hundred jumps, maybe get one smaller after that, then maybe you can go straight to a crossfire or similar, skipping a stiletto-like canopy altogether. But as in all things, it's way better to ask knowledgeable people from your own DZ who know you and have seen you jump. But even without knowing you it's very easy to see a sabre2 would be the way to go.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[diablopilot 2]

You'll probably learn more on the Sabre2, and will have an easier time reselling it.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[hookitt 0]

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You'll probably learn more on the Sabre2, and will have an easier time reselling it.

The answer above is a good one.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[fpritchett64 0]

Ok, well looks like I'll be going with the Sabre2 and I'm sure it'll be a fun canopy to fly at my experience level with a lot to learn.

Thanks everyone for everything you had to say!! I really appreciate it.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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My question is, would it be a bad decision to have a Stiletto 190 this soon, lets say, 100 jumps or less, even if I have absolutely no intentions whatsoever of swooping or attempting swooping. I would like to get into swooping, later on though, 500+ jumps.

So why do you want to have it? Is that because its a good deal? Tool for the purpose? What would be your purpose?

[pilot-one 0]

Listen to me. I've jumped the Stiletto 190. It really is a nasty canopy. If you're not in the perfect body position it will slam the shit out of you and then go into a spinning line twist. Drop the Stiletto idea..Trust me.
Personally if I were you I would give the Pilot a try. It opens much nicer than the Sabre 2 and is much more fun to fly. It probably doesn't have the swoop that a Sabre 2 has but for me that doesn't matter.

[JohnDeere 0]

I own 2 sabre 2 170's. I am ordering a new Sabre 2 150 now. It is a great canopy to learn on in general and to learn swooping safer.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[diablopilot 2]

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You'll probably learn more on the Sabre2, and will have an easier time reselling it.

The answer above is a good one.

Occasionally I get it right.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[DanG 1]

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Listen to me. I've jumped the Stiletto 190. It really is a nasty canopy. If you're not in the perfect body position it will slam the shit out of you and then go into a spinning line twist. Drop the Stiletto idea..Trust me.

I've got about 250 jumps on Stiletto 190's, and about 600 on smaller Stilettos, mostly 135's. They are known far and wide as one of the softest opening canopies out there. That and the very flat glide are one of the reasons they are so popular with camera flyers. Saying they will slam the shit out of you and then go into spinning line twists is not exactly accurate. Just because you had a bad opening on one does not make it true for the breed as a whole.

That being said, I would absolutely NOT recommend a Stiletto of any size to the OP. Your body position does have to be solid on deployment, and you do need to be on top of things if a twist starts to develop. The Stiletto is an advanced canopy for advanced pilots. It may not be a Velocity, but it still needs respect.

I think a SabreII would be a better choice for the OP.

- Dan G

[pilot-one 0]

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Saying they will slam the shit out of you and then go into spinning line twists is not exactly accurate. Just because you had a bad opening on one does not make it true for the breed as a whole.

Hello?? what I said was "if your body position isn't perfect it will slam the shit out of you"

The reason I said that is because that's the way it is. I had 2 Stiletto 190's and they both did the same thing.
I agree that if your body position is perfect then it doesn't open too bad.
However if you think a Stiletto 190 opens soft then you've never jumped a Pilot.
The key here to my experience is this is a 190 square foot canopy. Not a 170 or 150. It is probable that the 190 is completely different.

[velvetjo 0]

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Listen to me. I've jumped the Stiletto 190. It really is a nasty canopy. If you're not in the perfect body position it will slam the shit out of you and then go into a spinning line twist. Drop the Stiletto idea..Trust me.

I've got about 250 jumps on Stiletto 190's, and about 600 on smaller Stilettos, mostly 135's. They are known far and wide as one of the softest opening canopies out there. That and the very flat glide are one of the reasons they are so popular with camera flyers. Saying they will slam the shit out of you and then go into spinning line twists is not exactly accurate. Just because you had a bad opening on one does not make it true for the breed as a whole.

That being said, I would absolutely NOT recommend a Stiletto of any size to the OP. Your body position does have to be solid on deployment, and you do need to be on top of things if a twist starts to develop. The Stiletto is an advanced canopy for advanced pilots. It may not be a Velocity, but it still needs respect.

I think a SabreII would be a better choice for the OP.

I'm with DanG - not sure what pilot-one experienced, but ~300 jumps on my Stiletto 190 have been without a single spin-up. An occasional end-cell closure during sub-terminal deployments is about the worst canopy-related problem I've had with it. The one hard opening I had was from a rushed pack job, and in retrospect I think I let the slider get down the lines a little as I was bagging it. I really like the ST190 as a video canopy, and it consistently gives me soft openings with the nose split & tucked into each half of the center cell.

Back to the OP's question: I moved from a PD230 (F-111) to a Stiletto 190 at around 300 jumps. It probably wasn't the smartest transition path, but it worked for me. At <100 jumps, you're likely asking for trouble, since low experience + quick control response = potential for an unintentional low turn. Oddly enough, the one aspect of this canopy that makes it less suitable for modern swooping techniques (short recovery arc) can actually help bail you out during low maneuvers, since the canopy wants to get level quickly once you let it fly. Ironic, eh?

The Sabre2 / Pilot class of canopies sounds like a better bet for your situation. Make sure you demo canopies to find one that you enjoy flying and feel comfortable landing in a variety of conditions. It's worth the time & effort in the long run. Good luck with it!

Lance

[DanG 1]

IMHO, body position has very little to do with hard openings (assuming your body position is reasonable). Body position does, however, have a huge influence on line twists, which can be a serious problem on an elliptical canopy. Packing (especially slider control) has a great deal to do with hard openings.
You're right, I have never jumper a Pilot. I'm not sure how that negates my significant experience with Stilettos in most of the sizes (except the teeny-tiny).

- Dan G

[pilot-one 0]

Try a "head low" postion on your next opening for grins.
Of my 2 Stiletto 190's I packed, repacked and tried everything and even had other people jump both canopies. One remark from the DZO "Instant canopy, this thing sucks"
Maybe I just had a pair of bad canopies but there is no question they had far from soft openings.
I bought both of them new at the same time and sold them both to the same guy for about 1/2 price. If they really worked for me I would not be without them now.